Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[Clark Kellogg]

Do we think that maybe Mr Rivera and Mr Giamatti can get us out of this mess ????

A charismatic leader with a will to win is rare but it seemed to work in Florida once Matthew Tkachuk arrived.
Panthers were a President Trophy winning team that would disappear in the playoffs.
Since Tkachuk got there they march to the beat of his drum.
Look at Mikkola. He wasn’t overly physical when he played here and the next season in Florida he became a terror to play against.
He took on the personality of his teammates.
This team lacks leadership and a will to stand up for each other.

 

[noncents]

A charismatic leader with a will to win is rare but it seemed to work in Florida once Matthew Tkachuk arrived.
Panthers were a President Trophy winning team that would disappear in the playoffs.
Since Tkachuk got there they march to the beat of his drum.
Look at Mikkola. He wasn’t overly physical when he played here and the next season in Florida he became a terror to play against.
He took on the personality of his teammates.
This team lacks leadership and a will to stand up for each other.

such bullshit that we didn't/couldn't pay mikkola.

we have chosen lindgren repeatedly

 

[bleedblue94]

As doom and gloom things look, there are positives. The young wingers in this organization are promising. Laf, Kakko, Cuylle, Berard, Othmann, Perreault. It's why Panarin is going to come up in summer rumors.

It's why Kreider is getting rumored. Smith's name will pop up soon too.

Kakko is the same, but I'd like to think it's for a young defenseman or center and wouldn't be primarily futures as the premium asset. It's such a sore spot and could make them open to moving one of Mika/Troch.

It's also the guys that people actually want and have some value.

There are parts to be optimistic about but one issue is teams do not win with wing depth, nor do other teams trade centers for wingers. This franchise is about a decade behind on developing pipeline depth for the center position and that lack of center depth shows every season and continues to affect annual roster and organizational construction.

Successful orgs don't build there depth with the easiest positional player to acquire and develop, they do it with defense and centers.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

such bullshit that we didn't/couldn't pay mikkola.

we have chosen lindgren repeatedly

Lindgren was a warrior but that page has turned. Should have been traded in the offseason.
He is one hit or fight away from being LTIR.
Also could be demoralizing to the team with the optics’s of him being destroyed and no one on the team coming to his aid.
See Dale Rolfe
See Marion Gaborik
See Artemi Panarin

 

[bleedblue94]

A charismatic leader with a will to win is rare but it seemed to work in Florida once Matthew Tkachuk arrived.
Panthers were a President Trophy winning team that would disappear in the playoffs.
Since Tkachuk got there they march to the beat of his drum.
Look at Mikkola. He wasn’t overly physical when he played here and the next season in Florida he became a terror to play against.
He took on the personality of his teammates.
This team lacks leadership and a will to stand up for each other.

Culture and accountability within the room among teammates goes a long way to this.

If the players/room demand that all players are onboard then those that aren't are ostracized by their teammates and do not need their gm making hollow threats to the players through the media hoping to provoke a positive response.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

So your premise for why the 2024 team is not lazy is that they were not lazy in past years?

Further, you watched the last 8 ish playoff games last year and felt that squad was not lazy or lacked work ethic? Really? They were out worked by the canes and the cats. People keep wanting to say those teams were so much better than us but there is a reason they are better and the in game work ethic between nyr and either of those teams is not even close, that is a part of it. It's also effective bc their cores and their leadership group is bought into that internal standard of work ethic, all nyr is recognized for at this point is a "rotten core" which isn't based simply on age...

I am sick of the lindgren thing. Christ, trade him and you still have the same shit constructed roster with the same shit entitled core, and the same shit country club environment. You are so focused on one f***ing player you miss the forest looking at a tree.

They beat the Canes and deserved to win that series so...

I don't think the Panthers series was a lack of effort and to even insinuate as much is really just bad analysis or at least a dishonest presentation of reality. Here is the stone cold truth: the Panthers were just flat out BETTER than the Rangers were.

There were pretty distinct gaps in certain areas between the teams (most notably, their top line vs the Rangers top line and the fact that they had one bad body in their top 4 instead of the 2 that the Rangers had and even then Ekblad is a better player than Lindgren and Trouba.)

Fun fact: Lines 2-4 for the Rangers outscored Lines 2-4 for the Cats in that series. Makes it pretty clear where the discrepancy was in that series, it was the Mika line vs the Barkov line (which Lavi kept going back to for what ever reason, the Trocheck line actually posted plus numbers against them in what time they faced them.) Z's got demolished and that was really the difference in the series on a macro level at least. Truthfully it wasn't very close after the 2nd period of game 3 outside of a few spurts here and there. That series went exactly how it should have (a loss in 6.)

Lastly no one said that Lindgren was/is the only move they needed to make. It should be the first one they make for a variety of reasons, the main one being that hes a shit player playing way to high in the lineup and if the team should be working to get rid of shit players regardless of what the locker room atmosphere is. Anyone with eyes will tell you that they're probably going to need to move more significant bodies as well and that they've got a mix that is no longer working. I said as much in that exact post that you're responding to but you seem more interested in arguing for the sake of it instead of actually addressing things that I actually said.

If they want to try to turn things around or at least position themselves the best to do so immediately (because they aren't going to punt the season in December as much as people may want them to) the easiest way to do that is to get rid if your biggest wart who just so happens to have no trade protection. At this point it isn't even about the return. Just do that and go back to the d pairings you had before he returned from injury and see where that gets you. That team was playing pretty well.

Do I think that alone will be enough? No I don't, I've seen how this team reacted to the memo but thats the hand they have at the moment.

 

[n8]

Part of the prob is that damn 1 timer is a move that is expected and broadcast and teams adjust for it
Need variety and show it once in a while not every friggin time

Previously true (last season) but we've gone full circle. He's so ineffective at the one timer that the defense doesn't cheat any more. We see Zib WHIFF. F***ING HARD. ALL. THE. TIME. It's like reverse Steph Curry when the other players go up court before the shot sinks, except now it's like "oh, Zibanejad is shooting? Lol, never mind." The most recent goal Zib score because he was like "naw, this shot is landing. I'm gonna bail. Oh shit, what a killer "fake" and then he got it in with a wrister.

 

[QJL]

There is a thread on Reddit that says Trocheck and Kreider are on Team USA over Caufield and Thompson. Wild stuff.

 

[bleedblue94]

They beat the Canes and deserved to win that series so...

I don't think the Panthers series was a lack of effort and to even insinuate as much is really just bad analysis or at least a dishonest presentation of reality. Here is the stone cold truth: the Panthers were just flat out BETTER than the Rangers were.

There were pretty distinct gaps in certain areas between the teams (most notably, their top line vs the Rangers top line and the fact that they had one bad body in their top 4 instead of the 2 that the Rangers had and even then Ekblad is a better player than Lindgren and Trouba.)

Fun fact: Lines 2-4 for the Rangers outscored Lines 2-4 for the Cats in that series. Makes it pretty clear where the discrepancy was in that series, it was the Mika line vs the Barkov line (which Lavi kept going back to for what ever reason, the Trocheck line actually posted plus numbers against them in what time they faced them.) Z's got demolished and that was really the difference in the series on a macro level at least. Truthfully it wasn't very close after the 2nd period of game 3 outside of a few spurts here and there. That series went exactly how it should have (a loss in 6.)

Lastly no one said that Lindgren was/is the only move they needed to make. It should be the first one they make for a variety of reasons, the main one being that hes a shit player playing way to high in the lineup and if the team should be working to get rid of shit players regardless of what the locker room atmosphere is. Anyone with eyes will tell you that they're probably going to need to move more significant bodies as well and that they've got a mix that is no longer working. I said as much in that exact post that you're responding to but you seem more interested in arguing for the sake of it instead of actually addressing things that I actually said.

If they want to try to turn things around or at least position themselves the best to do so immediately (because they aren't going to punt the season in December as much as people may want them to) the easiest way to do that is to get rid if your biggest wart who just so happens to have no trade protection. At this point it isn't even about the return. Just do that and go back to the d pairings you had before he returned from injury and see where that gets you. That team was playing pretty well.

Do I think that alone will be enough? No I don't, I've seen how this team reacted to the memo but thats the hand they have at the moment.

I stopped at the first sentence. Almost universally people stated that nyr did not deserve to win that series and they got saved by elite goaltending (again) and kreider having some magic in the 3rd of game 6. That team was cooked in that series, don't try to rewrite things.

 

[bleedblue94]

Part of the prob is that damn 1 timer is a move that is expected and broadcast and teams adjust for it
Need variety and show it once in a while not every friggin time

Parts of that issue are that he is such a poor passer and there is no other legit shot option on that unit so even if he tries to mix in some variety it all comes back to the fact his one timer is inevitably the weapon that kept teams honest in coverage bc they had to respect his shot.

This again goes back to my critique 2 years ago that a rh trocheck in the bumper basically meant/means that your only option to shift the pk box is to go to Mika to shoot it or go for the kreider shot pass tip.

A lh shot in the slot would in theory allow Mika to control pass to that bumper shooter, or even slap pass or onetime pass to the bumper for a shot threat and make the d stay honest about shifting away from Mika on the dot to cover the slot threat.

Right now the slot /bumper is only a threat on high tips (but that requires point shots) or on the bang bang play with kreider off the goal line for the one timer, but a pre-scout can identify tells to this play before kreider even receives the puck to pass it to the bumper area. Easily defendable

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I stopped at the first sentence. Almost universally people stated that nyr did not deserve to win that series and they got saved by elite goaltending (again) and kreider having some magic in the 3rd of game 6. That team was cooked in that series, don't try to rewrite things.

Oops.

The series was basically a microcosm of what the teams were. Hurricanes doing what they did with zone time and shot volume in place of quality and the Rangers getting the share of quality.

I don't need to rewrite history, I remember how that series went but it seems like you don't.

They controlled the 3rd period of game 6 which led directly to that comeback. They were in trouble had they lost that game but they didn't and it wasn't just Igor that won it for them. Carolina turtled and opened the door, but the Rangers tore it off the hinges and burned down their house. They 100% deserved to win that game.

Igor was kind of a dud in games 4 and 5 btw where he posted -GSAA's.

G4:MoneyPuck.com
G5: MoneyPuck.com


G4 in particular was very winnable. G5 was just a shit performance all around, they deserved what they got there.

Anyway this is off topic now and you don't seem interested in having an actual conversation in good faith so I'm out.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

“nobody threw a spear at Jack Hughes and then used his pelt to build shelter”

 

[kovazub94]

I have no idea what this is. Probably some Rick and Morty monstrosity. Thanks for contributing to the conversation.

Eh, the joke is on you. Via this reference you missed a pretty good evaluation of the psychological resilience of the leadership core of the team.

 

[kovazub94]

Kakko is producing halfway decent totals this year. Let him cook.

Yeah, let him continue to cook here and then another team will get a tasty meal when he signs elsewhere as a UFA after one more year…
If the deal is there - he’s not untouchable

 

[bernmeister]

I honestly don't think there are gonna be any coaches in the NHL who are going to "hold players accountable" like ya'll would like

every coach is going to try to play his vets through it. Oh maybe they'll get benched here and there during a game but coaches know they need their vets to perform and scratching them or demoting them to the 4th line isn't something they see as a solution

yr observation is correct but they are wrong
bold = fallacy

 

[RangerBoy]

Trouba is upset from last summer's situation. The players are upset. The players don't like how the Drury subtext was handled.

Just lose. Carnage. Pittsburgh is showing some signs by winning a few games. Seattle had a big win in Carolina. Just lose.

 

[LionsHeart]

I like how Kakko has been one of the best forwards this year, the vets around him have pretty much quit on the season in December, and HES the one who might be on the chopping block because the team needs a change. I’m not saying he’s untouchable, but the message this sends is so shite.

 

[bernmeister]

I have tweaked what I said earlier, consider this final:

Rs need to move Zib, who has nmc at 8.5. Physically ok, we paid him to be 1C to have magic w/Kreider. Mika now full snakebit mode but right chemistry solution could work
MZ to VAN = he has legit shot at Cup + fellow Swede EP = comfy, so he waives

Now, VAN is not/should not be doing any favors
1st requirement is Zib max retention, 8.5 to 4.25 per, which means if Zib craps out, unlikely but possible, he can be retained once more and sent to bottom feeder

2nd requirement is VAN has to get value back
That has to also recognize JTM is a solid talent but as we are now seeing is not immune to insisting on when/if he will take off, etc
we will take JTM back and ask him if he wants to stay, or would like to be relocated again, in which case we will attempt to reasonably accommodate if nec


Rs keep younger youth [Schneider]
sell high on Fox who = ideal top pair partner and helps while Hronek is out


balancing, this is what I have

Fox 9.5 + Zib 4.25 + next 2 Ranger 2nds [2027 + 2028?]
for
Miller + Raty + Juulsen + injured Forbot + 2 VAN 1sts anytime over next 5 yrs

that helps both teams
'nucks improve immediate win now esp if EP gets Zib going

Rs have structural cap improvement, add quality + depth

 

[DevilDog99]

This is a job for Superman
if he is unavailable, you may call bern

HOWEV, I want an acknowledgement from most of you, that I was right, that I called it correctly in real time, and as long as there is a hard cap, we need to listen to bern and routinely repurpose vets [few exceptions notwithstanding], selling them high to get quality youth, which extends our window and manages cap

I am not our most knowledgeable, or best, etc poster, but I am our most creative, providing outside the box solutions.
Love is given, respect is earned, and I have earned respect for calling it as I did, when I did, and I deserve props from you all for that.



dude, don't be half assed, go full butt cheeks
I have correctly called need to have Rempe up here now, growing pains and all.

Now disconnect from the underline that is holding you back.
The truth shall set you free.




per usual signif agree except on da bold
Any KK deal that is crazy good = massive improvement has to be considered.
Howev, inclusion to move Trouba is a no.
We can ditch JT w/o taking a hit on sacrificing KK



NO
no effin what about POs.
Make the correct moves replacing vets w/quality youth even if we overpay on specific trades, sacrifice Fox now to sell high before he gets any slower, and eat a lot of retention.

So we are then young, w/energy, and motivated.
We get into post season, great if not ok we are ready/positioned going forward




yes not worth it
just ditch for whatev on those 2 w/min deadwood coming back


Part of the prob is that damn 1 timer is a move that is expected and broadcast and teams adjust for it
Need variety and show it once in a while not every friggin time

His one timer is also terrible. Stop listening to Joe and actually watch it. He has one of the worst one-timers ive seen.

 

[Synergy27]

These bozos probably have the same take as the rest of the league. Did no one watch the Florida series last year? He was one of the chief reasons we lost.

I rarely if ever listen to this podcast. I listened yesterday and their take on the Rangers was awful. Really bad analysis of the on ice problems.

 

[McRanger92]

I rarely if ever listen to this podcast. I listened yesterday and their take on the Rangers was awful. Really bad analysis of the on ice problems.

They don’t watch the games

 

[DevilDog99]

A charismatic leader with a will to win is rare but it seemed to work in Florida once Matthew Tkachuk arrived.
Panthers were a President Trophy winning team that would disappear in the playoffs.
Since Tkachuk got there they march to the beat of his drum.
Look at Mikkola. He wasn’t overly physical when he played here and the next season in Florida he became a terror to play against.
He took on the personality of his teammates.
This team lacks leadership and a will to stand up for each other.

Look no further than your leadership: Mika, Fox, Panarin, Kreider.

Vs.

Messier and Graves

 

[leetch99]

A lot of close calls then

LMAO....and that is what starts a player fight in practice which I called yesterday....soon enough we will have one . I did predict it to be Miller and Shesty if memory serves me correctly .

 

[DevilDog99]

They don’t watch the games

Neither do half the guys on this board- looking at all the people posting their ridiculous charts lmfao. One guy even tried to show how Zibinejad was good.

 

[leetch99]

Look no further than your leadership: Mika, Fox, Panarin, Kreider.

Vs.

Messier and Graves

Hmmm....don't overlook Larmer-Tikk-Lowe-Wells-Nemchinov-Beukeboom and others as well . They were a vet laden team and it took that many to contain Kovalev .