Roster Building Thread - Part XII

[Atax]

Bob is making more than that and he signed 6 years ago.

Theres no question he's worth more than 9.5
And no reason to needlessly lose him when we can afford 10.5

Im letting him walk if he wants more than 10.5.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Im letting him walk if he wants more than 10.5.

Im not disagreeing with you. I'm pointing out 10.5 is the best offer we should and can do.
It pushes him above price, lets him "reset the goalie market" and rewards him. It also lets our guys know "be the top 3 in the position and we'll pay you"

 

[GAGLine]

Bob is making more than that and he signed 6 years ago.

Theres no question he's worth more than 9.5
And no reason to needlessly lose him when we can afford 10.5

I think the general consensus at the time was that Bob got too much, and he had several years where it looked like a huge mistake.

Since he signed, the only goalie that has gotten more than 8.5 per year is Vasi (9.5), and he was coming off a cup win. There are only 6 goalies in the league with a cap hit higher than 6.4 mil, and that includes Price.

So, I don't necessarily agree that Shesty is worth more than 9.5. I'm sure he'll end up getting more than that, though, since we don't have any other options.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I think the general consensus at the time was that Bob got too much, and he had several years where it looked like a huge mistake.

Since he signed, the only goalie that has gotten more than 8.5 per year is Vasi (9.5), and he was coming off a cup win. There are only 6 goalies in the league with a cap hit higher than 6.4 mil, and that includes Price.

So, I don't necessarily agree that Shesty is worth more than 9.5. I'm sure he'll end up getting more than that, though, since we don't have any other options.

The general consensus was that bob got too much, when the cap was lower.
Bob was at that moment their highest paid player.
He would be 2nd on the rangers, and if the cap climbs the way I expect, it won't be an issue.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Did you see the point about kakko either explodes and puts up points, or we move him?
Its an either/or. If he puts up 58 points somehow, with his level of defense, then we'd do that in a heartbeart. Do I think thats likely, no. Do I think theres a possibility of it happening, yes?

I did see that, but I'd be happy if he puts up 35 points this year...I think that's more realistic. Even on the miraculous chance he scores 58, which I don't think he's capable of, it would be fools gold. He's shown that he is who he is as far as his skating is concerned & that's going to hold him back from making a big leap. It's only going to hinder him more & more as he gets older. Which is why he's not a player you lock up for 8 years.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I did see that, but I'd be happy if he puts up 35 points this year...I think that's more realistic. Even on the miraculous chance he scores 58, which I don't think he's capable of, it would be fools gold. He's shown that he is who is he as far as his skating is concerned & that's going to hold him back from making a big leap. It's only going to hinder him more & more as he gets older. Which is why he's not a player you lock up for 8 years.

I dont see how it would be fools gold? His speed is poor, his skating(edges) is fine. He's strong in tight, and solid at puck possession. A power forward typically develops later, and thats what he really is offensively. He's big, and plays down low.
He's put up 40 points at 15 minutes of ice time. Similar to laf. The second laf got more ice time, his points went up. I see the exact same opportunity for him.

and I'm advocating for 8years x 4 million, not the other way around.
And again, I said "its not likely but the shot is there" Lavi has shown a willingness to give him the chance.

When he's played a legit center, he put up .5 points per game in 15 minutes of ice time.
I see him do alot of positive things that are necessary to win in the playoffs. If he drives to the net more and gets his shot off quicker, he's probably putting up 25 goals.

 

[bhamill]

I think Perreault is considerably ahead of Othmann in areas such as hockey IQ that moving him is not going to happen.

My sense is that some people here have always had an inflated idea of what Othmann might become. He's not likely ever going to be a 1st line winger on a good team. He's more in the way of a middle 6 winger on a good team--kind of a Dustin Brown, Brenden Morrow type. He should become a good player but he's not going to be a star. He might top out with a 30 goal season or two--50 point range and if that happens that's a win for where we took him in the first round.

All that said the Rangers must think he's fairly close considering he's the only player that got to play in all 6 preseason games. No one else played more than 4. He might still be up if he could have stood out last night against the Islanders playing with Trocheck and Lafreniere. Often in those 6 games I thought his play away from the puck left a little to be desired. If he plays all season in Hartford also one would hope he gets at least into the 50's if not the 60's in points and does more at even strength.

He is tradable however for the right price.

Perreault absolutely has first line potential. He is a point producing machine. That was on display in 22-23 with the USNTDP and in 23-24 at BC and for the USA at the WJC. He's one of those guys that the puck seems to follow around and he displays traits similar to Panarin and Adam Fox.

It would take an awful lot I think for the Rangers to move him. He has the potential to be better than Lafreniere.

Yup. The impatience with Othmann is frankly insane. He’s a mid first round pick. Hahaha. He’s about where you want him. Kreider, also a mid 1st rounder, in his 21 year old season (where Oth is now) split his time between the AHL (48 games) and NHL (23 games). He had 2G, 1A in the NHL… let’s get a grip on the “we need to trade him” talk. He’s certainly not untouchable in the right deal, but there’s absolutely NO need to move him.

Perrault has potential to be a whole other level, like you said. IMO he’s an absolute steal and will make up for Kakko, who is still going to be, actually IS, a solid middle sixer though NEVER going live up to his draft position. If you reversed their draft positions we’d be happy with them both right now. Hahahaha.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I dont see how it would be fools gold? His speed is poor, his skating(edges) is fine. He's strong in tight, and solid at puck possession. A power forward typically develops later, and thats what he really is offensively. He's big, and plays down low.
He's put up 40 points at 15 minutes of ice time. Similar to laf. The second laf got more ice time, his points went up. I see the exact same opportunity for him.

and I'm advocating for 8years x 4 million, not the other way around.
And again, I said "its not likely but the shot is there" Lavi has shown a willingness to give him the chance.

When he's played a legit center, he put up .5 points per game in 15 minutes of ice time.
I see him do alot of positive things that are necessary to win in the playoffs. If he drives to the net more and gets his shot off quicker, he's probably putting up 25 goals.

I've argued my reasons why I'm not a fan of his ad nauseam, so I don't want to beat dead horse, but he regressed massively last year where most of those strengths you listed were non existent. I don't want to hear it was injury related, because he looked worse BEFORE the injury. He wasn't strong on the puck, he was constantly falling down or being knocked over with the slightest contact.

The initial post you said 8 x $5M not $4. $4m is a decent number for him if he's a consistent 40 point player, which I believe is his ceiling. I just don't want to lock him up long term, meaning anything more than 3 years.

 

[TGWL]

Othmann isn't a better skater than Kakko. Othmann is hustler and can get to a good speed because he keeps going, despite not having the best stride or edge work.

 

[bhamill]

If everyone knows exactly what the Rangers PP is, why can't they stop it during the regular season?

Because they see it for one game, typically, then prepare for the next team. When you see it for a few nights in a row, with a week to concentrate on it with no other power plays to worry about facing, they actually have a real opportunity to adjust.
Also, if I was just that Fox was hurt, why was PP1 on an absolute tear, WITH him hurt, prior to us going 2 for 27 in the last 10 games? There’s more than one factor here. Fox being hurt, PP1 just plain going cold, teams being better the deeper you go AND teams having time to adjust to an unchanging configuration and predictable execution ARE ALL FACTORS.

 

[MrAlmost]

so let me understand this logic.
Berard isn't good enough to take anyones spot, but lets move kakko and play berard because its "out of the box".

For all the hate this board has for Kakko, replacing him is harder than anyone realizes. He's a plus defender AND when healthy puts up about .5 points per game in 15 minutes of ice time at 5v5.
Thats 5v5 offense (which is our weakness)
And his cap hit is under 3m.

Name a single player in the NHL who does all 3 things with a smaller cap hit?

You want to move lindgren because Mancini had a great camp and looks ready? I agree that he looked ready, but you know whats even better? Giving him one more full season in the NHL coming in and playing his natural side when we move Trouba. Sheltering him properly.

I also think Lindgren might not be as washed as people think. He was a plus defender for multiple years, and while his style puts time on the body, he's not 30+. I could see him having a bounce back year.

Also for anyone who gives a crap about losing to the islanders, its pre-season. Last year at the end of the preseason EVERYONE on the board was screaming to move laf. Howd that turn out?
The players who have spots are mostly just ensuring they don't get hurt, and I'm 100% fine with that.

If Mancini is ready, just play him. Seems pointless to make the Rangers a worse team to "shelter" a player cause there is this idea that everyone needs x amount of time before they can play in the NHL.

Also, I wasn't clear in my post on 2 points. One, I would package Kakko and Lindgren to get a better center/rw. So Berard would still not be in the lineup. I don't hate kakko, but we have a package with him and lindgren that can get us a better player. If he scores great, but exploring what a trade might look like isn't the same thing as hating him. It's not that dramatic.

2, I meant we got caved in again and it being by the Islanders didn't matter as much as the getting shit kicked did. Haha

Mackey was already waived. If the Rangers are worried about losing Robertson to waivers, they may send Mancini down since he is exempt, rather than risk losing Ruhwedel. Ruhwedel isn't great, but he provides experienced depth.

Berard, Edstrom and Rempe are all waiver exempt. Any of them could be sent down to begin the season, though I expect the first will be Berard. I'm guessing the only reason he's still with the team is because of Panarin's injury.

Sending down Berard and Mancini gets us to 14 forwards and 8 dmen. The last cut will depend on Lindgren. If he is ready for opening night, I would expect one of Robertson or Ruhwedel to be waived (whichever they feel is less likely to be claimed). If Lindgren isn't ready, I would expect one of Edstrom or Rempe to be sent down.

If Mancini and one of Edstrom/Rempe get sent down, I know a lot of people will lose their minds, but them being waiver exempt is going to work against them. Drury is going to use that to ensure we don't lose any of our limited depth. All of those players will likely play a significant number of NHL games this season, regardless.

It's possible that Vesey is placed on LTIR and we carry an extra player to fill that spot, but then we won't be accruing any cap space to start the season.


In what way has Robertson shown that he is ready? Not being worse than Ruhwedel isn't an accomplishment. The only thing that may keep him on the roster is his waiver status.

Sorry that was in reference to Mancini. Not robertson really. Maybe Robertson clears, but I doubt it cause he is as good as Ruhwedel and still young. Staying with the NHL team, practicing with NHL players, getting NHL coaches all helped Jones. It could help Robertson too.

 

[MrAlmost]

If everyone knows exactly what the Rangers PP is, why can't they stop it during the regular season?



Robertson has been regressing in Hartford per the posters here who watch him often. How does that translate to him looking like a possible asset?

I didn't say asset. And I didn't think he regressed. I feel like people are needlessly down on him for not blowing the AHL away. Same way some are down on Kakko. I think he can be a 7 and I think a lot of other teams would too. Like Emberson.

And yes i know my post is trading Kakko. I think he can be a part of a package to get a real good player, but I don't think Kakko is bad.

 

[TGWL]

I didn't say asset. And I didn't think he regressed. I feel like people are needlessly down on him for not blowing the AHL away. Same way some are down on Kakko. I think he can be a 7 and I think a lot of other teams would too. Like Emberson.

And yes i know my post is trading Kakko. I think he can be a part of a package to get a real good player, but I don't think Kakko is bad.

The organization came close to not sending him a qualifying offer. (So the media says)

I'd say it's more than just fans who soured on him because he didn't blow the AHL away. The organization didn't see improvements and saw other players passing him on the depth chart.

 

[kovazub94]

I'm not against moving on from Lindgren if we can find a suitable replacement, but this is the problem with trading away picks and prospects. There's no one in our system who can reliably replace him next season. That leaves free agency or trade, and the options for those are pretty thin.

With all due respect we have Fox, Lindgren, Miller, Schneider, Jones and now seems Mancini also. That’s quite a stretch to complain about trades with such of stable of D core that came from the system (yeah, I know some got via trades rather than drafting but they still came through the system since they were prospects).

 

[Ruggs225]

Bob is making more than that and he signed 6 years ago.

Theres no question he's worth more than 9.5
And no reason to needlessly lose him when we can afford 10.5

Yeah and all the current good goalies just got paid under 9 this year. Thats the market. Just bc another team overpaid doesnt mean we should.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Yeah and all the current good goalies just got paid under 9 this year. Thats the market. Just bc another team overpaid doesnt mean we should.

but thats what we do.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Flames are waiving 2019 1st round pick Jakob Pelletier today. He hasn't played much in the NHL yet but had 111PTS in 119GP in the AHL, he's a LW/C. If we could possibly pick him up, maybe send Berard down since he doesn't require waivers and give him a look in the Panarin spot. Worth a shot

 

[Ruggs225]

but thats what we do.

And thats why we dont win. Its why we didnt win Lundqvist. He also took up too much cap. If he came in around $6m instead of $8 we win a cup.

 

[LOFIN]

Flames are waiving 2019 1st round pick Jakob Pelletier today. He hasn't played much in the NHL yet but had 111PTS in 119GP in the AHL, he's a LW/C. If we could possibly pick him up, maybe send Berard down since he doesn't require waivers and give him a look in the Panarin spot. Worth a shot

Seems too good on paper to be waived, especially by the Flames in their situation. What don't we know?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

And thats why we dont win. Its why we didnt win Lundqvist. He also took up too much cap. If he came in around $6m instead of $8 we win a cup.

Oh absolutely, that 2M easily wins us the cup. Thanks a lot hank.

 

[GAGLine]

With all due respect we have Fox, Lindgren, Miller, Schneider, Jones and now seems Mancini also. That’s quite a stretch to complain about trades with such of stable of D core that came from the system (yeah, I know some got via trades rather than drafting but they still came through the system since they were prospects).

Except for Mancini, all of those players were acquired during the rebuild, and Mancini is still unproven. I'm talking about what we've done since then. We've wasted a lot of picks on rentals, picks that could have been used to draft or trade for a dman to replace Lindgren.

Because we don't have that player, we are forced to either re-sign Lindgren or replace him with someone who will almost certainly be equally expensive.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Seems too good on paper to be waived, especially by the Flames in their situation. What don't we know?

They have too many forwards and his only spot could maybe be on the 4th line and he's undersized (5'9 170). I don't get why not seek a trade though, but based on what I've read on social media there doesn't seem to be any red flag or off ice issue that led to this. I love Berard, but I doubt he's ready to step in to Panarin's spot in the lineup, might as well take a flyer on this guy and send Berard who's waiver eligible down. I doubt he makes it to us though

 

[Ruggs225]

Oh absolutely, that 2M easily wins us the cup. Thanks a lot hank.

That $2m could have gotten a shutdown center, or enough cap to add a top 4 dman at deadline.

Not taking away from Hank, but with his contract it was always a struggle to put together soldi bottom six or top 4.

Its why you cant put too much cap into a goalie. The return isnt worth it at a certain point.

 

[DanielBrassard]

That $2m could have gotten a shutdown center, or enough cap to add a top 4 dman at deadline.

Not taking away from Hank, but with his contract it was always a struggle to put together soldi bottom six or top 4.

Its why you cant put too much cap into a goalie. The return isnt worth it at a certain point.

If you have 5 or 6 top players who are consistently outplaying their contracts like Florida did then it’s possible. But the Rangers are not in that position.

 

[Clark Kellogg]