Roster Building Thread - Part XII(Training Camp/Preseason)

[Machinehead]

We are a clear contender in every facet, our problem is that our highest paid skaters arent our best players in the playoffs. 1 goal in the ECF for Panarin (final minute of game 6 no less), 0 goals for Zibanejad. Kreider a non-factor as well. Fox was hurt/exposed because the rest of the defense is inept or gutless. We get swept by Florida without Igor, Trocheck & Lafreniere's contributions.

We're as good as anyone if our core guys would play to their abilities against a contender that isnt Carolina. The supporting cast will only be younger and better this season. A meaningful addition on defense is necessary. The NMC boys arent beating the allegations.

"We're good enough except our top players aren't good enough."

They have one more run before we all have to admit that it's a feature, not a bug. I think that's pretty reasonable.

 

[IDvsEGO]

On a 4th line Rempe. In a top 9 role Othmann. For obvious reasons. Maybe a playoff exception, but Othmann shouldn’t be here unless he’s getting a real opportunity.

Berard / Edstrom can take what they earn.

Othmann is either in our top 9 or traded.
It was reported he’s not playing in the ahl again.

 

[McRanger92]

"We're good enough except our top players aren't good enough."

They have one more run before we all have to admit that it's a feature, not a bug. I think that's pretty reasonable.

They are good enough if they play to the potential we all know they have. Im not sure why thats outlandish. Panarin and Zibanejad in particular need to do some soul searching. Trouba is a lost cause. The best thing he could do for the franchise is keep his mouth shut when his role is further reduced. You are correct that this is the end of the Panarin/Trouba led roster. Both could easily be gone after the season.

 

[Machinehead]

They are good enough if they play to the potential we all know they have. Im not sure why thats outlandish. Panarin and Zibanejad in particular need to do some soul searching. Trouba is a lost cause. The best thing he could do for the franchise is keep his mouth shut when his role is further reduced. You are correct that this is the end of the Panarin/Trouba led roster. Both could easily be gone after the season.

Maybe I'll buy that for one more postseason. If it's the same thing, I'm gonna default to

Potential and $2.90 gets you on the bus. You're as good as you play after a large sample. That's why even I don't buy Carolina despite their sterling analytics.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Maybe I'll buy that for one more postseason. If it's the same thing, I'm gonna default to

View attachment 903424

Potential and $2.90 gets you on the bus. You're as good as you play after a large sample. That's why even I don't buy Carolina despite their sterling analytics.

The thing is though, once your team hits a certain level of talent, once you get into the playoffs it’s about health, matchups and luck.

We have that level of talent.

 

[Machinehead]

The thing is though, once your team hits a certain level of talent, once you get into the playoffs it’s about health, matchups and luck.

We have that level of talent.

If they repeatedly can't perform, then we don't have that level of talent.

You're as good as you play.

 

[McRanger92]

Maybe I'll buy that for one more postseason. If it's the same thing, I'm gonna default to

View attachment 903424

Potential and $2.90 gets you on the bus. You're as good as you play after a large sample. That's why even I don't buy Carolina despite their sterling analytics.

I dont disagree. Is it just a factor of Panarin being "soft"? Mika isnt a great 5v5 player in general, but why does Panarin suck in the playoffs despite being our best even strength player for 82 games. Im honestly asking, because its confusing, especially when his two linemates were forces through all 3 rounds. Panarin has obviously had his big moments but the problem is that they are "moments" and not consistently effective play. Im more than happy to ride it out this season to see what happens, then you retool without the albatrosses weighing us down. hand the team over to Lafreniere/Fox and the littany of young players we have in that age range. the Rangers arent going away anytime soon but the team should unquestionably be different in 2025 if they fail again.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I dont disagree. Is it just a factor of Panarin being "soft"? Mika isnt a great 5v5 player in general, but why does Panarin suck in the playoffs despite being our best even strength player for 82 games. Im honestly asking, because its confusing, especially when his two linemates were forces through all 3 rounds. Panarin has obviously had his big moments but the problem is that they are "moments" and not consistently effective play. Im more than happy to ride it out this season to see what happens, then you retool without the albatrosses weighing us down. hand the team over to Lafreniere/Fox and the littany of young players we have in that age range. the Rangers arent going away anytime soon but the team should unquestionably be different in 2025 if they fail again.

Playoff games are played tighter and more physical. His game thrives in open spaces. You have more time to prepare for player tendencies and Panarin while creative relies on specific things (the hard stop at the blue line)
He changed his game in the regular season last year but went right back to staying outside in the playoffs.

 

[McRanger92]

Playoff games are played tighter and more physical. His game thrives in open spaces. You have more time to prepare for player tendencies and Panarin while creative relies on specific things (the hard stop at the blue line)
He changed his game in the regular season last year but went right back to staying outside in the playoffs.

It probably as simple as this. And equally disheartening.

 

[Machinehead]

I dont disagree. Is it just a factor of Panarin being "soft"? Mika isnt a great 5v5 player in general, but why does Panarin suck in the playoffs despite being our best even strength player for 82 games. Im honestly asking, because its confusing, especially when his two linemates were forces through all 3 rounds. Panarin has obviously had his big moments but the problem is that they are "moments" and not consistently effective play. Im more than happy to ride it out this season to see what happens, then you retool without the albatrosses weighing us down. hand the team over to Lafreniere/Fox and the littany of young players we have in that age range. the Rangers arent going away anytime soon but the team should unquestionably be different in 2025 if they fail again.

There's three players with championship-caliber talent on this team.

Fox is fine.

Igor is a goalie, so I don't care, and I don't feel like rehashing that argument.

Then there's Panarin, who is very obviously not in the playoffs what he is in the regular season.

That's it. It's not that great compared to the other top teams.

Zibanejad is not that guy. People warned for years that he's not. He's not any better than Trocheck. Kreider is a secondary contributor and he's a good one. Probably worth keeping. He was never a guy that should be a top 3-5 player on a Cup winner, and honestly, at $6.5m, he isn't paid anywhere near like he's supposed to be one. So basically, I don't see Kreider as a problem, I see not having a better wing in postseason hockey as a problem (maybe Lafreniere going forward but still).

Speaking of Laf, he's not there yet. I hope he will be but this is what we're working with in 2025. They're just not that good. Sorry.

Meanwhile, Florida and Edmonton arguably have 4 of the top 10 players in the world between them. That's what we're competing with. And Florida's secondary guys like Reinhart and Verhaeghe would be our best forwards not named Panarin. There's honestly no comparison.

I think there's a notion that with a healthy Fox and the 120 point version of Panarin, we win the Cup. Probably not. We weren't particularly close to Florida. The only game we played well in was game 2 and that was razor thin. The other five games were spent almost entirely in our zone, one of which we stole. They easily could have swept us.

I'm not saying the Rangers are terrible. They're probably a top 5 team. On paper, I think some of the other four (if not all of them) are just obviously better. And at that point, like I said yesterday, you kind of have to step back and assess the direction you're going in.

With the roster and the salary cap where it's at now, it makes sense to ride out 2025 and see if something just happens. If not, they need to move in a significantly different direction going in 2026.

 

[McRanger92]

There's three players with championship-caliber talent on this team.

Fox is fine.

Igor is a goalie, so I don't care, and I don't feel like rehashing that argument.

Then there's Panarin, who is very obviously not in the playoffs what he is in the regular season.

That's it. It's not that great compared to the other top teams.

Zibanejad is not that guy. People warned for years that he's not. He's not any better than Trocheck. Kreider is a secondary contributor and he's a good one. Probably worth keeping. He was never a guy that should be a top 3-5 player on a Cup winner, and honestly, at $6.5m, he isn't paid anywhere near like he's supposed to be one. So basically, I don't see Kreider as a problem, I see not having a better wing in postseason hockey as a problem (maybe Lafreniere going forward but still).

Speaking of Laf, he's not there yet. I hope he will be but this is what we're working with in 2025. They're just not that good. Sorry.

Meanwhile, Florida and Edmonton arguably have 4 of the top 10 players in the world between them. That's what we're competing with. And Florida's secondary guys like Reinhart and Verhaeghe would be our best forwards not named Panarin. There's honestly no comparison.

I think there's a notion that with a healthy Fox and the 120 point version of Panarin, we win the Cup. Probably not. We weren't particularly close to Florida. The only game we played well in was game 2 and that was razor thin. The other five games were spent almost entirely in our zone, one of which we stole. They easily could have swept us.

I'm not saying the Rangers are terrible. They're probably a top 5 team. On paper, I think some of the other four (if not all of them) are just obviously better. And at that point, like I said yesterday, you kind of have to step back and assess the direction you're going in.

With the roster and the salary cap where it's at now, it makes sense to ride out 2025 and see if something just happens. If not, they need to move in a significantly different direction going in 2026.

My take on the current team is that the forward group is good and deep with areas of continued improvement up and down the lineup. I think the existential issue of this roster is a lack of modern defensemen, and a refusal to use the D they have in roles that play to their strengths. Im partial to Drury but his handling of Lindgren and Trouba situations could get him shitcanned if he doesnt make a fairly aggressive move to improve the defense.

 

[NYR Viper]

There's three players with championship-caliber talent on this team.

Fox is fine.

Igor is a goalie, so I don't care, and I don't feel like rehashing that argument.

Then there's Panarin, who is very obviously not in the playoffs what he is in the regular season.

That's it. It's not that great compared to the other top teams.

Zibanejad is not that guy. People warned for years that he's not. He's not any better than Trocheck. Kreider is a secondary contributor and he's a good one. Probably worth keeping. He was never a guy that should be a top 3-5 player on a Cup winner, and honestly, at $6.5m, he isn't paid anywhere near like he's supposed to be one. So basically, I don't see Kreider as a problem, I see not having a better wing in postseason hockey as a problem (maybe Lafreniere going forward but still).

Speaking of Laf, he's not there yet. I hope he will be but this is what we're working with in 2025. They're just not that good. Sorry.

Meanwhile, Florida and Edmonton arguably have 4 of the top 10 players in the world between them. That's what we're competing with. And Florida's secondary guys like Reinhart and Verhaeghe would be our best forwards not named Panarin. There's honestly no comparison.

I think there's a notion that with a healthy Fox and the 120 point version of Panarin, we win the Cup. Probably not. We weren't particularly close to Florida. The only game we played well in was game 2 and that was razor thin. The other five games were spent almost entirely in our zone, one of which we stole. They easily could have swept us.

I'm not saying the Rangers are terrible. They're probably a top 5 team. On paper, I think some of the other four (if not all of them) are just obviously better. And at that point, like I said yesterday, you kind of have to step back and assess the direction you're going in.

With the roster and the salary cap where it's at now, it makes sense to ride out 2025 and see if something just happens. If not, they need to move in a significantly different direction going in 2026.

I mean this is somewhat true but I feel like you're zooming in on the Rangers issues while glossing over the other teams issues...

Dallas' defense is Heiskenen and Lindell and then an absolutely massive drop off.

Colorado has a lot riding on Nichuskin not getting in trouble and maybe Landeskog coming back and playing at the necessary level. Also, Georgiev...

Edmonton's defense, even with the emergency of Bouchard, is spotty at best. Nurse is a major issue for them.

Florida has nice firepower up front but their depth took a big hit and their defense is basically Forsling and then a hobbled Ekblad. They are going to leak chances against any time they are in their own zone and Forsling isn't on the ice.

That's not to say that the Rangers issues aren't ones they need to improve upon, but I'd say that their not completely unique.

 

[NYR Viper]

I will say that one thing that COULD push this team forward is a shrewd trade at this years deadline to add a much better LD in lieu of Jones or Lindgren.

If the Caps fall out of it, Chychrun.

If the Blue Jackets struggle, Provorov.

If the Knights struggle or want to make a big move and need cap space, Theodore.

Just as examples.

 

[Machinehead]

My take on the current team is that the forward group is good and deep with areas of continued improvement up and down the lineup. I think the existential issue of this roster is a lack of modern defensemen, and a refusal to use the D they have in roles that play to their strengths. Im partial to Drury but his handling of Lindgren and Trouba situations could get him shitcanned if he doesnt make a fairly aggressive move to improve the defense.

Teams have won the Cup before without being necessarily star-studded (St. Louis, Vegas low-key) but they had absolutely no weaknesses.

If we end up being "stuck" with this forward group for awhile, fixing the defense has to be the area of focus. Everything else needs to be perfect when you don't have guys that can just win by themselves.

I mean this is somewhat true but I feel like you're zooming in on the Rangers issues while glossing over the other teams issues...

Dallas' defense is Heiskenen and Lindell and then an absolutely massive drop off.

Colorado has a lot riding on Nichuskin not getting in trouble and maybe Landeskog coming back and playing at the necessary level. Also, Georgiev...

Edmonton's defense, even with the emergency of Bouchard, is spotty at best. Nurse is a major issue for them.

Florida has nice firepower up front but their depth took a big hit and their defense is basically Forsling and then a hobbled Ekblad. They are going to leak chances against any time they are in their own zone and Forsling isn't on the ice.

That's not to say that the Rangers issues aren't ones they need to improve upon, but I'd say that their not completely unique.

Every team has issues.

When you have McDavid, Draisaitl, Barkov, Tkachuk, MacKinnon etc. etc., it's easier to overcome issues. Or when you draft a first line forward with every f***ing selection like Dallas does.

To the above point, we can't afford issues.

If the Rangers were to win a Cup with this core of players, they need to ice a team with no flaws. The defense is very far from that. We have that same huge dropoff on D that Dallas does with a worse forward group. We have two Nurse's with a worse forward group.

If we're sticking with this core, the defense needs to be overhauled sans Fox.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

"We're good enough except our top players aren't good enough."

They have one more run before we all have to admit that it's a feature, not a bug. I think that's pretty reasonable.

Imo cup teams have depth that allows the top players room. Our 3rd line last year didn't do a whole lot, so it was easy to focus on our top 6 which imo was incomplete with Roslovic on the 1st line. The year Chytil Laf and Kakko were playing well made matchups harder for other teams. If we can get say Cuylle/Berard/Othmann Chytil and Kakko going it will make it easier for either the top 6 to get more room or for the 3rd line to get easier matchups. It's easy to point at the top guys but most teams when you get far into playoffs have that depth that can shut down a couple lines, it usually comes down to who can score outside of that.

 

[SA16]

A good way to have a bad 4th line is to intentionally play worse players because they fit a "4th line role."

 

[Drew4u]

I mean this is somewhat true but I feel like you're zooming in on the Rangers issues while glossing over the other teams issues...

Dallas' defense is Heiskenen and Lindell and then an absolutely massive drop off.

Colorado has a lot riding on Nichuskin not getting in trouble and maybe Landeskog coming back and playing at the necessary level. Also, Georgiev...

Edmonton's defense, even with the emergency of Bouchard, is spotty at best. Nurse is a major issue for them.

Florida has nice firepower up front but their depth took a big hit and their defense is basically Forsling and then a hobbled Ekblad. They are going to leak chances against any time they are in their own zone and Forsling isn't on the ice.

That's not to say that the Rangers issues aren't ones they need to improve upon, but I'd say that their not completely unique.

It's funny because you missed Harley who was probably their best defencemen last year and is young.

But yes, the Rangers defence is not good enough to compete for a cup.

 

[Daves a mess]

Wonder if right now, at this very second, KK is on the ice somewhere working with someone on his
1982 Toyota Corolla first 3 steps or in Helsinki on the couch watching reruns of Edward Scissorhands.

It's 8:53 there now. I'm going with Ed followed by YLE News.

 

[bhamill]

There's three players with championship-caliber talent on this team.

Fox is fine.

Igor is a goalie, so I don't care, and I don't feel like rehashing that argument.

Then there's Panarin, who is very obviously not in the playoffs what he is in the regular season.

That's it. It's not that great compared to the other top teams.

Zibanejad is not that guy. People warned for years that he's not. He's not any better than Trocheck. Kreider is a secondary contributor and he's a good one. Probably worth keeping. He was never a guy that should be a top 3-5 player on a Cup winner, and honestly, at $6.5m, he isn't paid anywhere near like he's supposed to be one. So basically, I don't see Kreider as a problem, I see not having a better wing in postseason hockey as a problem (maybe Lafreniere going forward but still).

Speaking of Laf, he's not there yet. I hope he will be but this is what we're working with in 2025. They're just not that good. Sorry.

Meanwhile, Florida and Edmonton arguably have 4 of the top 10 players in the world between them. That's what we're competing with. And Florida's secondary guys like Reinhart and Verhaeghe would be our best forwards not named Panarin. There's honestly no comparison.

I think there's a notion that with a healthy Fox and the 120 point version of Panarin, we win the Cup. Probably not. We weren't particularly close to Florida. The only game we played well in was game 2 and that was razor thin. The other five games were spent almost entirely in our zone, one of which we stole. They easily could have swept us.

I'm not saying the Rangers are terrible. They're probably a top 5 team. On paper, I think some of the other four (if not all of them) are just obviously better. And at that point, like I said yesterday, you kind of have to step back and assess the direction you're going in.

With the roster and the salary cap where it's at now, it makes sense to ride out 2025 and see if something just happens. If not, they need to move in a significantly different direction going in 2026.

Trocheck (highest on NYR) scored at a higher rate in the playoffs than anyone on Florida. 1.25 ppg.
Lafreniere (4th on NYR while not getting much powerplay time) scored at a .875 ppg clip, the same as Verhaughe a a smidge behind Florida leaders Barkov and Tkachuck (both at 0.92 ppg)...
Fox is a better d man than Forsling by any measure when healthy.
Igor is as good as or better than Bob...

If NYR don't have enough "championship-caliber talent," then neither does FL... they had more depth scoring.
Our problem was Pan, Zibs and Kreids not raising their games/disappearing in the conference finals, injuries, and not playing the "right" kind of game. It's not a matter of "talent."

I expect Laf to take another step. I expect Cuylle, Kakko, Miller and Schneider to be better than last year. Chytil is of course a question mark but there's no reason if healthy that he cant be a huge upgrade over what we had last season. Carrick > last year's Goodrow, Smith is an upgrade. If a couple of Zibs, Trouba or Lindgren have bounce back years we are looking very good. Jones is an unproven, but it wouldn't be insane to think he can outperform last year's Gus...

I just don't see the reason for significant pessimism aside from the emotional scarring this team has inflicted on us all. Hahaha.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Rangers have enough if Igor does what he done and either -

1. The defense is good enough to support the forwards

2. Their top guys show up.

The issue is BOTH of the above have failed them in their last 3 years. They could have won last year if they had better players in place of Trouba and Lindgren and Perhaps could have won if Panarin didn’t dud out again and Mika hit a heater instead of going goalless for the final 11 games even with those 2.

Those are pretty big ifs comprised of your 2 highest paid forwards and half of your top 4.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Trocheck (highest on NYR) scored at a higher rate in the playoffs than anyone on Florida. 1.25 ppg.
Lafreniere (4th on NYR while not getting much powerplay time) scored at a .875 ppg clip, the same as Verhaughe a a smidge behind Florida leaders Barkov and Tkachuck (both at 0.92 ppg)...
Fox is a better d man than Forsling by any measure when healthy.
Igor is as good as or better than Bob...

If NYR don't have enough "championship-caliber talent," then neither does FL... they had more depth scoring.
Our problem was Pan, Zibs and Kreids not raising their games/disappearing in the conference finals, injuries, and not playing the "right" kind of game. It's not a matter of "talent."

I expect Laf to take another step. I expect Cuylle, Kakko, Miller and Schneider to be better than last year. Chytil is of course a question mark but there's no reason if healthy that he cant be a huge upgrade over what we had last season. Carrick > last year's Goodrow, Smith is an upgrade. If a couple of Zibs, Trouba or Lindgren have bounce back years we are looking very good. Jones is an unproven, but it wouldn't be insane to think he can outperform last year's Gus...

I just don't see the reason for significant pessimism aside from the emotional scarring this team has inflicted on us all. Hahaha.

Florida's depth scoring was actually their biggest weakness.

If you want to look at the Rangers series in isolation, Lines 2-4+ the defense for the NYR actually outscored Floridas lines 2-4+ their D. This is with the Rangers failing to get a single goal from a defenseman in this series.

Their top line murdered the Rangers top line. That was the big difference on a macro level. Lines 2-4 were either a push or advantage NYR. They got 1 goal from the Kreider-Zibanejad duo and 1 goal from the trio of Kreider-Zibanejad-Panarin until there was a minute 30 left in the series.

From a tactical standpoint, Lavi should have probably pulled off of letting Mika/Kreider get killed by Barkov and given Trocheck and co. a go vs them (in limited minutes, they did pretty well.)

It also didn't help that Panarin basically ghosted against secondary and tertiary matchups. His line mates ate about as well as they could have considering how bad he was.

On a micro level it's much deeper than that. I think Lindgren/Trouba were much, much, much bigger issues than any of the forwards.

 

[Profet]

Othmann is either in our top 9 or traded.
It was reported he’s not playing in the ahl again.

Not doubting you... just curious if you have a link?

 

[Profet]

The Rangers bet the house on Kakko by trading Buch. I doubt that bet pays off at this point.

Kakko will get traded at the deadline for a pick.

 

[n8]

Othmann is either in our top 9 or traded.
It was reported he’s not playing in the ahl again.

Reported where? Or is this one of those lame click-bait articles that is actually a reporter speculating?

 

[IDvsEGO]

Reported where? Or is this one of those lame click-bait articles that is actually a reporter speculating?

It was posted here earlier this off season by one of the better sources.