Roster Building Thread - Part XII(Training Camp/Preseason)

[Shesterkybomb]

I think Othmann is in the top 9 over Berard.

I agree, but the issue the zib line has is they need speed on their wing for it to be a match, anyone who has ever worked well there has speed. It's why Vatrano worked, why they acquired Roslovic to lesser results and why they tried Chytil there when he came back. I'd love to see Othmann on this team, I hope it happens but would love to see him with Chytil.

 

[Rongomania]

My point is that Chytil at 100% is still ike a 40% faceoff win guy historically.

Compare that with Trocheck who is around 60%.

Faceoffs and initial possession are everything for power plays. Especially offensive zone draws.

As with Kak, to think these dudes are completely finished products at their age is pretty unreasonable.

 

[Profet]

As with Kak, to think these dudes are completely finished products at their age is pretty unreasonable.

Chytil is 25yo this year.

He's quickly running out of potential runway.

I hope he does great... but there is some "he is what he is" there too.

 

[TominNC]

How about both? I’m not sitting here thinking. “We really shouldn’t bother improving at 5v5.” Hahaha. I’m all for it! Besides the power play is a part of the game that we’re really good at… till we aren’t and the post season is over for us.

When you have something that works you go with it. Fix the parts that don't work. Don't possibly ruin something that does. We could also get to the ECF and Shesty goes cold. Or the lines that work to get is the President's trophy fail.

 

[Rongomania]

Chytil is 25yo this year.

He's quickly running out of potential runway.

I hope he does great... but there is some "he is what he is" there too.

He turns 25 next week. There is still room for him to grow for sure.

We shall see.

We all better hope these young dudes take steps this year. That, no vet regression and the D being slightly better make us a very difficult team to out in a playoff scenario.

 

[Ruggs225]

With Chytil u always see growth every year, but then u get the injury every year that derails it.

Kid just needs to stay healthy, which is easier said than done. The potential is there.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I agree, but the issue the zib line has is they need speed on their wing for it to be a match, anyone who has ever worked well there has speed. It's why Vatrano worked, why they acquired Roslovic to lesser results and why they tried Chytil there when he came back. I'd love to see Othmann on this team, I hope it happens but would love to see him with Chytil.

othmann isn’t a slow player.

 

[RangersFan1994]

With Chytil u always see growth every year, but then u get the injury every year that derails it.

Kid just needs to stay healthy, which is easier said than done. The potential is there.

Maybe he should be aware and not put himself where he gets a concussion. Other players are not injury prone, he should take advice from them. He’s so fragile, as is Kakko and both are large guys that do need to get stronger that are fragile

 

[TGWL]

How about both? I’m not sitting here thinking. “We really shouldn’t bother improving at 5v5.” Hahaha. I’m all for it! Besides the power play is a part of the game that we’re really good at… till we aren’t and the post season is over for us.

I get what you're saying. When it goes cold it's put on blast because we lose games. And when we lose games by 1, it makes it seem even worse.

We were 5th in powerplay percentage for the post season. We played more games than 2 of the teams sitting above us combined, chances are we would have been sitting in 3rd if those teams played more games. We scored the 3rd most powerplay goals. 3 less powerplay goals than Florida and with 30+ less chances.

In the end, it's hard to fault the powerplay just because it went cold during what we feel was the most important time. I get that most of the word on the PP was done early, but teams did what they needed to do. I don't think it was because we needed more options. We were a top playoff powerplay team. Out of the 16 teams we finished 12th in shots per game and top 3 for most shots against. I just think the main focus is going in the wrong direction

 

[Synergy27]

I’m not one to want to mess with our great PP, but if we’re going to do it in an attempt to somehow improve our 5v5 play, why not just keep the lines together as separate PP units?

Panarin-Tro-Laf
Miller-Fox

Kreider-Zib-Smith
Jones-Trouba

I’m sure someone has done the math on this, but how many shifts post PP get affected because the lines get jumbled up? It’s probably not a lot, but who knows. Something to try if we’re trying stuff.

 

[Drew4u]

Im also in the camp of replacing Zib for Laf. He scored 2 pp goals in the playoffs and his shooting % was 11.1. That is horrible. Trochek in comparison scored 5 and shot at 33.3%. Again Zibanejad is nothing special both on 5v5 and on the pp.

I feel like if he declines any further next year, his contract will start to rival Trouba's for being horrendous.

 

[eco's bones]

Chytil's on ice awareness has never been great. It's why he keeps getting dinged. Him and Rodrigues collided a couple years back around center ice....neither saw each other and Filip didn't see Fast coming his way this year. These haven't been the only big hits he's taken like that but they add up and he is prone to them. He could be a highlight hit away from career over.

Like with Kakko when it looks like he's turning a corner it's usually the sign (so far in their respective careers anyway) that they're about to get knocked out of the lineup with an injury. Then it takes a while to come back and they start from zero again trying to regain confidence. Some players just aren't very lucky.

At this point Filip doesn't really need to prove he can be a top two line center. If he can stay healthy and contribute from the third line that's great. Mika's 5v5 play may be in decline but I don't think Filip has it in him to outproduce Zibanejad anyway.

As well depending on prospects progressing Filip and Kakko may be at the point where you seriously think about moving them in trades. Again they'll have to stay healthy but if the Rangers can moving them this year or next is definitely something Drury should seriously think about or at least IMO.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

No room to grow ... laughable.

He shouldn't get slower the next 6-7 that's for sure, maybe 10 years. From his draft day, his lower body was built like a horse. He should keep eating mileage like nothing.

He's got enough hockey smarts to build up on. He gained that competitiveness.
Last season was a debacle for him ... he'll bounce back big time. Watch out in camp.

Chytil might be far from his peak. I feel he has a strong vision for himself and should be starving to have a great season.

 

[SA16]

Im also in the camp of replacing Zib for Laf. He scored 2 pp goals in the playoffs and his shooting % was 11.1. That is horrible. Trochek in comparison scored 5 and shot at 33.3%. Again Zibanejad is nothing special both on 5v5 and on the pp.

I feel like if he declines any further next year, his contract will start to rival Trouba's for being horrendous.

Lafreniere shot 0% on the PP in the playoffs so I wouldn't move him on to PP1.

 

[bhamill]

When you have something that works you go with it. Fix the parts that don't work. Don't possibly ruin something that does. We could also get to the ECF and Shesty goes cold. Or the lines that work to get is the President's trophy fail.

As Ive already said : the powerplay has failed and helped cost us series the last two post seasons. YOU may think it works well enough. I don’t. It was very good against Wash, okay against Carolina and bad against Florida. And even if it was good why wouldn’t we try to make it better? Try to make EVERYTHING better. To me it’s just weird that people have a problem with trying to improve ANY facet of our game. Makes zero sense to me.
I really don’t care if you don’t want to improve the pp. To have options. That’s fine. But you aren’t changing my mind either.

 

[Profet]

As Ive already said : the powerplay has failed and helped cost us series the last two post seasons. YOU may think it works well enough. I don’t. It was very good against Wash, okay against Carolina and bad against Florida. And even if it was good why wouldn’t we try to make it better? Try to make EVERYTHING better. To me it’s just weird that people have a problem with trying to improve ANY facet of our game. Makes zero sense to me.
I really don’t care if you don’t want to improve the pp. To have options. That’s fine. But you aren’t changing my mind either.

You're not going to get any PP to a 100% scoring rate. The current PP is very good. You can strive for perfection.. but there is a saying:

"Perfect is the enemy of good."


Relying on it works in the regular season, not in the post season. I would like the team to be better all around, rather than a one trick PP pony.

 

[bhamill]

I get what you're saying. When it goes cold it's put on blast because we lose games. And when we lose games by 1, it makes it seem even worse.

We were 5th in powerplay percentage for the post season. We played more games than 2 of the teams sitting above us combined, chances are we would have been sitting in 3rd if those teams played more games. We scored the 3rd most powerplay goals. 3 less powerplay goals than Florida and with 30+ less chances.

In the end, it's hard to fault the powerplay just because it went cold during what we feel was the most important time. I get that most of the word on the PP was done early, but teams did what they needed to do. I don't think it was because we needed more options. We were a top playoff powerplay team. Out of the 16 teams we finished 12th in shots per game and top 3 for most shots against. I just think the main focus is going in the wrong direction

Honestly I don’t find it hard to fault the power play when it goes 2/14 in the Conference finals in which we lost 3 games by 1 goal, including an OT loss. ONE PPG in the last four games.
You don’t think we needed more options? That’s fair. You’re entitled to that opinion and I respect it. But I think we did need more options. Also fair.

I’m not saying we should only, or even mainly, focus on the power play. I’m saying we should be looking for answers for when it goes cold. Along with addressing our other shortcomings.
If I say we need a cure for skin cancer it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to find cures for other cancers. It merely means we should address the issue. That’s all I’m saying.

 

[bhamill]

You're not going to get any PP to a 100% scoring rate. The current PP is very good. You can strive for perfection.. but there is a saying:

"Perfect is the enemy of good."


Relying on it works in the regular season, not in the post season. I would like the team to be better all around, rather than a one trick PP pony.

Wanting to do better than 2/14 in the conference finals is not asking for 100%. Im not asking for perfection… In fact I don’t know why you are taking that tact. I’ve never said our powerplay is BAD. I’ve never said I expect 33%, never mind 100%… I have only said we need an answer for when it goes cold in the playoffs, because there’s no time to let it find it’s level, a series is over in 4-7 games… we had one ppg in the final 4 games. One reason it didn’t go another game…
I also want to be better all around. These aren’t mutually exclusive things.

 

[Profet]

Any news/rumors on PTO's for camp?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Thing is can we afford to have Igor being our best player most nights in the POs? Or should the focus be on building a better team in front of whoever is in net? After the Hank years and seeing that Igor is on the same trajectory, I'd be a lot more interested to see what this team would look like with B- goaltending and an A roster instead of A+ goaltending and a B- roster.

You hope your goalie can steal a few games in the POs and even "a few" is a lot across ~20 someodd games. You expect your skaters to win games. You are right that it doesn't matter who's in net if the skaters don't show up.

Why can't it be both?

One thing is for certain, getting an extra 6M you save from getting rid of Igor, and getting an average goalie, isn't going to magically going to make us build a better team.

 

[majordomo]

As Ive already said : the powerplay has failed and helped cost us series the last two post seasons. YOU may think it works well enough. I don’t. It was very good against Wash, okay against Carolina and bad against Florida. And even if it was good why wouldn’t we try to make it better? Try to make EVERYTHING better. To me it’s just weird that people have a problem with trying to improve ANY facet of our game. Makes zero sense to me.
I really don’t care if you don’t want to improve the pp. To have options. That’s fine. But you aren’t changing my mind either.

I've always felt that the first PP unit was a "one-trick pony" group -- you know exactly what they are going to do: pass the puck around trying to (a) set up Zib for the one-timer from the circle or (b) a pass toward the net for a Kreider tip in. There is no Plan B. In the playoffs, I would think you'd be more successful putting the puck on net, purposely shoot it off the goalie's pads for rebound. Of course, the Rangers are not set up for this type of play.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Why can't it be both?

One thing is for certain, getting an extra 6M you save from getting rid of Igor, and getting an average goalie, isn't going to magically going to make us build a better team.

I agree both should be the goal, but then we see organizations tie themselves to particular players for whatever their reasons are. This organization has shown a penchant for leaning on goalies and going dumpster diving to fill out other spots; I'd just be interested to see what the plan/result would be if they leaned more into targeting skaters that are half/a full tier above what they usually get. Saving 6M in goal could lead to other skaters being legitimate options at the deadline/off-season, and in my mind it would be more of a cascading effect that would bleed into future seasons. Not necessarily talking about a singular player being the difference maker.

 

[eco's bones]

There are reasons why teams make it to the conference finals. Pretty much usually their goaltending has been really good and if not their power play.......their penalty kill will almost always be really good too. Teams that don't defend well don't win Stanley Cups. You have to figure the deeper your team goes the more and more difficult it's going to be for your power play....and we weren't getting a lot of them against Florida anyway.

Our power play didn't produce against the Panthers but to me a much bigger factor was we were being outplayed pretty handily 5v5. Igor won us both our games and kept the scores respectable in the losses. Our defense was also kind of trashed by that point. We didn't deserve to win the series but the power play was hardly the biggest issue why.

......and momentum in a playoff situation is also a funny thing. A team that has it will feed off of it. And a team when it loses momentum.....it could be a very good team but sometimes won't be able to find a way to get it back. You can sometimes see teams lose all their mojo. That happened to the Rangers against the Panthers. After game 3 which we were lucky to win in OT the losses seemed inevitable almost from puck drop. It's frustrating after the regular season and the way the first two series went but Florida was always going to be our biggest challenge and they were getting to our net a whole lot more than we were getting to theirs.

 

[Hire Sather]

That's ridiculous. It takes a team to win, he can be our best player, but when the rest of the players shit the bed and don't show up then yes, we arent going to win.

I'd love for him to be our best player, makes things a lot easier. But when your other top players arent showing up then it doesn't matter.

The goalie cannot be paid like a franchise player.

It puts the team at a serious disadvantage with the cap

 

[Hire Sather]

Thing is can we afford to have Igor being our best player most nights in the POs? Or should the focus be on building a better team in front of whoever is in net? After the Hank years and seeing that Igor is on the same trajectory, I'd be a lot more interested to see what this team would look like with B- goaltending and an A roster instead of A+ goaltending and a B- roster.

You hope your goalie can steal a few games in the POs and even "a few" is a lot across ~20 someodd games. You expect your skaters to win games. You are right that it doesn't matter who's in net if the skaters don't show up.

And in the playoffs, that B- goalie can just as easily steal a game.