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Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

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Did anyone see this Brooks article?

http://nypost.com/2017/10/29/alain-vigneault-may-have-one-game-left/amp/

I think AV is done this week. My reasoning in gorton keeping him was that he wanted to see if this team was ready to compete, and if it was, then AV would probably be a good coach for it.

But it's not ready, it's a waste of life, and a bunch of passengers like Mikos alluded to.

Fire this coach and change the culture.
 
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TheTakedown said:
Did anyone see this Brooks article?

http://nypost.com/2017/10/29/alain-vigneault-may-have-one-game-left/amp/

I think AV is done this week. My reasoning in gorton keeping him was that he wanted to see if this team was ready to compete, and if it was, then AV would probably be a good coach for it.

But it's not ready, it's a waste of life, and a bunch of passengers like Mikos alluded to.

Fire this coach and change the culture.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is what we've been talking about for the last page or so.
 
TheTakedown said:
Did anyone see this Brooks article?

http://nypost.com/2017/10/29/alain-vigneault-may-have-one-game-left/amp/

I think AV is done this week. My reasoning in gorton keeping him was that he wanted to see if this team was ready to compete, and if it was, then AV would probably be a good coach for it.

But it's not ready, it's a waste of life, and a bunch of passengers like Mikos alluded to.

Fire this coach and change the culture.
Click to expand...

A fatal flaw would be assuming that the coach is 100% responsible for this lack of urgency culture we've seen lately.

Make no mistake, this Brooks article is orchestrated. We'll either see the team respond for their coach, or we could see a 10-2 debacle that sealed Renney's fate years ago. But again, this team's problems run deep and I'd expect AV to be the first of many dominoes.
 
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We have other issues (every team does) but the periods we just don't show up for (some years it's the first, others it's been the second) is an AV habit. Plain and simple. He did it in Vancouver.
 
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I think the key to accepting that the Rangers need to rebuild is to realize that Lundqvist is 35 right now, will be 36 in March, and has been a well below average goaltender for a year now. I'd hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it is only going to get worse. He's signed for 4 more years including this one, and the Rangers have no chance of winning a cup while Hank's $8,500,000 cap hit is on the books. Ok maybe a .000001 chance. But it's not going to happen. The key is to start planning for the 2021-22 season. Lundqvist, Shattenkirk, Staal, Smith will all be UFA in the summer of 2021 and Girardi's buyout cap hit will be at $1,111,111 with 2 years remaining. I can't see a team trading for Lundqivst/Staal during those 4 years. Shattenkirk/Smith are tradeable but they also have NTC's which will make a trade more difficult.

PxxtXe9.png


Use these next 3-4 seasons to acquire as many prospects/draft picks as possible. Trade Nash, Kreider, Zucc, Miller, Hayes, Grabner, Desharnais, Vesey, McDonagh, Shattenkirk/Smith (if you can) and Holden. Take back bad contracts in exchange for better picks/prospects.

Fire AV and hire a coach that won't bench young players for messing up while he allows vets to skate around derping all over the ice for 60 minutes.

I also think it's time to move on from Gordie Clark. It's time for a new set of eyes to run the drafts. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007089.html

This organization could be in a great position in 4 years if things are handled correctly.
 
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Machinehead said:
We have other issues (every team does) but the periods we just don't show up for (some years it's the first, others it's been the second) is an AV habit. Plain and simple. He did it in Vancouver.
Click to expand...
We have been a dreadful 1st period team this year and have always been noticeably crap at playing late with a lead - that is the biggest coaching identifiers for me
 
hi said:
I think the key to accepting that the Rangers need to rebuild is to realize that Lundqvist is 35 right now, will be 36 in March, and has been a well below average goaltender for a year now. I'd hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it is only going to get worse. He's signed for 4 more years including this one, and the Rangers have no chance of winning a cup while Hank's $8,500,000 cap hit is on the books. Ok maybe a .000001 chance. But it's not going to happen. The key is to start planning for the 2021-22 season. Lundqvist, Shattenkirk, Staal, Smith will all be UFA in the summer of 2021 and Girardi's buyout cap hit will be at $1,111,111 with 2 years remaining. I can't see a team trading for Lundqivst/Staal during those 4 years. Shattenkirk/Smith are tradeable but they also have NTC's which will make a trade more difficult.

PxxtXe9.png


Use these next 3-4 seasons to acquire as many prospects/draft picks as possible. Trade Nash, Kreider, Zucc, Miller, Hayes, Grabner, Desharnais, Vesey, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Smith and Holden. Take back bad contracts in exchange for better picks/prospects.

Fire AV and hire a coach that won't bench young players for messing up while he allows vets to skate around derping all over the ice for 60 minutes.

I also think it's time to move on from Gordie Clark. It's time for a new set of eyes to run the drafts. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007089.html

This organization could be in a great position in 4 years if things are handled correctly.
Click to expand...

We'll be in a great position in 4 years by trading literally the whole organization and playing a bunch of 18 year olds and cap-dumps? Surely not.

I'm on board with taking a step back, but this is a classic case of overdoing the rebuild.
 
Lundqvist hasn't been a well below average goalie in the last year though, he's been average, slightly above, when looking at shot quality adjusted stats like for example dSv%.
 
Richard Banger said:
I wouldn't be upset if it was Keider for dria+salary dump like looch
Click to expand...
Lucic has value - these boards put the cart before the horse when taking value away from a player for projected downturn in later seasons; not to mention Lucic can play with top line players while also protecting them (McDavid).

Draisaitl would be a tremendous target - just think it would take more than Kreider. The idea behind it to entice Edm would be to propel them to a better team for a cup this year to make up the difference between Kreider and Draisaitl.

I said Kreider, Nash at 50%, Grabner at 50% makes them a better team this year. Even then, we may still have to add somewhere. Take on Kris Russell for Holden? Who knows.
 
There's not a chance in the world we get Draisaitl from Edmonton and the plus you're talking on top of Kreider is along the lines of Buchnevich or Andersson or Chytil or first to even start. Certainly not random throw ins.
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
Was just pointing out something i think was false.
Click to expand...

I know. It's just sad that we're splitting hairs about Hank at this point. We've gone from "is he the best in the world?" to "is he even average?" in about 18 months. I knew he'd decline someday, but I didn't think it'd be this rapidly.
 
Trxjw said:
I know. It's just sad that we're splitting hairs about Hank at this point. We've gone from "is he the best in the world?" to "is he even average?" in about 18 months. I knew he'd decline someday, but I didn't think it'd be this rapidly.
Click to expand...

Well, had to happen at some point, i still think he can bounce back a bit and be a top-10, maybe top-5 goalie in the league again but time is definitely catching up with him. To be fair though, he is by far the best goalie in the post lockout era and you can make a solid argument that he's the 2nd best goalie in the modern hockey era, so atleast there's that.
 
Trxjw said:
I know. It's just sad that we're splitting hairs about Hank at this point. We've gone from "is he the best in the world?" to "is he even average?" in about 18 months. I knew he'd decline someday, but I didn't think it'd be this rapidly.
Click to expand...

Look on the bright side, we could be giving 10+M to Carey Price (3.64 GAA .883 SV)
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
Well, had to happen at some point, i still think he can bounce back a bit and be a top-10, maybe top-5 goalie in the league again but time is definitely catching up with him. To be fair though, he is by far the best goalie in the post lockout era and you can make a solid argument that he's the 2nd best goalie in the modern hockey era, so atleast there's that.
Click to expand...

What makes me particularly sad is that will be virtually forgotten by the fanbase as his decline continues, and it could get ugly which would suck.
 
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IF they’re trading kreider which would surprise me than it means they are blowing this thing up completely. Which IMO they should.

Not winning with the goaltending we currently have nor the lack of dynamic forwards up front. Lot of talent but it’s support talent.

And unfortunately mcdonagh has regressed. He’s a good player not great.

Brady Skjei doesn’t show up to stsrt seasons. He’s a third pair dman till about December. That’s on him. HE needs to learn to come to play on day 1

Zucc CK Nash Grabner Holden DD that should be a huge return.

Trading CK though would be brutal unless you’re getting a monster return. I’m talking a first plus their top prospect
 
Machinehead said:
We'll be in a great position in 4 years by trading literally the whole organization and playing a bunch of 18 year olds and cap-dumps? Surely not.

I'm on board with taking a step back, but this is a classic case of overdoing the rebuild.
Click to expand...

The Rangers are currently in a terrible position with the players you don't want to trade having important roles on the team. I'd much rather have a core of Chytil/Buch/Skjei/Shesty + 2018/2019/2020 picks + other prospects acquired in trades in 2021-22 than a core of 32 year old McDonagh/34 year old Zuccarello/30 year old Kreider/28 year old Miller/29 year old Hayes.

The next 4 years are a lost cause due to the Lundqvist/Staal/Girardi contracts. Trying to contend is only going to hurt the future. Re-signing McDonagh/Zucc/Kreider to long term deals during this 4 year stretch will lead to more years of mediocrity.

You say overdoing the rebuild, I say making sure that the Rangers have the best chance at selecting elite talent in the draft.
 
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ManUtdTobbe said:
Well, had to happen at some point, i still think he can bounce back a bit and be a top-10, maybe top-5 goalie in the league again but time is definitely catching up with him. To be fair though, he is by far the best goalie in the post lockout era and you can make a solid argument that he's the 2nd best goalie in the modern hockey era, so atleast there's that.
Click to expand...

Another problem I am seeing is that AVs system relies on incredible goaltending. Switch to a zone defense and Hanks numbers will go back up
 
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