Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

[TheTakedown]

You still need players. Shattenkirk signed for 2nd pairing money. There’s nothing confusing about that.

By the way, I keep seeing $7.5m to resign McDonagh. Pipe dream. He’s going to command closer to $9m.

Even more of a reason not to keep him

 

[HonestGabe]

I believe management really has to go through with this and rebuild from now through the draft. The Rangers are in an unprecedented position where they can revamp this entire organization within two years.

Analyzing this team's future core is exciting. We have three blue-chip prospects in our system (Chytil, Andersson, Shestyorkin) and a decent 25 and under core, as well as pieces like Kreider and Shattenkirk who will still produce at their current level when the team is ready to compete again.

First things first, fire AV. Team won't go anywhere with him at the helm.

Zuccarello would be a great add for a contender. Boston. Could we get DeBrusk and a 1st out of them? If so, do it.

Send Grabner to Nashville. His speed and versatility is invaluable for a deep playoff run. Depth scoring. Dante Fabbro and a 3rd round pick as a return.

Nash has to be moved. I think Anaheim would bite. Retain half his salary and acquire their 1st rounder.

Holden and DD can be of use to bubble teams looking for extra depth. Walking away with a 4th and a 5th would be a victory.

I think a McDonagh trade, as painful as it would be to move him, is the right move. Trade him to Vancouver for Olli Juolevi and Vancouver's 1st at the draft.

Draft day. Due to injuries and a deadline day sell off, the Rangers hold the 9th overall selection. Vancouver has the 7th overall pick. Boston picks 27th. Anaheim 29th.

Trade the 9th overall and the 27th overall for pick #3 or 4.

Draft Filip Zadina. Oliver Wahlstrom at #7. Pick Jett Woo at #29. Take chances on some skill players in the second and third round.

Suddenly you have all of these players with legitimate NHL potential under 25

C -- Filip Chytil, Mika Zibanejad, Lias Andersson, Boo Nieves, Gabriel Fontaine
RW -- Filip Zadina, Pavel Buchnevich, Jake DeBrusk, Ty Ronning
LW -- Oliver Wahlstrom, JT Miller, Jimmy Vesey, Vinni Lettieri
D -- Brady Skjei, Olli Juolevi, Jett Woo, Dante Fabbro, Tony DeAngelo, Neal Pionk, Sean Day, Ryan Graves, Brandon Crawley
G -- Igor Shestyorkin, Adam Huska

Add to that players such as Kreider, Hayes, Shattenkirk, Smith who are all under the age of 30.

You can add some UFAs to augment the young guys. There will be growing pains. But with an embarrassment of riches in the prospect pool, you set yourself up with a world of possibilities. In today's NHL, cost controlled assets are insanely valuable and this organization could go from bottom tier to top tier in a matter of months in that regard.

 

[bl02]

I believe management really has to go through with this and rebuild from now through the draft. The Rangers are in an unprecedented position where they can revamp this entire organization within two years.

Analyzing this team's future core is exciting. We have three blue-chip prospects in our system (Chytil, Andersson, Shestyorkin) and a decent 25 and under core, as well as pieces like Kreider and Shattenkirk who will still produce at their current level when the team is ready to compete again.

First things first, fire AV. Team won't go anywhere with him at the helm.

Zuccarello would be a great add for a contender. Boston. Could we get DeBrusk and a 1st out of them? If so, do it.

Send Grabner to Nashville. His speed and versatility is invaluable for a deep playoff run. Depth scoring. Dante Fabbro and a 3rd round pick as a return.

Nash has to be moved. I think Anaheim would bite. Retain half his salary and acquire their 1st rounder.

Holden and DD can be of use to bubble teams looking for extra depth. Walking away with a 4th and a 5th would be a victory.

I think a McDonagh trade, as painful as it would be to move him, is the right move. Trade him to Vancouver for Olli Juolevi and Vancouver's 1st at the draft.

Draft day. Due to injuries and a deadline day sell off, the Rangers hold the 9th overall selection. Vancouver has the 7th overall pick. Boston picks 27th. Anaheim 29th.

Trade the 9th overall and the 27th overall for pick #3 or 4.

Draft Filip Zadina. Oliver Wahlstrom at #7. Pick Jett Woo at #29. Take chances on some skill players in the second and third round.

Suddenly you have all of these players with legitimate NHL potential under 25

C -- Filip Chytil, Mika Zibanejad, Lias Andersson, Boo Nieves, Gabriel Fontaine
RW -- Filip Zadina, Pavel Buchnevich, Jake DeBrusk, Ty Ronning
LW -- Oliver Wahlstrom, JT Miller, Jimmy Vesey, Vinni Lettieri
D -- Brady Skjei, Olli Juolevi, Jett Woo, Dante Fabbro, Tony DeAngelo, Neal Pionk, Sean Day, Ryan Graves, Brandon Crawley
G -- Igor Shestyorkin, Adam Huska

Add to that players such as Kreider, Hayes, Shattenkirk, Smith who are all under the age of 30.

You can add some UFAs to augment the young guys. There will be growing pains. But with an embarrassment of riches in the prospect pool, you set yourself up with a world of possibilities. In today's NHL, cost controlled assets are insanely valuable and this organization could go from bottom tier to top tier in a matter of months in that regard.

As much as I would love to see all of that talented youth in a blueshirt What kind of hypnosis do you plan on using on Jim Benning and David Poile (although i love Grabs).?????

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

IMO Gorton isn't looking to trade big pieces for picks. He's looking to Erat for Forsberg somebody with Nash. And if he trades his biggest piece, McDonagh, it's going to take a huge overpayment including NHL ready talent. He's not looking to rebuild and strip it all down to the bones and rebuild entirely with picks.

 

[TheTakedown]

You should care, because there is an overwhelming chance that he will not be worth that pretty early into his contract.

Chicago won their cups before their guys got super expensive. McDonagh is not on the level as Pittsburgh's top 2. It would be one thing if we were talking about locking up a 24 year old McDonagh, but we aren't.

I'm in total agreement. Chicago is a great example--their expensive guys' abilities is slightly dipping (and EVER SO SLIGHTLY), and now they are starting to run into major problem with fitting depth onto that roster. Between Toews ($10.5), Kane ($10.5), and Crawford ($6), they are already out 34% of an 80M Cap...

Between McDonagh ($8M) and Hank ($8.5), and assuming an $80M cap, those two take up 20% of the cap. THen you have Shattenkirk at $almost $7M, Staal at $5.7M. Hayes, Buchnevich, and Skjei all need to be locked up on long term contracts in order to keep them affordable, you're looking at $5.5M on average for 5-7 years with each of those guys.

The Rangers are not contending in 2017-18, 2018-19, and they will be slightly on the cusp of building their way up in 2019-20... McDonagh has 1.25 seasons left on his current contract, he's going to demand $9M/year on his next contract, he'll settle for $8M (especially likely with the rising cap) over 7-8 years... He'll be 30 before that contract starts, you get maybe 3 good years out of that contract.

and that is what I'm afraid of. Does McDonagh become another Dan Girardi, where we have to jettison good players (Stralman) because we committed too much money to the wrong guy for too much time? That would be a serious anchor on a Rangers core that's most likely ready to contend in 3 years.

Imagine if you get Makar, of Skjei and DeAngelo take the next steps? Sure you have great D depth now, but at what expense? 10% of the salary cap? On one player?

 

[TheTakedown]

The question isn’t what McDonagh is this year or next. It’s a question of what he will be in the next window.

A diminished McDonagh doesn’t give you the 1D we all agree you need. A diminished McDonagh is what we are likely to have in 4 years.

Exactly my point.

 

[TheTakedown]

There is a school of thought that you can win in this league without an Elite defensemen on the backend.

That said, the only GM that really pulled that off is Jimmy Rutheford, and one season that was due to an injury to Letang.

I think the McD trade winds come up for the following reasons:

• He's a high value return- Only roster player that would return a star level package for team that is depleted of depth.
• The captaincy and McTruck are not a good fit. Never was... and he's not the type of leader that this org needs.
• They feel that can ice 6 middle six guys that can skate and win. Which is something that they don't have... but that's more attainable than top pair guys.
• Mileage concerns. Guys played a lot of hard miles and minutes... and they don't feel he's got 5-7 more years of that.

That's reasonable.

Now you want to look at the return you can get for him. IMO... you need a really good young defenseman coming back.

That's a Jacob Larrson, a Olli Juelevi... a guy that can come in and play mistake free 23 minutes a night.

Then you want a player that is going to play an important role if it not a front line player... That's a cost controlled asset that kill penalties and play a hard reliable 5v5 game.

Now you get to the picks. 1st is a must.

Then it's a sweetener to depend on what you got in terms of the players coming back in the trade.

If you get that.... you trade McDonagh.

You won't replace him... but you can replace his minutes.. and if you're doing that while augmenting other slots in the organization... then you are okay.

Fantastic f***ing post. I take it you have some info that we don't have in the public space

 

[eco's bones]

I believe management really has to go through with this and rebuild from now through the draft. The Rangers are in an unprecedented position where they can revamp this entire organization within two years.

Analyzing this team's future core is exciting. We have three blue-chip prospects in our system (Chytil, Andersson, Shestyorkin) and a decent 25 and under core, as well as pieces like Kreider and Shattenkirk who will still produce at their current level when the team is ready to compete again.

First things first, fire AV. Team won't go anywhere with him at the helm.

Zuccarello would be a great add for a contender. Boston. Could we get DeBrusk and a 1st out of them? If so, do it.

Send Grabner to Nashville. His speed and versatility is invaluable for a deep playoff run. Depth scoring. Dante Fabbro and a 3rd round pick as a return.

Nash has to be moved. I think Anaheim would bite. Retain half his salary and acquire their 1st rounder.

Holden and DD can be of use to bubble teams looking for extra depth. Walking away with a 4th and a 5th would be a victory.

I think a McDonagh trade, as painful as it would be to move him, is the right move. Trade him to Vancouver for Olli Juolevi and Vancouver's 1st at the draft.

Draft day. Due to injuries and a deadline day sell off, the Rangers hold the 9th overall selection. Vancouver has the 7th overall pick. Boston picks 27th. Anaheim 29th.

Trade the 9th overall and the 27th overall for pick #3 or 4.

Draft Filip Zadina. Oliver Wahlstrom at #7. Pick Jett Woo at #29. Take chances on some skill players in the second and third round.

Suddenly you have all of these players with legitimate NHL potential under 25

C -- Filip Chytil, Mika Zibanejad, Lias Andersson, Boo Nieves, Gabriel Fontaine
RW -- Filip Zadina, Pavel Buchnevich, Jake DeBrusk, Ty Ronning
LW -- Oliver Wahlstrom, JT Miller, Jimmy Vesey, Vinni Lettieri
D -- Brady Skjei, Olli Juolevi, Jett Woo, Dante Fabbro, Tony DeAngelo, Neal Pionk, Sean Day, Ryan Graves, Brandon Crawley
G -- Igor Shestyorkin, Adam Huska

Add to that players such as Kreider, Hayes, Shattenkirk, Smith who are all under the age of 30.

You can add some UFAs to augment the young guys. There will be growing pains. But with an embarrassment of riches in the prospect pool, you set yourself up with a world of possibilities. In today's NHL, cost controlled assets are insanely valuable and this organization could go from bottom tier to top tier in a matter of months in that regard.

A little much going on here. I'll say it again if I were going to fire AV I wouldn't fire him until the season was over. Reason for that is I wouldn't want Arniel or Ruff thinking they were going to be the next coach. I'd want to conduct my own coaching search and I'd take my time if AV's losing his job is what it comes to. So to me that's not a first things first.

Boston's going to hedge on DeBrusk. They'll want both him and Zucc for the playoffs if Zucc ends up there anyway. They have plenty of other forward and D prospects.

But anyway picking teams for any of Grabner, Nash, Zuccarello, McDonagh it could be any playoff bound team--you take the best offer you get. I don't see McDonagh going to Vancouver. I see McDonagh going to a playoff team. I think the Rangers best chance to maximize his value is to a playoff team. I also don't think the #9 and #27 necessarily get you the #3 or #4. Like last year right now there are 6 to 8 guys who stand out and #9 is kind of like missing that cut. In any case with the draft lottery you can't really know for sure how the non-playoff draft slots are going to go. The worst record is not necessarily picking 1st or 2nd.

 

[TheTakedown]

There is a school of thought that you can win in this league without an Elite defensemen on the backend.

That said, the only GM that really pulled that off is Jimmy Rutheford, and one season that was due to an injury to Letang.

I think the McD trade winds come up for the following reasons:

• He's a high value return- Only roster player that would return a star level package for team that is depleted of depth.
• The captaincy and McTruck are not a good fit. Never was... and he's not the type of leader that this org needs.
• They feel that can ice 6 middle six guys that can skate and win. Which is something that they don't have... but that's more attainable than top pair guys.
• Mileage concerns. Guys played a lot of hard miles and minutes... and they don't feel he's got 5-7 more years of that.

That's reasonable.

Now you want to look at the return you can get for him. IMO... you need a really good young defenseman coming back.

That's a Jacob Larrson, a Olli Juelevi... a guy that can come in and play mistake free 23 minutes a night.

Then you want a player that is going to play an important role if it not a front line player... That's a cost controlled asset that kill penalties and play a hard reliable 5v5 game.

Now you get to the picks. 1st is a must.

Then it's a sweetener to depend on what you got in terms of the players coming back in the trade.

If you get that.... you trade McDonagh.

You won't replace him... but you can replace his minutes.. and if you're doing that while augmenting other slots in the organization... then you are okay.

On to Zucc:

IMO he's a guy you move by the draft, and you make it easy for the acquiring team. Here's why:

• Guys like him won't age well. This isn't an athletic freak of nature like MSL. The speed isn't there. The legs aren't there.
• The return for him won't be mind blowing, but 50-60 point wingers will get you a prospect and a 1st/2nd. You can find a minute eater in the trade, but not a point replacement. The Rangers unfortunately don't have the offensive depth... but hey you can sign a guy that adds to the prospect to solve for the depth.
• Culture change. Too nice of a guy... I love the moxy and the character... but I want a tougher locker room, and Zucc is too chummy for a *****y locker room.

In terms of return:

You take a safe middle six prospect and a 1st... or a guy like Kyrou on a 1 for 1. I for one would prefer the latter. There is going to be a contender that will make an over the top move, and the Rangers can afford to retain and pull the trigger.

Not saying he'll get that, but if you get a really good junior player but that's what you should look for.

Onto Grabner:

He's a must trade... and he's got some (not so) advanced stats that GM's pay a premium for. If you wanna know, that isn't Corsi. It's something else because relative to the league... Grabner... with his weaker competition... reaps those minutes.

• They need to start a bidding process for him. This is the only rental that the Rangers will get an overpayment for.
• The late 1st isn't out of the question. I would take a 2nd if there is a decent prospect coming back. A 3rd if it's a prospect with higher upside.
• You negotiate with every major contender and start a bidding war early.
• You pull the trigger before the trade-deadline to maxmize the Nash deal... why?
• You increased the contender's need and urgency by moving a valuable playoff piece. Reward the buyer paying a premium... jack up the rest.

If the return is a NHL body & 1st... you pull the trigger.

Then you offer Grabs a 3 year $3.3M deal in free agency... and let him be a fan favorite.

Holden

I may be in the minority here, but I think he can surprise with the return. If you look at the market for defensemen... No 5 defensemen... at the deadline on a cheap deal... there has been overpayment.

• You wait to deal him.
• You wait for an injury with a contender. This is the only way to get a premium for this guy.
• You get AV to play the hell out of him on the PK. Shut and do it Alain.
• Then you go to market with him before the deadline.
• Don't even bother negotiating with his agent. His agent has leverage from the stats from last season. You use those stats as leverage against other teams.

Hold for a 2nd. Don't bite for the collective group think on this board and Larry's copy paste article for a 4th. If you don't get it... wait till 2 PM at the deadline and cut bait.

DD.

• He plays center. You go from a 7th to a 6th just on that alone.
• Throw in a conditional based on games played to get a higher pick.

On Nash.

• Start whipping Rick to apply himself for the next several weeks.
• Use a conflated value to establish his market price.
• Hell make a highlight reel and send to GM's and remind them he's paying for a contract.
• Rick... you've got to apply full effort for 4-5 months for another big contract.
• Set up a call with Eric Staal to motivate Rick into one last good stretch run. Eric atleast got his **** together... Rangers need Rick to do it for a couple of more weeks and then who gives a ****... it's not like Rick ever did on a consistent basis.

Value for Nash is going to be a 1st and a prospect. It should be higher... but no GM in their right mind will pay for that.

James Neal & EKane will be the premium rentals... with the former not available at the moment.

You negotiate with all the EKane bidders... price down below EKane. Pull the trigger.

Late first. NHL Ready Prospect.

If you get that star prospect in return... shift to a lower pick.

I'm lumping all of these together so that everyone sees them.

Some fantastic assets coming back. You're looking at an eventual McD replacement, at least 2 1st round picks, couple of 2nd round picks, couple of mid round picks, and at least one top prospect, if not two.

 

[Trxjw]

I don't think theres a single person in the entire organization who thinks the Rangers shouldn't be a competitive team next season. Not with Shattenkirk and Hank. Gorton intends to retool on the fly. Moving McD and Zucc is on the extreme side of that, but if a premium prospect D is coming back in those or another deal this offseason, then we could still ice a decent top-4 next season, and for seasons to come.

Then they're setting themselves up for failure. Simple as that.

 

[TheTakedown]

Did he? 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Kamenev, Girard & Bowers? What was his original asking price? 28 first rounders?

He was definitely asking for Sergachev+++ at one point.

Sakic hit a grandslam. Even if the Avs don't make the playoffs its quite obvious that team has taken a different more positive direction since trading Duchene. Plus they added a 19 year old who looks NHL capable already in Girard.
Plus all those picks and another first in Bowers...Damn.
I hope JG can get even close to what Sakic was able to get for Duchene. The best trade not made in Rangers history can be the trade we didn't make for Duchene. Thank Goodness.

Sakic got SIX pieces, 3 of them are NHL ready pieces for basically Stepan minus the clauses.

If that is the case, McDonagh brings back at least a Sergachev, a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, an immediate roster replacement, and a throwaway prospect.

 

[Avery16]

Brooks tonight on Miller, Vesey, and …. John Gilmour:
https://nypost.com/2018/01/29/rangers-have-playoff-number-to-hit-and-its-not-impossible/

 

[Avery16]

Brooks tonight on Miller, Vesey, and …. John Gilmour:
https://nypost.com/2018/01/29/rangers-have-playoff-number-to-hit-and-its-not-impossible/

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I would be absolutely shocked if Gilmour gets called up this season

And I think Brooks is under selling what it would take to sign Miller long term.

 

[Elliman]

Nash @ 50% for 2018 first and a conditional 2019 first rounder if said team wins the cup. If not, pick becomes a 3rd.
Grabner @ 50% for 2019 1st
DD for 18’ 5th rounder
Holden for 19’ 2nd rounder
Carey for 18’ 6th rounder

Don’t see anyone taking Smith or Staal.
No reason to move Ryan or Zucc until draft unless it’s an incredible overpayment.


Kreider - Zibanejad - Zuccarello
Miller - Hayes - Buchnevich
Vesey - Anderson - Fast
McLeod - Chytil- Selleck

McDonagh - Shattenkirk
Skjei - TDA
Gilmour - Staal/Smith

Hank
Potato

 

[Nickmo82]

Nash @ 50% for 2018 first and a conditional 2019 first rounder if said team wins the cup. If not, pick becomes a 3rd.
Grabner @ 50% for 2019 1st
DD for 18’ 5th rounder
Holden for 19’ 2nd rounder
Carey for 18’ 6th rounder

Don’t see anyone taking Smith or Staal.
No reason to move Ryan or Zucc until draft unless it’s an incredible overpayment.


Kreider - Zibanejad - Zuccarello
Miller - Hayes - Buchnevich
Vesey - Anderson - Fast
McLeod - Chytil- Selleck

McDonagh - Shattenkirk
Skjei - TDA
Gilmour - Staal/Smith

Hank
Potato

Come on. Potato is a 3rd string goalie at best.

 

[Beacon]

If your going to trade McDonagh it has to be the perfect deal.

When Beezer was the same age as McDonagh now, Neil Smith decided to trade him because Richter emerged as clearly capable as a starter. Smith searched for the perfect trade for over a year and refused to trade VBK until he found that trade. Eventually, he got to the 1993 expansion draft and had to deal Beezer for Doug Lidster, by then an aging #7 defenseman.

A more recent, but less extreme example of that was Talbot. Apparently there was a first round option available, but the Rangers went chasing something better and got very little at the end.

 

[Ola]

Atrocious...hmm

Shattenkirk hurt all year
Mac has been banged up
ADA hasnt been with the team most of the year
Smith was just fine as part of the group last year. Has had a bad year
Skjei has been ok

Yea...not atrocious.

Smith was fine, but not much more last season. There was a notion that he played good top 4 hockey back then but I didn't agree with it. He didn't get tough defensive minutes and when he did he struggled as a lefty on the right side. He isn't scoring a lot, he isn't moving the puck really well and as a lefty he is flawed defensively. He is OK+ with attitude. I like Smith, think he is a fine D. But we made a big commitment with him and I am not in love with it and I wasn't last spring either...

 

[Beacon]

Once you decide that you have to have a premium D prospect coming back in a McDonagh deal you've already shot yourself in the foot.

Just as you always draft a BPA, Gorton should take the best prospect/rookie available, regardless of position. There are too many long-term holes to care that much about the position or the style of the player, just get the best package available.

 

[Ola]

Other than not being that team that moves recently signed UFA players that took discount to sin here, there is no reason NOT to dange him. Point conceded

He's not going to command the kind of return that both McD and Zuccs will.

Moving these two are franchise altering moves Shattenkirk doesn't fall into the same category.

I have no alegience to any one player on this team. I think they are all in the same boat as not good enough to get the job done

I agree.

However, I do think Shatty would have more value at the draft than Zucc. The Cap is going up a lot. Getting that RHS PPQB is not easy and there are always teams out there willing to go the distance to get that to be able to ice a functioning PP. Just look at the UFA many of these guys get that are more or less half way to a wheel chair.

At the draft, many teams can afford Shatty. A 5-10 teams will be in the market for someone like him. Shatty will be 29 with three years remaining at 6.65m per. The options will be like Mike Green. Try to trade for someone like Vaatanen.

Why are we a team that will not trade a signed UFA but will consider trading a heart of the franchise type of guy like Zucc? 1 cup in 75 years -- the reason for that starts with the answer to that question. No doubt whatsoever.

 

[Trxjw]

Just as you always draft a BPA, Gorton should take the best prospect/rookie available, regardless of position. There are too many long-term holes to care that much about the position or the style of the player, just get the best package available.

Yep. Make your deals for the best pieces you can get. Sort the rest out later. You can always trade good, young players and picks if you have a surplus.

 

[darko]

We finally get a PPQB and people want to trade him.

 

[RangerBoy]

IMO Gorton isn't looking to trade big pieces for picks. He's looking to Erat for Forsberg somebody with Nash. And if he trades his biggest piece, McDonagh, it's going to take a huge overpayment including NHL ready talent. He's not looking to rebuild and strip it all down to the bones and rebuild entirely with picks.

Erat had another season left on his contract. Nash is a free agent.

Gorton can take a stand about demanding X for McDonagh but reality will set in if he can't get his asking price. What is Gorton going to do? Keep McDonagh and lose him for nothing in free agency or wait until this time next year and trade McDonagh for a 1st round pick as a rental. It obvious that the Rangers don't want to pay him.

 

[RangerBoy]

McDonagh's contractual status does limit his value. The Blues tried to trade Shattenkirk but every team wanted to sign him to a contract extension. He wasn't interested in signing the extension.

Edmonton wanted Shattenkirk. They discussed a Hall for Shattenkirk trade at the draft contingent on a new contract extension on July 1.

Arizona wanted Shattenkirk. They couldn't agree on a contract extension.

Tampa Bay wanted Shattenkirk. 7 years/$42M. It was Shattenkirk to TB for either Drouin or Tyler Johnson. Shattenkirk wouldn't sign the extension.

The Rangers trade McDonagh by the trading deadline. The acquiring team can't open contract discussions with McDonagh. He can't sign an extension until July 1. Why would McDonagh sign anything without playing somewhere first? This is the same guy who wanted to wait until going to Rangers prospects camp before signing with them. Remember that situation. Maybe the Rangers can make a future 202o pick contingent on McDonagh signing with the acquiring team.

 

[Ola]

I would be absolutely shocked if Gilmour gets called up this season

And I think Brooks is under selling what it would take to sign Miller long term.

He was exposed last season playing under Kenny G on the worst team in the AHL and I think he still has a bit of a bad rep due to it, but like I've said from Day 1 he is a very gifted defender. He has great speed and its impressive how fast he plays the game.

I am telling you guys, we have good depth on the blueline in HFD. Much better than people give credit for. So many are like, oh we need Brandon Smith and Shatty and Staal and co because otherwise we have nobody on the blueline.

Look at Samuel Girardi in Colorado. I think John Gilmour is better than him, both offensively but also defensively.

Ryan Graves is more or less ready to play a regular shift as a 5-6 D. On top of that, being able to get by, he has a heck of a shot.

Tony DeAngelo is a mess at times but has a ton of offensive ability. You make your own bed with a kid like that, to 90% at least. We can't stick him in HFD and require that he will play when he is perfect, period. So many of the better offensive Ds in this league was a complete mess defensively to be honest for many seasons when they broke into the league. You got to let them play to their strengths and grow into it to a certain extent. That includes giving TDA PP time.

Neal Pionk is certainly the most underrated of the bunch, next to John Gilmour maybe. Pionk is so smart and he has so much hockey in him. He isn't the biggest guy, think 5'11 is generous if anything, you watch him defensively and wonder how he will get by in some situations. It doesn't matter, he solves 4/5 situations better than you expect. Playbook.

He is very talented offensively -- but maybe a tad shy to pull the trigger and really make his plays count. But people look at his stats in HFD, not bad with 16 pts in 45 games, and think that he isn't playing well offensively. But he is, he would have 25-30 pts with constant top PP time and a little more luck. He has 1 goal in 80 shots and basically 1 goal for every 7-8 times he have hit a post... Better stats will come, and he does compete for PP time with Sproul (top 3-5 vet PPQB in the AHL), TDA, Graves with the hardest shot in the AHL and Gilmour. He plays some PP, but not a ton.

He is also a decent fighter, especially for his size, and plays a gritty game. Love that kid.

My point is that we need to open up some spots for these kids. In many aspects, these kids would give us a more fresh and modern approach that would be an upgrade over what we currently get.