Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)
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- Apr 16, 2012
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1) I didn't say he WAS one of our best 13 when healthy, I said he's 21 and NOT a finished project and that it was a good bet that he WILL be a solid 4th liner SOME DAY (maybe a couple of more seasons when he's a ripe old 23...)
2) he was effective in his 4th line, physical, distracting to the other team, role. How does 2 points in 23m38s of ice time stack up against the average 4th liner? Just 2 points in 17 games played projects to 10 points in 82... not out of whack for a 4th liner especially one that was getting very limited minutes. And that was the unfinished product.
The difference here is you are talking about Rempe as if this is what he IS and will get no better, I'm talking about his FUTURE. a 6'8" 21 year old has a whole lot of developing, growing into his body, still to do. He's nowhere near a finished project.
- Aug 5, 2010
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Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
People were saying the same all winter and continue to be ignored.
Zibanejad is outplayed by the other team's top center almost every night.
If he's going to be here, which if we're being serious and realistic, he is, then let's get him out of a role he can't handle.
NYR Viper
Registered User
So moves that make sense, assuming UFA's play ball:
Trades:
Kakko to Anaheim for the EDM 1st + ANA 2nd
Lindgren to Utah for UTAH 2nd '24 + NYR 2nd '25 + NYR 3rd '25
Signings:
Dakota Joshua
4 years @ $3.25m
Brenden Dillon
2 years @ $2.25m
IF they can move Trouba, then a similar swap for Matt Roy would intrigue me.
We all agree?
Trades:
Kakko to Anaheim for the EDM 1st + ANA 2nd
Lindgren to Utah for UTAH 2nd '24 + NYR 2nd '25 + NYR 3rd '25
Signings:
Dakota Joshua
4 years @ $3.25m
Brenden Dillon
2 years @ $2.25m
IF they can move Trouba, then a similar swap for Matt Roy would intrigue me.
We all agree?
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
No, somebody is going to yell at you about something or other.
EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
We are absolutely bending over both teams and both free agents in these moves LOL
McRanger92
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2017
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NYR Viper
Registered User
MrAlmost
Beer league hero.
- Jun 3, 2010
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A likely scenario I can think of cause we arent really an outside the box exciting team:
1. Trade Lindgren and Kakko to recoup picks
2. Draft some centers and defense
3. Sign Dillion
4. Weigh the options of signing a winger that might help. Joshua, Bertuzzi, JAM, Guentzal, etc.
I wouldn't necessarily be upset with that.
1. Trade Lindgren and Kakko to recoup picks
2. Draft some centers and defense
3. Sign Dillion
4. Weigh the options of signing a winger that might help. Joshua, Bertuzzi, JAM, Guentzal, etc.
I wouldn't necessarily be upset with that.
You never posed a question. I said Chatfield aint signing for $1m, you claimed he isn't good and is replaceable with any other 6-7 dman (which he isn't), and I responded that he is better than Ryan Lindgren.
What are you asking?
McRanger92
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2017
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I was being facetious. I put Chatfield in as a place holder 6/7 defenseman and you brought up Lindgren for some reason. The original post I had Lindgren wasnt even on the roster.
noncents
Registered User
- Feb 25, 2022
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i'm not convinced that Kakko can't be a better 3rd liner on this team than a Garnet Hathaway or Dakota Joshua.
McRanger92
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2017
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He'd have to start doing something (anything!) on the ice for me to believe this. It's probably time to swallow the big ol' horse pill that Kakko flatlining despite the opportunities (the last 3 years specifically) is one of the biggest reasons why the teams ceiling is capped at the ECF, Trouba being the other. We've traded a bunch of assets and gone for half measures at the trade deadline because Drury wants it to work so bad with Kakko. I dont blame him for exploring every avenue with the guy but the results have spoken for themselves. He's stinky and the Rangers have run out of runway to live with it imo.
It’s funny. Less than 365 days ago, these exact same comments were all about laf.
Kakko had “turned a corner” and 40 points at even strength was a clear sign he was ready for more.
everyone agrees that Mika and Ck struggled this year, and our third line was a black hole of offense because of bonino and wennberg.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
EV goals for and goals against please. I don’t think those numbers point to “outplayed almost every night”
1. The Rangers are not trading for picks.
2. See: 1
3. Sounds good
4. Don’t see how they are making room for Guentzel
Atax
Registered User
- Apr 7, 2011
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Guess it depends when it happened, but wish we put him on the LTIR and rested him up.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
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It was likely the Jensen knee on knee during the Caps series. The photo in the X post shows a Caps home leg sock.
Atax
Registered User
- Apr 7, 2011
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Fair, but he looked injured even before the playoffs.
bleedblue94
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2004
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I'll do the same:
You -
Me *
-Fox has never been toolsy. If you didn't have a problem with it before, then you're just looking to have a problem with it to absolve Lindgren. Nothing in his game really fell off his year other than his partner and ES chance generation which again, we've gone over.
* I know that he's never been a toolsy player, and I'm not trying to use that to absolve lindgren so stop trying to manipulate my wording. I literally said that I don't have an issue with Lindgren because we all know what he is and he's consistently the same player so bitching about it now to the extent that people are when they haven't in the past to me is absurd. You brought up regression, I brought up the fact that I look at Fox and would like to actually see him develop his tools more and that from that standpoint I've been more disappointed with Fox this past year and then I was lindgren. Lindgren was exactly what I expected, Fox had room to ad in his personal tools and personal development to expand his effectiveness. The point here is that lindgren is already hit his ceiling, and for as good as Fox's based on his age I expected him to take another step. Taking a step isn't just about getting more points, there's other things that are involved in that and I think that he has a lot of room left to become even better than he is. That's why I was disappointed
- Lindgren absolutely has a negative impact on Fox's offensive production. If he didn't, he wouldn't be getting benched every time they need a goal. You can't have it both ways.
* By that logic then you're also acknowledging that fox is a terrible defensive player because if he wasn't then he wouldn't be being benched at the end of games or on the PK. Fair enough?
- Your examples from decades ago continue to be irrelevant, the game is different now. The good defense first defensemen are all adequate if not very good at getting the puck up ice and most of them are pretty good or just good outright at offense and fall into the 2 way category. Lindgren has never been good at either. It's why I've wanted him off the top pair before this year. His heavy regression is why I want him off the roster entirely. His offense was as bad as it always was this year, his defense is what fell off a cliff. No one bled chances against more than he did.
* I'm not going to go through and list the other 31 teams top pairings, I don't think it's really necessary because you're going through hyperbole right now by trying to say that Lindgren is the second worst defenseman on a top pyram in the NHL. That's what you said in an earlier post and it's ridiculous. It's also asinine to suggest that no other team other than the rangers have a defensive defenseman paired with an offensive defenseman on their top pairing. Not every team in the league can trout out makar and tires as a top pair. If you actually stop trying to manipulate to get to a point in this argument you could easily come up with 10 teams right off the bat that have at least one defenseman on their top pairing that is worse than lindgren.
- He'll get 4+ million because thats how NHL salaries work. His QO is 3.6. He isn't making a shade more than that and definitely is not going to agree to get non tendered to sign for less a year than he just made.
* I know how the finances work, I've been the one that's been saying that he's going to get a raise. Other people are saying he's only worth $2 million which is absolutely stupid. If you've listened to anybody talking about what the market's like for the available ufas this summer you would be puking on your own shoes. The numbers that are getting kicked around for players like Dillon right now are insane. The reason it's happening is that there just aren't enough defensemen capable of actually playing 20 minutes of game and filling top 4D slots in the league as it's gotten bigger. So even these marginal top four defensemen are going to be paid significantly. People can bitch and moan about lindgren all they want bought at the end of the day whether it's here or somewhere else he's going to be a top four defenseman somewhere. Additionally if it's not going to be here, then the rangers are going to have to go find another one to fill his spot and potentially pay that player $5 or 6 million a year which they can't even afford. This is part of why when people start complaining about the players that are here and what they make and how they want to get rid of that player I always ask who are you going to get to fill that and how are you going to get them and afford them. Most people gloss over that and just only want to focus on getting rid of somebody but they never stop and actually come up with a concrete and feasible option to replace that player that the team can actually afford in salary and in asset cost. You're either going to be trading assets away to try to get a player that is technically controllable and isn't going to cost you an arm and a leg on your cap, or you're going to overpay for a player in free agency. This organization doesn't exactly have a ton of asset Capital to piss away right now for random players that they hope will be better than what they have here now, nor do they have the cap space to go get into bidding wars for unrestricted free agents. That's the exact reason why I'm so hesitant to just shit all over Lindgren and say get him out of here and then hope that we can find somebody else to fill the role. If we had some better defensive depth in our system then it could be more feasible but we don't. This is part of the reason why I have suggested if they do decide to trade kakko that they look at a team like the ducks which has a ton of high quality young defenseman that are on their way and try to see if they can make a swap there.
- I do enjoy how you completely avoided answering this so I'll ask it again. If the top 10 D-men in the league, who has a partner weaker than the one who has been attached to Fox? If you think teams split their top guys (they usually don't btw) then this should be an easy exercise for you. I already gave you the one example I think you can make a case for and I'll tell you, it's the ONLY one that exists.
- Lindgren struggled independent of every other D on this team. No one is frustrated with how him or how he's being used because other guys struggled against Florida. We're frustrated with him and how he's used because he struggled for 82 games and 3 rounds of the playoffs.
Hyperbole, And you could easily look at the Florida series and say that Miller played worse than he did. If you actually watch that series objectively Miller consistently panicked with the park, turned it over, chucked it into the middle of the ice and he was a guy that the team needed to rely on to do more because he has the tools to do more. Lindgren literally did what he can and what he is, it's not his fault that other people on here for some reason expect him to be more than what he is. I'm not absolving him, for some reason people still don't want to acknowledge the fact that he goes back from the majority of the pucks and his partner does absolutely nothing to hold up for chucking pressure to help him. It's been a theme of that pairing for 3 years at least and it shouldn't be a surprise to anybody that the first guy back to get a puck that doesn't have anybody slowing down for checking is going to get absolutely blown up every time or he's going to just Chuck the puck away because he's under pressure. Even good defenseman struggle in that situation if they don't have teammates passively interfering with fore checkers and just getting into the way to slow them down. Does that fix everything that's wrong with lindgren and his ability to transition to Puck quickly and effectively, absolutely not. But does it amplify the issues that he has, you bet!
- The one thing I do agree with you on is improving the quality of the D overall. Thats a must for this team this off season. Part of that plan should include moving on from Lindgren who is in over his head playing top 4 minutes and will make too much money to play on a bottom pair.
* I think there's two focuses for this. The first one is the structure of our forwards and what we do on breakouts has got to change. For some stupid reason this organization continues putting the wingers stretched up by the red line for these fire passes from below the circles in the defensive zone up to those wingers so that they can just touch and chip it into the other end, But it does absolutely nothing if the weak side wingers aren't already crashing into the offensive zone and able to immediately get pressure on the puck, otherwise it's basically just a free breakout for the other team. For some reason this organization has employed this for years and multiple coaching staffs, and we rarely have wingers down low and center's curling for quick support passes. The team tried to do it in the first couple of games against Florida and their forwards just couldn't even accept those little passes and there were defensemen that couldn't hit sticks and just kept shooting it into the feet of the forwards. It's not surprising that they struggled with it since they didn't really do it for the majority of the season and the majority of the first two rounds, but it's got to change.
Maybe part of it is because of the personnel on the defense and on the wings, and the fact that the majority of the players on this roster do not have the softest hands to handle those little 5 or 6-ft passes, and if that's the case the hierarchy has to identify it and figure out that they need to change it. In the playoffs every team started having their defenseman stand up to those wingers that were by the red line and basically picking off those passes or completely disrupting them. Once the defense doesn't have the option to make that play and they're forced to try to make shorter passes in their own zone without multiple options it becomes really easy for the fore checking team to identify The available options to our defense and neutralize them, and for the most part our defense does not have the ability to skate the puck out of our own zone, and that includes Fox.
And when you look at our defense it's pretty much landlocked right now except for replacing Gustafson. Trouba to me is a much bigger problem right now than lindgren. Trouba gets paid to be a top four defenseman And right now he's got two younger, faster, more mobile, and more offensive defenseman ahead of him on the right side. I'll go back to what I said before, if you're going to move Lindgren then you have to figure out a top four LD to fill his spot. If you move trouba then you're only looking for a bottom pair RD which will be much easier to fill.
I'm not a big fan at all about having Fox and Jones in the same top six based on what happens in the playoffs because year after year we see small defensemen just get eaten alive unless they're absolutely elite and even then they often have way more trouble in the playoffs than they do in the regular season. So I see our d next year looking like:
? Fox
Miller Schneider
Lindgren ?/jones
Or
? Fox
Miller Schneider
?/jones Trouba
I don't think that both Lindgren and Trouba will be gone next year. If that happened then literally half of the teams top 6 d would be gone. Rarely does that happen and cap wise it would be very difficult to find 2 quality d to bring in here that won't decimate the team structure. Remember that ufas will want term to go with the dollars, and you can't do that since you are staring at laffy and Igor extensions.
The article confirms it was the Jenson hit. Fox does say it took him a while to get back to 100% when he came back after the initial knee injury earlier in the year.
effen
Registered User
- Jun 27, 2003
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I'd give Dakota Joshua 4/16 and not think twice about it. Your bottom six gets really big and really hard to play against with him, Edstrom, Rempe, Cuylle, Kakk-hahahahahha whew got a little high on my own supply there.
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