Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[The Crypto Guy]

Make sure you guys are including KK back in your linesups for next season

 

[IDvsEGO]

If u can get brady tkachuk then do it. You can recoup assets by ditching kreider.

Kreider should not factor into getting tkachuk

So we get tkachuk who’s signed at 8+
And lose Kreider who’s signed at 6.5 even tho the difference in production is something like 15 points a season?
15 points a season is not worth 2m in cap space a year.

 

[bhamill]

I think I'm in the camp of rated. Not over rating or under rating.

1. He'd have to play RW. He could have great success with Kreider or any other player that skates the puck and drops it off to a player waiting on the blueline. Outside of Panarin, Trochek, and Laf, I think our players aren't that good at bring the puck into from that drop pass position and frequently have to send it around to the opposite wing who usually lets it go by and to the point which works like 60% of time in the regular season and like 10% of the time during the playoffs. Brady is someone who can bull his way along the boards and create openings.

I agree, for his cap and the assets you'd have toe cede to acquire him, unless you are dumping salary somehow (doubtful), you might as well just spend that AAV on Guentzel or Reinhart and YOLO the cap. Brady would cost a 1st, Perrault, Cuylle, and Schneider. It's not a deal we make.

2. +1 Brady plays Kreider's exact position on the PP. What you can do is have him on the right dot for one timers and have him and Kreider cycle that position to cause chaos. I think Brady has a decent one timer. I'm not sure that necessarily improves the PP. Mika has stopped dishing those fake slap shot passes to Kreider that got so many goals. But Mika seems to fumble all his passes on the PP these days. I think Panarin can take over Mika's spot as he did for half a season. But this also means no Laf on PP1. Unless PP1 loses efficiency, I don't see Lav balancing out ice time with PP2.

3. Not nearly as good as Matt. But it does seem like a lot of people make Brady to be not nearly as bad as he is. He is a capable point per game player who takes dumb penalties but you get that all the time with these hyper physical players.

Conclusion -
would he be a great add? YES
is there a world where the asset management to acquire Brady makes any sense? NO
does he improve our PP? kinda complicates things and pushes Laf out of PP1
salary cap? $8.2M for 4 more years is pretty good for a player of his caliber. I'm not much a cap monkey but we'll have to find a way to trim all our bad contracts (Trouba, Goodrow to start with) to even have that conversation and I don't see Ottawa taking those on.

reasonable post

 

[effen]

Make sure you guys are including KK back in your linesups for next season

Kakko's favorite snack is plain white bread with a glass of water on the side for dippin'.

 

[Ruggs225]

So we get tkachuk who’s signed at 8+
And lose Kreider who’s signed at 6.5 even tho the difference in production is something like 15 points a season?
15 points a season is not worth 2m in cap space a year.

One is 24 the other is like 34z who so u think is more likely to maintain their point production. Who would have the future and who is the past. There is more to go into the calculation than just points.

Also 15 pts is like a 4th liner which js about $2m in cap space. But that is besides the point.

 

[effen]

Still think after the the D that one of the big 3 board huggers gotta go for someone who is will take and own space in the slot on a consistent basis 5 on 5.

I do not believe you can win a Cup with the current makeup of the Rangers best forwards unless ALL the Gritty McGrits perform way over expectation at once.

 

[Lion Hound]

Imagine starting the playoff series against the Panthers with Brady Tkachuk on line one for 20 +minutes a game . I think he would be of more benefit than any forward we had going in that series and would inflict as much if not more punishment then both Matthew Tkachuk and Bennett combined . We need to be harder to play against and that is what Tkachul brings......and you gotta give to get . What a player !!!

Certain players are just wired differently. Tkachuk is one of them. Yep, your going to get some bad penalties. He plays with a super high level of emotion. The good that he would bring i think would totally outweigh any of the bad attributes.

Im in the camp that this current core cannot and will not get this done. I think there were moves that would have helped, but it would have cost. Guentzel specifically would have been really tough to contain. I think maybe that would have been the one move that got it done. But that's come and gone.

Rangers have moveable parts but that in itself isnt enough to get it done. Tkachuk would need to want out of Ottawa and force the teams hand. If he did, Drury should be all over it.

Unpopular for the board, however I think it would need to be a trade involving Fox. Norris winner. Good contract. Protected w/out the NMC garbage. If Tkachuk was to come available and the Rangers offer was Adam Fox they would have a real good chance of getting him.

But Tkachuk, would also just totally clog up an already loaded LW.

Kredier who is my fav Ranger is the other very tradeable asset. Excellent contract with some term. You cant replace Fox on the D. But you will be able to land a very good RD if #20 was tossed in the mix. No idea what the 15 teams are on his list however... What about a deal with the Pens for Erik Karlsson? Pens reatin some money. Rangers add Kakko, pens add maybe a pick or another peice? Or maybe a deal to the Kings for Doughty? Of course Kings would need to retain. He's another player who has that will to win games at any cost. Having Quick for another year here could help.

One more smaller tweak. Lindgren to his hometown. Jake Middleton the return. Middleton is a free agent at the end of next season. Lindgren the RFA, could resign a deal with the Wild.

Those are hockey trades. Core shakeup types of moves.

 

[bhamill]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1801328266994979302

Figured he'd get the $2.4m "show me" qualifier. Very good!

 

[noncents]

Certain players are just wired differently. Tkachuk is one of them. Yep, your going to get some bad penalties. He plays with a super high level of emotion. The good that he would bring i think would totally outweigh any of the bad attributes.

Im in the camp that this current core cannot and will not get this done. I think there were moves that would have helped, but it would have cost. Guentzel specifically would have been really tough to contain. I think maybe that would have been the one move that got it done. But that's come and gone.

Rangers have moveable parts but that in itself isnt enough to get it done. Tkachuk would need to want out of Ottawa and force the teams hand. If he did, Drury should be all over it.

Unpopular for the board, however I think it would need to be a trade involving Fox. Norris winner. Good contract. Protected w/out the NMC garbage. If Tkachuk was to come available and the Rangers offer was Adam Fox they would have a real good chance of getting him.

But Tkachuk, would also just totally clog up an already loaded LW.

Kredier who is my fav Ranger is the other very tradeable asset. Excellent contract with some term. You cant replace Fox on the D. But you will be able to land a very good RD if #20 was tossed in the mix. No idea what the 15 teams are on his list however... What about a deal with the Pens for Erik Karlsson? Pens reatin some money. Rangers add Kakko, pens add maybe a pick or another peice? Or maybe a deal to the Kings for Doughty? Of course Kings would need to retain. He's another player who has that will to win games at any cost. Having Quick for another year here could help.

One more smaller tweak. Lindgren to his hometown. Jake Middleton the return. Middleton is a free agent at the end of next season. Lindgren the RFA, could resign a deal with the Wild.

Those are hockey trades. Core shakeup types of moves.

jesus h christ

replacing adam fox with erik karlsson

this is a bridge too far yall.

 

[Raspewtin]

Certain players are just wired differently. Tkachuk is one of them. Yep, your going to get some bad penalties. He plays with a super high level of emotion. The good that he would bring i think would totally outweigh any of the bad attributes.

Im in the camp that this current core cannot and will not get this done. I think there were moves that would have helped, but it would have cost. Guentzel specifically would have been really tough to contain. I think maybe that would have been the one move that got it done. But that's come and gone.

Rangers have moveable parts but that in itself isnt enough to get it done. Tkachuk would need to want out of Ottawa and force the teams hand. If he did, Drury should be all over it.

Unpopular for the board, however I think it would need to be a trade involving Fox. Norris winner. Good contract. Protected w/out the NMC garbage. If Tkachuk was to come available and the Rangers offer was Adam Fox they would have a real good chance of getting him.

But Tkachuk, would also just totally clog up an already loaded LW.

Kredier who is my fav Ranger is the other very tradeable asset. Excellent contract with some term. You cant replace Fox on the D. But you will be able to land a very good RD if #20 was tossed in the mix. No idea what the 15 teams are on his list however... What about a deal with the Pens for Erik Karlsson? Pens reatin some money. Rangers add Kakko, pens add maybe a pick or another peice? Or maybe a deal to the Kings for Doughty? Of course Kings would need to retain. He's another player who has that will to win games at any cost. Having Quick for another year here could help.

One more smaller tweak. Lindgren to his hometown. Jake Middleton the return. Middleton is a free agent at the end of next season. Lindgren the RFA, could resign a deal with the Wild.

Those are hockey trades. Core shakeup types of moves.

this is an honest to god ban worthy post

 

[bleedblue94]

It wasn't better, he just moved his feet more.

Now whether or not he was able to carry his legs further into games is a different story and honestly I don't know the answer to that. He's no faster than he ever was, it was clearly mental for him.

We should be happy that he got over that hurdle but theres no need to attribute it to anything that doesn't exist. We've seen flashes of everything that he did this year in the previous 3, he just did them more consistently. Confidence is an incredible thing.





No one said Fox was stapled to Lindgren all the time so just stop it. The point was that Lindgren drags Fox down 5v5 and was stapled to him there most of the time and when they were split up the results went wildily in opposite directions as they always have. We know they barely play together on the PK. You said that Fox wasn't really in the PK rotation which was false.

Lindgren and Trouba are a bad combo, I'm with you there. I don't think its fair to just point the finger at Trouba though. They're both bad. I have no love for Trouba either.

See above for thoughts on Laf. Not here for this myth.

I hope they don't sign Lindgren at all but he's not going to sign a 1 year deal. He's taken a beating and got popped (and I mean really popped) 10 times this year. This is his best and probably only chance to cash in and secure himself a decent bag so that he can live comfortably for the rest of his life. You know what the going rate is for guys like him, it's going to be 4 or more.

I wouldn't consider all of those guys top 30 defenders but yeah, all of them have better partners than Lindgren with the exception of again, maybe Dahlin and I'll admit I overlooked Seider as well. Chairot is basically a bigger Lindgren.

Do you see a trend amongst those teams though? They're all non playoff teams or wild card teams with the exception of Tampa (Who were basically a WC level team with an amazing PP) who went out and reacquired McDonagh because they know they don't have the juice back there (it's just pissing into the wind at this point for them but what else can they really do?)

It's almost like shitty defensive depth and having too many guys play above their heads isn't a winning formula. Whats worse is Fox is better than all of those guys you mentioned and we've saddled him with a player who is worse than most of those guys are paired with (Fehravarey for instance, is demonstrably better than Lindgren. Thats a guy I'd love to play with Fox) for sure and is debatable for a few others. Thanks for finally taking me up on this though.

Anyway its probably best that we leave this here. It's clear that we don't agree and I'm honestly tired of discussing this any further.




Fair, but I don't think any of those really improved for him either.

We've seen him dance around people and carry the puck up ice before this year, just not at the frequency that it happened.

It wasn't better, he just moved his feet more.

** Give me a break

Now whether or not he was able to carry his legs further into games is a different story and honestly I don't know the answer to that. He's no faster than he ever was, it was clearly mental for him.

**Of course he was. He was in better condition and more fluid skating stride requires less energy to achieve the same result, hence you conserve more energy. This isn't rocket science and anyone that objectively watches laffy this year vs last year can visually see the difference. He was more fluid and less effort/chugging

We should be happy that he got over that hurdle but theres no need to attribute it to anything that doesn't exist. We've seen flashes of everything that he did this year in the previous 3, he just did them more consistently. Confidence is an incredible thing.

**You might be the only person actually trying to argue that his skating didn't get better. I'm not going to argue this with someone that references top speed as a blanket rational for skating quality. Do you think Kendall Coyne is a better skaters than all of the all stars she beat in a single lap speed race? Come on



No one said Fox was stapled to Lindgren all the time so just stop it. The point was that Lindgren drags Fox down 5v5 and was stapled to him there most of the time and when they were split up the results went wildily in opposite directions as they always have. We know they barely play together on the PK. You said that Fox wasn't really in the PK rotation which was false.

** You did in a previous posts, and the whole premise to you complaining even hear that "Lindgren drags fox down" and your complaints that they won't take him off the top pair fees into that. If he's not attached to fox why are you complaining about how he always drags him down. Your going in circles. Fox's role in the pk rotation dropped noticeably and Lindgren/trouba was the main set. If you want to argue wording then okay, but the main point stands. And as has been stated, the main time fox was without Lindgren was late in games when they were pressing for offense. If you want to let stats convince you that fox/Gustafson was a good pairing for a few games then more power to you.



Lindgren and Trouba are a bad combo, I'm with you there. I don't think its fair to just point the finger at Trouba though. They're both bad. I have no love for Trouba either.

** Ha so it's not fair to just point blame at trouba but you're seemingly willing to blame Lindgren for anything that is wrong with this team? Come on. They are terrible together 5v5 since neither can break a puck out. This is why over the past 2 years whenever people say they want fox w miller I always asked who the hell is breaking the puck out for the second pair bc Lindgren/trouba can't. I loved hearing Jones as a top 4 d man or gusto. WOOF



See above for thoughts on Laf. Not here for this myth.

** See above for the nonsense you posted. His skating has been universally acknowledged for improvement. I'm not debating this bc this is on par with the earth is flat...


I hope they don't sign Lindgren at all but he's not going to sign a 1 year deal. He's taken a beating and got popped (and I mean really popped) 10 times this year. This is his best and probably only chance to cash in and secure himself a decent bag so that he can live comfortably for the rest of his life. You know what the going rate is for guys like him, it's going to be 4 or more.

**I know all of this. I said it a long time ago. And I also know that defenseman that are perceived better than lindgren are going to cost a lot more in contract and assets, so I will ask again the biggest question you keep dodging: who are you getting to replace Lindgren in the top 4 LD and what are you paying that player and what are you paying to get that player?


I wouldn't consider all of those guys top 30 defenders but yeah, all of them have better partners than Lindgren with the exception of again, maybe Dahlin and I'll admit I overlooked Seider as well. Chairot is basically a bigger Lindgren.

** Yikes dude


Do you see a trend amongst those teams though? They're all non playoff teams or wild card teams with the exception of Tampa (Who were basically a WC level team with an amazing PP) who went out and reacquired McDonagh because they know they don't have the juice back there (it's just pissing into the wind at this point for them but what else can they really do?)

**And you realize the teams that have two top d on their top pair usually have at least one that is a bargain contract or fell into their lap. You have fox at 9.5m a year, how much are you paying his partner? Also go back to the previous question you keep avoiding about who, how, and what cost for the upgrade. We are cap stressed, are you planning to pay fox's partner 6, 7, or 8m? If so how?

It's almost like shitty defensive depth and having too many guys play above their heads isn't a winning formula. Whats worse is Fox is better than all of those guys you mentioned and we've saddled him with a player who is worse than most of those guys are paired with (Fehravarey for instance, is demonstrably better than Lindgren. Thats a guy I'd love to play with Fox) for sure and is debatable for a few others. Thanks for finally taking me up on this though.

**I didn't actually research anything, literally just tossed it off the top of my head. There are more.


Anyway its probably best that we leave this here. It's clear that we don't agree and I'm honestly tired of discussing this any further.

** YAY, we can agree bc that's actually how I planned to close this until I just saw you say it. Thank you!!

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

As far as 2) you construct a PP1A with him and Laf on it. If there is anything the NJ series last year and the Panthers series this year taught us, it's that we cant be a one trick pony on the PP.
3) is accurate. Matt is a way better hockey player capable of 100+ points, but Brady has his strengths over Matt as well. They aren't the same player for sure. They aren't even the same TYPE of player...

You could do #2 but that’s a lot of money + assets to spend on a guy who is going to to play on pp2.

On 3. Yeah they’re not the same. Matt is awesome, Brady is just good. The one thing I’d give Brady over Matt is that he’s definitely more un hinged and is not a spot picker, he’ll chuck with almost anyone.

 

[bleedblue94]

If we did acquire a Hagelin type I think you play him with Panarin, and then move Laf up.

I think that we are at the point that kreider and zib MUST be split up at 5v5. It's time, it really is. They are best friends but they are at a point that for personal/team good they need to put it aside and go on different lines because zib just defers too much to the chip game that kreider plays and he accomplishes nothing offensively 5v5 anymore.

If you have the same roster here next year then you might be well served to play with something like this for the forward "pairs"
Zib laffy
Panarin Trocheck
Kreider chytil

I would be curious to see if laffy prefers to go back to the lw or if he is comfortable just staying on the rw

I think cuylle is a real wildcard. Because he is so big people forget how young he is and that he was a rookie this year. He is an absolute man-child. I would really be curious to see him with zib laffy or panarin Trocheck

Then big thing the org needs to decide is if they invest their limited cap space into adding forward help to push a couple players down into better roles while trying to find hold with cheap defense adds or do they use their cap space to improve the d and then rely on some young forward to fill out that group?

If you come out of this off-season with two new defensemen in the top 6 and two new forwards in the top 9 then I think you possibly avoid becoming stale. No more Wheeler types. Find some players that need opportunity. This is where pro-scouting comes into play. Nothing should be handed to otter but if he shows well enough they should commit to seeing his development through and dealing with the growing pains. I would say the same thing about Jones but I just don't see a world that any org can win a cup with two defensemen that are 5'9" or smaller. It's just not how teams win in the playoffs.

 

[JohnC]

Unpopular for the board, however I think it would need to be a trade involving Fox. Norris winner. Good contract. Protected w/out the NMC garbage. If Tkachuk was to come available and the Rangers offer was Adam Fox they would have a real good chance of getting him.

That's assuming Florida would even make him available - maybe if they win the cup.

Wait a minute...you mean Brady Tkachuk. Trade Fox for Brady Tkachuk.

 

[bleedblue94]

3) is accurate. Matt is a way better hockey player capable of 100+ points, but Brady has his strengths over Matt as well. They aren't the same player for sure. They aren't even the same TYPE of player...

I think a LOT of what we see from Brady right now is him trying to play a role. He shouldn't have been named captain when he was. Ever since that happened it seems like he's trying to "show" that he's a leader rather then just leading in a manner that people will follow. There is a difference

 

[Peltz]

Unpopular for the board, however I think it would need to be a trade involving Fox. Norris winner. Good contract. Protected w/out the NMC garbage. If Tkachuk was to come available and the Rangers offer was Adam Fox they would have a real good chance of getting him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If you come out of this off-season with two new defensemen in the top 6 and two new forwards in the top 9 then I think you possibly avoid becoming stale. No more Wheeler types. Find some players that need opportunity. This is where pro-scouting comes into play. Nothing should be handed to otter but if he shows well enough they should commit to seeing his development through and dealing with the growing pains. I would say the same thing about Jones but I just don't see a world that any org can win a cup with two defensemen that are 5'9" or smaller. It's just not how teams win in the playoffs.

2?

They wouldn't even have 1 lol.

 

[IDvsEGO]

2?

They wouldn't even have 1 lol.

People think Fox is 5’6 apparently

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Kakko could still be traded but that’s a prove it deal and if there isn’t a hockey trade to be had to upgrade he’s getting another chance.

A lot of these guys are going to have to be the answer themselves. Last year Panarin and Lafreniere were being run out of town and they really rebounded. Can Mika and Kakko do it this year?

 

[bleedblue94]

2?

They wouldn't even have 1 lol.

You're not so naive to look at posted height and weight and actually believe it. Please tell me you're not that naive. Ever small player in the NHL has their size increased on the public notices. This has been going on for decades.

If you think fox is 5 11 and Jones is 5 10 then I have a flying car to sell you...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You're not so naive to look at posted height and weight and actually believe it. Please tell me you're not that naive. Ever small player in the NHL has their size increased on the public notices. This has been going on for decades.

If you think fox is 5 11 and Jones is 5 10 then I have a flying car to sell you...

Knewwww this was coming and had this queued up.

Fox measured in at 5'10".75 at the draft combine. Those measurements are as official as it gets.

2016 Combine Heights & Weights - The Hockey Writers NHL Prospects Latest News, Analysis & More

Curious to know what the height and weight of some of the top prospects are? Look no further. We have the top 40 NA and top 10 European skaters for you.

thehockeywriters.com

#factcheck'd

 

[bleedblue94]

People think Fox is 5’6 apparently

I mean there is something between 5 9 and 5 6, but sure...

 

[bleedblue94]

Knewwww this was coming and had this queued up.

Fox measured in at 5'10".75 at the draft combine. Those measurements are as official as it gets.

2016 Combine Heights & Weights - The Hockey Writers NHL Prospects Latest News, Analysis & More

Curious to know what the height and weight of some of the top prospects are? Look no further. We have the top 40 NA and top 10 European skaters for you.

thehockeywriters.com

#factcheck'd

You also believe he was 185lbs? hahaha

The people that cover the combine literally publicly mock those measurements as being inaccurate. Friedman and marek were just making fun of those stats a couple weeks ago.

Believe what you want

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You also believe he was 185lbs? hahaha

The people that cover the combine literally publicly mock those measurements as being inaccurate. Friedman and marek were just making fun of those stats a couple weeks ago.

Believe what you want

A simple "I was wrong" would suffice.

Hell you don't even have to write it out if it hurts that much, just copy and paste the above.

 

[effen]

I can appreciate that Lion Hound has no sacred cows and is willing to consider every possible option.

Even if his value sense is a tad off.