Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[huerter]

And what is the reason that in 3 years that he has not once been used as a regular on the PK? You would think that should be his ideal role. He doesn't get limited PK time when everyone is healthy. He gets near zero PK time. He has had under 10 seconds 22 times. He can very easily be a regular there instead of Fox, and then you get Fox an extra 5v5 shift after the PK, but he is not.

cause Fox is one of the best in the world?

 

[n8]

what do the advanced stats on Zac Jones say in his March stretch of games played?

 

[Fitzy]

cause Fox is one of the best in the world?

Best in the world is better used at ES than on the PK.

The functional difference between Fox and a pedestrian defenseman on the kill is much, much smaller than the difference between them at even strength.

Killing penalties as a defenseman is one of the simplest roles in hockey, and one where the old school defensemen who can't move the puck to save their lives aren't as heavily disadvantaged.

Unless someone is in the box, I'd almost never use Fox on the PK.

 

[17futurecap]

what do the advanced stats on Zac Jones say in his March stretch of games played?

That’s the 12 games he has played since coming back into the lineup.

 

[kovazub94]

Wennberg has been pretty medicore to me. Not sure i would want to give him a 4 year deal or any deal at all. Would love to see what other options are available if Chytil doesn't return.

There’s no “upside” with Wennberg. He’s pretty acceptable 3C option when you have what the Rangers have in front of him and at this point no team would overpay for this upside so his price tag might be very reasonable. I mean I don’t think anyone would complain if Goodrow is moved and to have Wennberg be signed for cost just about the same price to be in the same role.

Roslovic on the other hand has been underwhelming to stay in top-6.

 

[huerter]

Best in the world is better used at ES than on the PK.

The functional difference between Fox and a pedestrian defenseman on the kill is much, much smaller than the difference between them at even strength.

Killing penalties as a defenseman is one of the simplest roles in hockey, and one where the old school defensemen who can't move the puck to save their lives aren't as heavily disadvantaged.

Unless someone is in the box, I'd almost never use Fox on the PK.

Tell that to your old self when Schneider looked like a lost bird against pitt on the 5 on 3.

 

[kovazub94]

Not really. I think he is extremely poor positionally and makes a lot of really bad decisions with the puck. Looks like a typical 3rd pairing defenseman to me who gets overvalued because he is physical and was a former first round pick.

I'm not sure the organization sees him that much differently either. Look how they handled their other recent young defenseman. Miller was in the top four right away playing 21+ mins a game. By the second half of Fox's second season he was playing 20+ mins every game and then 24 mins since. Meanwhile, in 3 years Schneider has never managed to break off the third pair, never hit 16 mins/game, and never even got regular PK time.

Haha, his minutes and use have obviously not been impacted by having said Fox and Trouba in front of him. Interesting how with Trouba out all of a sudden his minutes went +4 on average give or take.

 

[mas0764]

It's surprising, to me, the amount of negativity around a team that's going to end up having the best three year regular season stretch in a nearly one hundred year history.

The East is wide open - if they play the right way they certainly have an outstanding chance at getting to the Final.

A lot of the negativity stems from abandoning the rebuild and ppl not feeling like the team has enough talent to win a Cup.

 

[mas0764]

Talking Farabee and Lundell is speaking my language, just substitute tacos and pizza.

The thing is, I'm not keen on giving up on Kakko. There is a part of me who sees a kid that just doesn't have "It". Then there is the part of me that isn't ready to give up on him. He's a likeable kid, works hard, and plays an honest 3 zone game. It's just unfortunate that he's too old, embedded, and it doesn't look good to send him to "The A" to be selfish on the top line and learn to be an Alpha scorer. Which I honestly think he NEEDS. Or, needed, but two years ago.

I ask myself, is the Fin system inadequate at producing Elite talent outside Rantenen amd Barkov so many years ago? That's not a facetious question. Their lack of success at all levels international is a hot button discussion.

So...

Farabee has been a favorite of mine since his WJC days. Although I'm not sure I see the same player as I did in those tournaments. And frankly, I'm a Torts guy. His game that made him desirable pre-draft seemed taylor made for a coach like Tortarella. Its a red flag that they don't see eye to eye. And if it's not his game then it's his attitude, which I find this generation to be lacking in intestinal fortitude.

Anton Lundell: Again, a very interesting kid. Fills a need and seems to be progressing into the expectations scouts were projecting going into his draft. He's got Barky and Bennett ahead of him. I'm not certain FLA is eager to move him with Bennett only one year before UFA.

I think alot of players futures on Broadway are riding on this specific playoff run. Pragmatically, The Core and The Kids, and even Drury, are all on the hot seat depending on how the next few month(s) play out.

Movement clauses are weakening, kids are nearing do, don't, or promote decisions. I don't think it benefits this team to be wishy-washy when it comes to direction. Unless we win the cup this season, someone at the top (not Dolan) needs to.make tough choices and chose a path. Kids or Vets. Develop the next Core, or year after year supplement this Core, extend them, and juggle the cap going forward by trading away draftees like Chicago did with Shaw, Panarin, etc...

This. Target guys like Farabee and Lundell but not giving up Kakko. You have a first round pick, Trouba, and futures to spend.

 

[mas0764]

Does drury have the balls to move Trouba this offseason? Cant be paying a guy $8mm to be on our 3rd pair. Hes only owed $12mm total over the final 2 years but money is far better spent paying a 3Rd pair RHD like a ruhwedel league minimum to play with jones until the 2025 TDL where we can then bolster it with a move like dallas made getting tanev this year.

This basically has to happen. Trouba is awful and his money can be spent way better.

Wennberg has been pretty medicore to me. Not sure i would want to give him a 4 year deal or any deal at all. Would love to see what other options are available if Chytil doesn't return.

Yeah I don’t get it with him at all. He’s not terrible. That’s what you can say about him.

One issue with trading Trouba is that they would need to sign a top four RD anyway since Schneider is bad.

We need a top 4 D now because Trouba is terrible. We would have $8m more to do so. Whats the downside here?

 

[SA16]

Haha, his minutes and use have obviously not been impacted by having said Fox and Trouba in front of him. Interesting how with Trouba out all of a sudden his minutes went +4 on average give or take.

Yes players get promoted when players ahead of them in the lineup get injured. Do you want to explain to me why a supposed big, physical, defensive player has not managed to take a regular PK shift in 3 years?

I haven't seen anything from his play that shows he deserves to be promoted. He's really bad positionally and is constantly chasing the wrong man or on the wrong side of the ice. He makes some good plays in front of the net when he's in the right spot. He had that nice block that they showed a replay on yesterday.

 

[jay from jersey]

Does drury have the balls to move Trouba this offseason? Cant be paying a guy $8mm to be on our 3rd pair. Hes only owed $12mm total over the final 2 years but money is far better spent paying a 3Rd pair RHD like a ruhwedel league minimum to play with jones until the 2025 TDL where we can then bolster it with a move like dallas made getting tanev this year.

This is absolutely on the menu for the offseason…..
Either way, whether they keep him for 1 more season after this, or move him at the end of the year I don’t think he finishes his current contract with NYR.
If they feel Schneider is ready, I’d move him this offseason…..
It would be nice if jones can play RD….
Lindgren/new guy- Fox
Miller - schneider
Lindgren/new guy-jones

It’s not a bad top 6 D, and it’s not a complete overhaul either.

Gus will be paid more than he’s worth almost certainly….

And I don’t think you see a president trophy competing team overhaul 50% of their D in 1 offseason.
Not very realistic.

 

[noncents]

what's the most any of you would pay lindgren?

 

[duhmetreE]

what's the most any of you would pay lindgren?

3.5M per

assuming Trouba is moved

 

[Fitzy]

what's the most any of you would pay lindgren?

Pretty much exactly what we are now over the course of 3 more years.

 

[jay from jersey]

Not really. I think he is extremely poor positionally and makes a lot of really bad decisions with the puck. Looks like a typical 3rd pairing defenseman to me who gets overvalued because he is physical and was a former first round pick.

I'm not sure the organization sees him that much differently either. Look how they handled their other recent young defenseman. Miller was in the top four right away playing 21+ mins a game. By the second half of Fox's second season he was playing 20+ mins every game and then 24 mins since. Meanwhile, in 3 years Schneider has never managed to break off the third pair, never hit 16 mins/game, and never even got regular PK time.

I’m not sure what you’re watching…. He is not inflatable and makes mistakes, but to call him bad is inaccurate. He’s much better than last season in almost every facet of his game…..
Young defenders go through peaks and valleys.
Miller is in year for and still has spurts where he makes you want to pull you’re hair out….
I don’t know if your think every young defender coming in is going to play like Fox, but I’ll end the suspense. Fox is the exemption not the rule…..

People were all over Skjei when we dealt him, now he’s going to cash in as a 30yr old as a well rounded top 4 D. ……
I’m not sure what you expect from these kids or what you expect to replace them with????
Young guys that have no growing pains???
All UFA vets??
This team should be ecstatic they have Fox/Miller/Schneider
Other teams would love to take them off our hands ……

 

[SA16]

I’m not sure what you’re watching…. He is not inflatable and makes mistakes, but to call him bad is inaccurate. He’s much better than last season in almost every facet of his game…..
Young defenders go through peaks and valleys.
Miller is in year for and still has spurts where he makes you want to pull you’re hair out….
I don’t know if your think every young defender coming in is going to play like Fox, but I’ll end the suspense. Fox is the exemption not the rule…..

People were all over Skjei when we dealt him, now he’s going to cash in as a 30yr old as a well rounded top 4 D. ……
I’m not sure what you expect from these kids or what you expect to replace them with????
Young guys that have no growing pains???
All UFA vets??
This team should be ecstatic they have Fox/Miller/Schneider
Other teams would love to take them off our hands ……

Never said that we should look to replace him. I said I don't think he is capable of playing in the top four right now and that the organization doesn't seem to trust him that much either considering he isn't even given PK time when everyone is healthy. I just saw him moved into that role for almost a month with Trouba out thought it did not go well.

I wouldn't compare him to Miller. Miller is a much better skater, much better with the puck, and has much more range when using his stick.

I also sincerely hope that he is not inflatable as if he was I think he'd have some bigger issues.

 

[kovazub94]

Yes players get promoted when players ahead of them in the lineup get injured. Do you want to explain to me why a supposed big, physical, defensive player has not managed to take a regular PK shift in 3 years?

I haven't seen anything from his play that shows he deserves to be promoted. He's really bad positionally and is constantly chasing the wrong man or on the wrong side of the ice. He makes some good plays in front of the net when he's in the right spot. He had that nice block that they showed a replay on yesterday.

I’m really not sure what you’re asking / expecting - that a rookie from a get go will take minutes away from unquestionable top-5 D in the whole league or even someone of Trouba’s pedigree? He clearly took a big step forward in his development this season and maybe at least partially it has to do with finally having a somewhat decent partner (clearly different situation from Miller who haven’t had anyone in front of him in top-4 or Nemeth or Harpur etc as his regular partners to start career).

 

[noncents]

yeah we give lafreniere leeway when he started his career stapled to goodrows and the like, but no grace for schneider who has had to develop with harpur nemeth and short bursts of braun and mikkola

 

[kovazub94]

what's the most any of you would pay lindgren?

Under $5 AAV for 4 years. Won’t go on a rant if it’s slightly over given where the cap is heading.

 

[jay from jersey]

Under $5 AAV for 4 years. Won’t go on a rant if it’s slightly over given where the cap is heading.

This is exactly what I think.
5 mill - years is pretty much market value for him
If 5 years, cap hit goes to 4.5-4.75….
Also very tradeable 2-3 years down the road if need be….

I have no prob signing him to a deal like this. Lindgren 30-31 years old, I don’t want to sign a deal to

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Did we burn a bridge Barb Underhill?

IIRC she is working for Tampa Bay - maybe exclusively?

 

[haohmaru]

A lot of the negativity stems from abandoning the rebuild and ppl not feeling like the team has enough talent to win a Cup.

1st overall in the league kinda slaps that bitch in the face. I mean, they’re right there in the conversation and not a hypothetical spit ball.

yeah we give lafreniere leeway when he started his career stapled to goodrows and the like, but no grace for schneider who has had to develop with harpur nemeth and short bursts of braun and mikkola

Schneider is 22 years old. Anyone looking to jettison him needs to leave their credentials at the door.

 

[TominNC]

A lot of the negativity stems from abandoning the rebuild and ppl not feeling like the team has enough talent to win a Cup.

Which is a ridiculous take. Let's be Buffalo and hope in 10 years we can have the best record in the league. Because that's exact what we'd have if the "trade everyone" crowd had their way.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

i suspect the conversation around Lindgren is going to devolve into hell pretty quickly this summer. If he signs for next to nothing than whatever I guess but I’d trade him 99 times out of 100

You can spout the intangible stuff to me all you want, and I concede there is something there. But at the end of the day, I don’t trust him to hold up health wise, and he’s perpetually stapled to Fox when he is not a top pairing defenseman