Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part X — Active Roster in OP (09/28)

[Avery16]

Seems that way, he was the only ranger with under 10 minutes TOI last night, and he served the too many men bench minor. Hopefully he can turn it around, otherwise at least from an asset management standpoint that would be a bummer

Especially because not enough time in regulation to serve the penalty and come out of the box for a set play

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Miller should have been dealt separately for picks. Look at the haul that Detroit received for Tatar.

Without Miller we don't get that return. This is how I see the pieces in that trade


McDonagh 60%
Miller 40%

Howden 20%
Hajek 30%
First round pick 20%
Namestnikov 20%
2nd round pick 10%

 

[FIRE DRURY]

That Mcd trade is looking worse and worse.

Ridiculously foolish post.

 

[kovazub94]

The Rangers have two lines that on any given night would be able to hold its own against pretty much any team in the NHL. The other lines will be up and down most of the time.

Vesey looked like a player we thought we were getting when the Rangers signed him. Keep it up!

Namestnikov and Spooner must be better, if only for the same of Chytil and Howden.

 

[Avery16]

Howden 20%
Hajek 30%
First round pick 20%
Namestnikov 20%
2nd round pick 10%

Agree with the post, but obv I want to tinker with the specifics:

Howden 20%
Hajek 30%
First round pick 20%
Namestnikov 15%
Conditional 2nd round pick 15%

 

[Edge]

That Mcd trade is looking worse and worse.

Based on what?

McD still looks like a player in decline, even as he is now playing on Tampa's second defensive unit.

Miller will rack up his share of points in the regular season while nestled into a similar role that made Namestnikov look like an NHL scoring threat. He will most likely once again take a back seat in the playoffs.

Howden is already skating with the Rangers, Hajek isn't far behind.

Namestnikov is still out in the woods somewhere and it remains to be seen what direction he goes.

Lundkvist is a couple of weeks into his D-1 season.

We'll see whether the other pick is a first or a second. If it's a second, that might also be connected to whether McD and Miller are having the desired impact TB was hoping for.

 

[Avery16]

Based on what?

McD still looks like a player in decline, even as he is now playing on Tampa's second defensive unit.

Miller will rack up his share of points in the regular season while nestled into a similar role that made Namestnikov look like an NHL scoring threat. He will most likely once again take a back seat in the playoffs.

Howden is already skating with the Rangers, Hajek isn't far behind.

Namestnikov is still out in the woods somewhere and it remains to be seen what direction he goes.

Lundkvist is a couple of weeks into his D-1 season.

We'll see whether the other pick is a first or a second. If it's a second, that might also be connected to whether McD and Miller are having the desired impact TB was hoping for.

If the conditional pick is a first, Names is the smallest piece of the trade. Can’t evaluate a trade on the smallest piece.

 

[Edge]

If the conditional pick is a first, Names is the smallest piece of the trade. Can’t evaluate a trade on the smallest piece.

And here's the thing, Namestnikov might very well be a bust for us.

The reality is that we will have busts during this process. It's not even a question.

Obviously, the hope is that we win far more than we lose, and as many young players develop and hit close to their potential as possible. But there's no way we're coming out the other side of this endeavor with a perfect record. It's just not going to happen.

So if Namestnikov becomes a bust, but Howden, Hajek becomes core players, and at least one of the picks we acquired develops into a solid NHL player, that's a win.

 

[Tawnos]

And here's the thing, Namestnikov might very well be a bust for us.

The reality is that we will have busts during this process. It's not even a question.

Obviously, the hope is that we win far more than we lose, and as many young players develop and hit close to their potential as possible. But there's no way we're coming out the other side of this endeavor with a perfect record. It's just not going to happen.

So if Namestnikov becomes a bust, but Howden, Hajek becomes core players, and at least one of the picks we acquired develops into a solid NHL player, that's a win.

Agreed. I mean, in comparison, Brian Leetch as a rental got us absolutely nothing. That's just the nature of doing this.

 

[Krams]

That Mcd trade is looking worse and worse.

McDonagh's best years are behind him at this point. He'll be 30 by the end of the season and is now locked up through 2026 with a full NTC. In return we got two promising, young, NHL-ready assets, added Lundkvist with the 1st, and have another 2nd/1st round pick to come. I'm not hyped about the Miller/Namestnikov side of things, but it's still overall a significant return for a depreciating asset with an expiring contract. It's a move that had to be made if we were to be serious about this rebuild. McDonagh's value was only going to decrease heading into this season, and we would have either had to settle for less at the deadline, handcuff ourselves with another long term contract to a 30yo defenseman, or have lost him to free agency.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Namestinkov might become the Jeff Carter-lite trade acquisition. He mopes his way through part of a season, traded for less then what you spent, and he ends up rebounding. At least we did it on a smaller scale and he wasn't the main piece.

Maybe a team out there views him for what he is: a capable sidekick to a star studded duo. Come TDL, maybe Edmonton, Pitt or Washington is sending a 2nd our way.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Namestinkov might become the Jeff Carter-lite trade acquisition. He mopes his way through part of a season, traded for less then what you spent, and he ends up rebounding. At least we did it on a smaller scale and he wasn't the main piece.

Maybe a team out there views him for what he is: a capable sidekick to a star studded duo. Come TDL, maybe Edmonton, Pitt or Washington is sending a 2nd our way.

I'd sign for this.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Without Miller we don't get that return. This is how I see the pieces in that trade


McDonagh 60%
Miller 40%

Howden 20%
Hajek 30%
First round pick 20%
Namestnikov 20%
2nd round pick 10%

You are probably right, but it just shows. They gave up nothing of value to them, got the two best assets in the deal, and we got a bunch of quantity for our best player and another of our best players.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Are people against seeing how Namestnikov does in 3 periods alongside Kreider and Buch? I'm just trying to figure how we can maximize him

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Are people against seeing how Namestnikov does in 3 periods alongside Kreider and Buch? I'm just trying to figure how we can maximize him

Not with those two. Don't get rid of our best line.

Put him with Hayes and Zuccarello, if we insist on maximizing his value. I don't think he has much value, whether we put him on our best line or not. He's not that good. He's like a 9th forward. Probably doesn't have much value around the league.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

You are probably right, but it just shows. They gave up nothing of value to them, got the two best assets in the deal, and we got a bunch of quantity for our best player and another of our best players.

Welcome to the world of trading star players

 

[Webster]

Not with those two. Don't get rid of our best line.

Put him with Hayes and Zuccarello, if we insist on maximizing his value. I don't think he has much value, whether we put him on our best line or not. He's not that good. He's like a 9th forward. Probably doesn't have much value around the league.

If KZB is our best line they still have to prove it. That line could be dismantled quickly if they don't show more than they did last night.

 

[Trxjw]

Names has always been a step too slow for top-six duty unless he's propped up by better players. Unfortunately, Pro scouting hasn't been a strength of this organization for some time so it's not surprising they ended up with a guy like that.

He's a sunk cost at this point. Either he plays well enough to get traded or they let him walk after his contract expires.

 

[Edge]

Welcome to the world of trading star players

Bingo.

And in this case, it’s really debatable as to whether McD was still a star caliber player.

Under the best of circumstances trading a top-end player is usually a lesson in taking quantity over one-for-one quality.

It’s no different than when posters on here talk about us packaging multiple assets to acquire a piece like Rick Nash, or Mark Messier, or whoever.

In McD’s case I think there was the memory of what he was four short years ago. But McD is not that player anymore, and despite him being only 28 at the time of the trade, there were a lot of hard miles on that chasis.

 

[haohmaru]

Bingo.

And in this case, it’s really debatable as to whether McD was still a star caliber player.

Under the best of circumstances trading a top-end player is usually a lesson in taking quantity over one-for-one quality.

It’s no different than when posters on here talk about us packaging multiple assets to acquire a piece like Rick Nash, or Mark Messier, or whoever.

In McD’s case I think there was the memory of what he was four short years ago. But McD is not that player anymore, and despite him being only 28 at the time of the trade, there were a lot of hard miles on that chasis.

He's a shadow of what he was 3-4 years ago. The right trade at the right time.

 

[Edge]

He's a shadow of what he was 3-4 years ago. The right trade at the right time.

And I think that’s a hard swallow for a number of reasons.

1. Fond memories

2. At 28, he shouldn’t be a few years into a noticeable decline

3. In 2014, we envisioned him being “the guy” for another decade or so

4. We don’t have that heir apparent waiting in the wings

5. We want that trade that changes the landscape of the franchise — not unlike how McD was acquired in the first place.

 

[Mikos87]

Seems that way, he was the only ranger with under 10 minutes TOI last night, and he served the too many men bench minor. Hopefully he can turn it around, otherwise at least from an asset management standpoint that would be a bummer

Not a fan of the 2nd year on the contract, but it's not a damning contract for a rebuilding team.

If they hit on Nils and 19 pick, it's worth it.

 

[Fvital92]

 

[Ola]

Names has always been a step too slow for top-six duty unless he's propped up by better players. Unfortunately, Pro scouting hasn't been a strength of this organization for some time so it's not surprising they ended up with a guy like that.

He's a sunk cost at this point. Either he plays well enough to get traded or they let him walk after his contract expires.

Agreed.

A few things:
*Criticizing the trade isn’t the same thing as trashing the parts we got back.

From my POV, I wonder if Gorton wouldn’t have received more had he been more patient with that trade. Like what would Miller have returned if dealt last summer? What would McD have returned? I think we would be pretty pretty excited about that return too.

*A good scout is able to get into the head of a coach and get him the player he wants. If we take Etem and Names for example, I think they really were not liked by AV and Quinn. I don’t like that fact — as well as the phenomen in it self, that we trade for guys that really isn’t what any coach would like — at all.

*The best defense of the Trade — IMO — is Vitaly Kravtsov.

 

[Ori]

Maybe Gorton started the rebuild 2 years too early in consider Henrik going nowhere, and Staal is still playing NHL hockey with a contract you can`t do anything with NMC. Kevin Shattenkirk it will take time to get him match fit and his first game in MSG was merely a shadow of himself and it was very noticeable in the last game in MSG. But I agree with you @Ola I think they should try to move Kevin S. contract as well since they have DeAngelo who is 22 with a similar abilities on PP and good offensive defender.
If we had Ryan Mc + JT who was a top 6 forward in NY - things would look much differently. I`m fine moving Nash based on his injury history last year and I`m not sure if Nash even playing hockey this season?