Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VIII: Dilly Dilly - Lets Tank!

[BobMarleyNYR]

I don't think this team is bad enough to tank, just has a lot of question marks... can Kreider be at his best all the time under Quinn? Do you really think Zibanejad's ascent is just gonna even out (typical for NYR)? Buchnevich WON'T grow (he will)? Hayes? Vesey? How good can Fil and Lil be? Spooner and Namestnikov? How will Hank hold up?

I guess it's always question-marks but it figures more likely they get pick 8-12 than top-3. This team is not in tank mode and might not get there this year if ever. Not for or against. Our forward group and Hank in particular will make us near a .500 team.

 

[NYR Viper]

The Rangers need at least 2 more good drafts. Their key young guys are so young and they need so many more players. Their young guys will need time to develop and mature. They need to find their own franchise player. All of these Cup winners had that player(s). They can’t build another team where the goalie is the best player on the team. They played a million playoff games and never won. Diving into the free agent market is the last thing this organization needs. The Rangers are a good three years from being a legit team. Their young players will determine how long the rebuilding process will take and not how many free agents they sign.

RB I agree with what you’re saying but, say, in 2-3 years there may not be the right UFA available to compliment the core. Sometimes you have to go get the right guy in UFA even if it’s a year early. I’m not saying that’s specifically Panarin or Karlsson, just that it’s not as black and white as just, 3 years from now, find that final piece.

 

[Tawnos]

RB I agree with what you’re saying but, say, in 2-3 years there may not be the right UFA available to compliment the core. Sometimes you have to go get the right guy in UFA even if it’s a year early. I’m not saying that’s specifically Panarin or Karlsson, just that it’s not as black and white as just, 3 years from now, find that final piece.

I think teams are better off anticipating being good rather than waiting to be good.

 

[eco's bones]

If Panarin does become a Ranger any line he plays on is automatically the first line. He's at a place that Kreider has never reached and I would lay odds that Buchnevich will never reach either. Panarin is a legit 1st line player. I wouldn't say that about any current Rangers forward. I would say that Chytil has a decent shot at becoming a legit 1st line forward and maybe Buchnevich and Zibanejad outside shots.

 

[slugox]

RB I agree with what you’re saying but, say, in 2-3 years there may not be the right UFA available to compliment the core. Sometimes you have to go get the right guy in UFA even if it’s a year early. I’m not saying that’s specifically Panarin or Karlsson, just that it’s not as black and white as just, 3 years from now, find that final piece.

It's ALWAYS the right time to add superstar talent, especially so when the only cost to the team is money. If it doesn't work out, you have some excellent chips to deal to try and make it right. If it does, well, that's the whole point.

 

[SA16]

Yea but if the Rangers sign Panarin then how can they hope to be the worst team in the league and have an 18% shot at getting the first overall pick?

 

[TheTakedown]

The Rangers need at least 2 more good drafts. Their key young guys are so young and they need so many more players. Their young guys will need time to develop and mature. They need to find their own franchise player. All of these Cup winners had that player(s). They can’t build another team where the goalie is the best player on the team. They played a million playoff games and never won. Diving into the free agent market is the last thing this organization needs. The Rangers are a good three years from being a legit team. Their young players will determine how long the rebuilding process will take and not how many free agents they sign.

You said this last year. Now we need another "good draft"?

You're turning into Bernmeister. Why don't we just sell the entire team and relocate the franchise to Quebec City while we're at it...

 

[Leetch3]

You said this last year. Now we need another "good draft"?

You're turning into Bernmeister. Why don't we just sell the entire team and relocate the franchise to Quebec City while we're at it...

I think he's actually look for another GREAT draft...a good draft is something you should aim for every year forever when not in a rebuild. to me a good draft is coming away with 2 players that keep the pipelines flowing. we are looking for much more right now

 

[silverfish]

Yea but if the Rangers sign Panarin then how can they hope to be the worst team in the league and have an 18% shot at getting the first overall pick?

 

[kovazub94]

If Panarin does become a Ranger any line he plays on is automatically the first line. He's at a place that Kreider has never reached and I would lay odds that Buchnevich will never reach either. Panarin is a legit 1st line player. I wouldn't say that about any current Rangers forward. I would say that Chytil has a decent shot at becoming a legit 1st line forward and maybe Buchnevich and Zibanejad outside shots.

While I agree with you that Panarin would automatically become the Rangers best player, there is a room below his level that is reasonably attainable by each one of KZB and it would make them a legitimate first line players.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

The moment we sign Panarin the tank is officially over. Make a splash at next year's draft and let's get going from the 19-20 season onwards.

18-19 tank
19-20 transition
20-21 hopefully a stacked dangerous team

 

[B17 Apricots]

I noticed people wanting to draft another high end center prospect, absolutely nothing wrong with that. But going back and re-watching Gordie Clark's interview about the first round picks this summer made me interested particularly by what he said about Kravstov. In case anyone forgot about it or didn't see it he said that he plays a lot like a center and grew up playing it, that most kids don't get to play center in the KHL and mentioned Kuznetzov and his eventual switch from wing to center. Even though he said they drafted him as a winger I really would not surprised if they plan on going down that route at some point.

 

[I Eat Crow]

I noticed people wanting to draft another high end center prospect, absolutely nothing wrong with that. But going back and re-watching Gordie Clark's interview about the first round picks this summer made me interested particularly by what he said about Kravstov. In case anyone forgot about it or didn't see it he said that he plays a lot like a center and grew up playing it, that most kids don't get to play center in the KHL and mentioned Kuznetzov and his eventual switch from wing to center. Even though he said they drafted him as a winger I really would not surprised if they plan on going down that route at some point.

I wouldn't be surprised either. From what I've seen, Kravtsov certainly plays and sees the game like a center.

I know some here have likened Chytil to Malkin. Kravstov is way more like Malkin, IMO. He does everything at top speed and just bears down on defenses when he has the puck. Guy has a release like Gaborik's too. He's going to be deadly if he keeps developing his play off the puck.

 

[Fvital92]

The moment we sign Panarin the tank is officially over. Make a splash at next year's draft and let's get going from the 19-20 season onwards.

18-19 tank
19-20 transition
20-21 hopefully a stacked dangerous team

I think that is Gorton's plan.
No reason for us to suck beyond this year, if Chytil, Andersson and Kravtsov show up in a good way in the transition year. We will probably have 3 first rounders in the next draft, and one of those will be a really high pick.

 

[Ola]

The Rangers need at least 2 more good drafts. Their key young guys are so young and they need so many more players. Their young guys will need time to develop and mature. They need to find their own franchise player. All of these Cup winners had that player(s). They can’t build another team where the goalie is the best player on the team. They played a million playoff games and never won. Diving into the free agent market is the last thing this organization needs. The Rangers are a good three years from being a legit team. Their young players will determine how long the rebuilding process will take and not how many free agents they sign.

I am not sure how the timing adds up for that prediction if we are building a team through the drafts??

We need:
1LW-1C-1RW
2LW-2C-2RW
3LW-3C-3RW
4LW-4C-4RW
1LD-1RD
2LD-2RD
3LD-3RD

After three years Kreider will be over 30. I wouldn’t count on an over 30 PF being a big factor. Zucc is of course more or less done. Maybe a smaller role. Hayes is gone this spring. I would be surprised if Names or Spooner are here after three more years. Miller would have been 28 but Gorts trades him.

Can we slot in one vet name upfront —
1. Zibanejad? 29-30 y/o.

The other 11 have to be Buch, Vesey, Lias, Chytil, Howden, Kravtsov and co. Meskanen and the likes.

In terms of age it will be:
2. Vesey 26 y/o
3. Buch 25 y/o
4. Howden 24 y/o
5. Lias 23 y/o
6. Chytil 22 y/o
7. Kravtsov
8. 2020 picks 20 y/o
9. 2021 picks 19 y/o

Conclusion forwards: I am an optimistic guy but things have to play out — tremendously — well if that group will core a 4 line deep P.O. contender. If we after three more years, going into the 2021/22 season — we have to be really fortunate if we have one forward from the 20-21 drafts on the roster. It’s very far from a guarantee that all guys listed 1-7 actually makes it and/or is still in NY. Let’s be honest here, it’s only 1 of all those guys who actually have delivered somewhat so far in the NHL. Buch and Vesey finished the year as 4th lineers... There is a transaction risk here.

But sure, I can also see the framework for a good top 6-9 among those names. Let’s be positive and say that two of guys like Meskanen and the likes also make it — that roster would ‘only’ have 4-5 major holes on it.

And don’t expect to get much help from any free agent market at that time. Prices will be insane and all top guys are locked up long term. Close to 40 guys like Cory Perry and Ryan Getzlaf will be available, but players a notch above that will be rare...

————————
On the backend, Skjei is of course as much of a lock as a player can be in this context. Realistically he is 2LD. None of the other vets will be here after 3 more years of rebuilding.

Counting on a realistic but optimistic bust rate we should have something like:
1. Skjei
2. TDA/Pionk
3. Hajak/Miller
4. Keane/Lundqvist/Lindgren/Lundkvist (remember these kids are still ‘young’ in after three more years. Skjei was 23 last season. These guys will average what like 21-22 at this time).

Picks made in the coming drafts is of course too young to help.

Who will lead the blueline?

Who will we have in the net?

I just don’t get it to add up.

 

[Irishguy42]

Dan Rosen interviewed Kevin Hayes: Hayes committed long term to Rangers

Seems like Gorton wants to keep Hayes long term, at least for the time being, and Hayes sounds like he wants to be here long term.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I've said it before but it bears repeating. Get the 1st overall pick in this draft and you lop a year off the rebuild. He's that good. You do that and then yeah it starts to make sense to go after a Panarin. Maybe if you get 2 more picks you flip one of them in a package for a young established player.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Dan Rosen interviewed Kevin Hayes: Hayes committed long term to Rangers

Seems like Gorton wants to keep Hayes long term, at least for the time being, and Hayes sounds like he wants to be here long term.

Looks like they'll take a run at him one more time. If they can get him under a favorable contract that makes sense then they'll do it. If not, then they have the flexibility to trade him at the deadline.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Hayes has long-term plans with Rangers despite one-year contact

The 26-year-old forward, who has 174 points (73 goals, 101 assists) in 310 games with New York, said he spoke to Rangers general manager Jeff Gorton two hours after he signed on July 30 and was reassured that the team has no intention of trading him this season...

"In a perfect world, Kevin Hayes is here after one more year and we keep going with him. Everything goes the way he wants it to and we do," Gorton said. "We certainly have (the salary cap) room to keep him and move forward, it's just a matter of the contract. As we went through the process, the one-year deal seemed to be the best fit for what we're doing right now. I think Kevin was comfortable saying, 'OK, I'll come back this year and I'll do exactly what I say I'm going to do, and then let's talk.' We're comfortable with that too."

I dunno. This makes sense on the surface, but if they couldn’t come to an agreement this summer, I have little faith they’ll come to one next summer when he’s a year older, will want more money, and the salary cap will go up

Will be interested to see if they actually hold up to what they told Hayes about not trading him.

I don’t buy it for a second.

 

[DanielBrassard]

It makes sense to go after Panarin regardless of if they get Hughes or not. The team will not have any issues with cap space for the next few years, he's an elite forward, which if you are going to sign a FA, is what you go after and he's a RH shot which is another plus.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yeah Hughes AND Panarin is a grand slam 2019 offseason.

You get your controllable franchise talent and another elite talent. That would be a win win for pretty much everyone other than those who want to spend the next 10 years rebuilding or those who want to be good enough to get slaughtered in round 1 right now.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Hayes has long-term plans with Rangers despite one-year contact



I dunno. This makes sense on the surface, but if they couldn’t come to an agreement this summer, I have little faith they’ll come to one next summer when he’s a year older, will want more money, and the salary cap will go up

Will be interested to see if they actually hold up to what they told Hayes about not trading him.

I don’t buy it for a second.

I tend to agree. Doesn't make much sense, when you could have signed him for less, could have signed him for 1 fewer year. I'm hopeful they do sign him though.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Yeah Hughes AND Panarin is a grand slam 2019 offseason.

You get your controllable franchise talent and another elite talent. That would be a win win for pretty much everyone other than those who want to spend the next 10 years rebuilding or those who want to be good enough to get slaughtered in round 1 right now.

It's not everyday a player of his caliber is a FA, and if you look at the FA lists for the 3-4 years after, there aren't many other potential FA who are as good as Panarin is, and will be as young as he will be at the time he is a Free Agent. If you wait 3 years or more like RangerBoy wants to, you may never even have a chance at getting someone like Panarin when the team is "ready" to contend. Same goes for Karlsson.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Hayes has long-term plans with Rangers despite one-year contact



I dunno. This makes sense on the surface, but if they couldn’t come to an agreement this summer, I have little faith they’ll come to one next summer when he’s a year older, will want more money, and the salary cap will go up

Will be interested to see if they actually hold up to what they told Hayes about not trading him.

I don’t buy it for a second.

Neither do I.

I mean he can ball out and force their hand but I think that he's still the 2nd most likely to be gone by the TDL, if not the most likely.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Hayes has long-term plans with Rangers despite one-year contact



I dunno. This makes sense on the surface, but if they couldn’t come to an agreement this summer, I have little faith they’ll come to one next summer when he’s a year older, will want more money, and the salary cap will go up

Will be interested to see if they actually hold up to what they told Hayes about not trading him.

I don’t buy it for a second.

"In a perfect world"

I see what you did there, Gorts.