Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VIII: Dilly Dilly - Lets Tank!

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When I get 2 full pages where it is just people responding to a post that I can't see because the poster(s) is/are on ignore...

Also, why did the button "show ignored posts" get taken away? Seems like a reduction in quality of the site
 
When I get 2 full pages where it is just people responding to a post that I can't see because the poster(s) is/are on ignore...

Also, why did the button "show ignored posts" get taken away? Seems like a reduction in quality of the site

I love how all the new features that were implemented after the rehome are one by one removed and now we are in the exact same situation as 2 years ago, but with a different domain. Absolutely brilliant
 
What do Namestnikov and Shumakov have to do with each other?

Etem wasn't the main part of the trade. It was Gropp who unless he figures it out and gets involved this season will end up busting.

If Shattenkirk stinks it will only be two years left. Rangers have a bunch of guys on ELCs who will be affordable for a few years. They also need to have guys to protect in Expansion slots. They'll have the minimum. Right now it's Zibanejad, Buch, Shattenkirk, Skjei, Smith, Staal, Lundqvist, Georgiev. Gorton will be feasting as teams will be begging him to take on contracts for assets and prospects come the Seattle expansion and at that point they may be at least a Wild Card team.

I still don't get the Panarin obsession here. Seguin is a RH shot #1 center and has done it for more years more consistently than Bread Man. He's the one to sign. All these people saying he's going to resign in Dallas, I'v asked on this board and said share those links. They don't exist. He's an incredibly competitive alpha who wants to be the #1 guy. They did a whole thing about that in his draft. Dallas hasn't really improved and Bishop was exposed as an average goalie out of TBL. You can bet your bottom dollar if Dallas doesn't make some noise in the playoffs he's out of there.
The reason you hear more about Panarin, I think, is because he supposedly has a lot of interest in signing with the Rangers. My opinion is that it might be a year or so early in the rebuild to make a big UFA signing but if you could get one of them it would be worth doing.
 
Thought I'd turn the convo back to our own system.

One thing I'm very excited about is the overall depth of our system. We can sufficiently ice full rosters at each of the NHL and AHL levels, not even counting Hartford's players/signings in Butler, Melanson, Salvaggio, and I believe DeSalvo, Kotyk, and Helgeson, most of whom may be loaned or go on ECHL duty. Not that I expect everyone to immediately stick, and I imagine some players will be out on loan.

This year's Hartford teams looks far better than what they have had in recent years. Growing pains will be had, for sure, but there's a strong infusion of legitimate prospects. I feel good about this rebuild starting off on the right foot, and (in my opinion), there are plenty of Hartford players who could play a stretch in the NHL and not look out of place, some of whom may be over-marinating at this point.

I'm all for letting them grow as a team in the A and bringing them up here and there as we move guys out near the deadline/over the next summer. If they prove to be ready sooner, it's a great problem to have.
 
What do Namestnikov and Shumakov have to do with each other?

Etem wasn't the main part of the trade. It was Gropp who unless he figures it out and gets involved this season will end up busting.

If Shattenkirk stinks it will only be two years left. Rangers have a bunch of guys on ELCs who will be affordable for a few years. They also need to have guys to protect in Expansion slots. They'll have the minimum. Right now it's Zibanejad, Buch, Shattenkirk, Skjei, Smith, Staal, Lundqvist, Georgiev. Gorton will be feasting as teams will be begging him to take on contracts for assets and prospects come the Seattle expansion and at that point they may be at least a Wild Card team.

I still don't get the Panarin obsession here. Seguin is a RH shot #1 center and has done it for more years more consistently than Bread Man. He's the one to sign. All these people saying he's going to resign in Dallas, I'v asked on this board and said share those links. They don't exist. He's an incredibly competitive alpha who wants to be the #1 guy. They did a whole thing about that in his draft. Dallas hasn't really improved and Bishop was exposed as an average goalie out of TBL. You can bet your bottom dollar if Dallas doesn't make some noise in the playoffs he's out of there.

The Athletic's Dallas Stars beat writer Sean Shapiro was on Dmitri Filopovic's podcast 3-4 weeks ago. If Seguin doesn't sign in Dallas,one of the main reasons is the team has made the playoffs once in the last 4 years. Seguin would want to sign with a team which can compete for a Cup. The Rangers are very far away from being a Cup contender. Seguin isn't signing with a rebuilding team. Another reason is money. Benn is at $9.5M. Dallas might not want to offer more than $9.5M which is worth more with no state income tax. Buyout proof signing bonus laden contract.

The problem with Shattenkirk stinking is that Smith and Staal also stink. That's a combined $16.7M of stink tied up for the next three seasons. Half of the Rangers defense corps. We all know Staal has been in serious decline a while. Smith just isn't very good. You would expect/hope Shattenkirk to give them a few quality seasons. Both Smith and Shattenkirk turn 30 early next season. The aging curve is not very kind to players approaching 30 and the roof caves in after 30. The Rangers better hope Shattenkirk's dip last season was because of the knee injury which is more serious than the Rangers admitted. The guy had knee surgery in January. He tried to come back in March for some stupid reason. He left pain and discomfort so they shut him down. Larry Brooks reported Shattenkirk resumed skating in late June. Five months after the surgery. The Rangers said he would be back within two months.
 
Good news is the Rangers arent going to be competing for at least the next 2 seasons so if they need to make a UFA splash or lock up a few high performing young players that will be $17MM coming off the cap in 3 years or a not too bad buyout in 2 years.

Cap space isnt an issue for the Rangers, which is a weird thing to say.
 
Could buyout Staal and replace him with a league minimum player or a rookie, saving 2M.
No offense, but I am so tired of people jettisoning Staal like he isn't ANY good whatsoever. Its already been stated how Marc has helped Pionk, so if not for any other reason.....he will also help with the ADA's and whomever else makes the club out of camp.
He usually is positionally sound which is something Hank has been appreciating for years. You have to have some form of stability back there, and not a case of the blind leading the blind.
 
Tampa didn't want to dump him. The guy was having a great season there.
I dont think tampa wanted to "dump him" but believe it was stated (from TB side) that they wanted to be more gritty and that is what JT brought to them. I dunno, thought this was a dead issue.
 
We shouldn't have bought out Girardi last summer, should have kept him and not sign Smith, then either buy him out this summer or try trading him at the end of this season.
A classic case of Monday morning QB on not signing Smith! Are you saying you weren't impressed with his PO performance? I know I was, and apparently our GM was as well. As of now Smith has taken us to the cleaners. Now he has some paying back to do.
 
A classic case of Monday morning QB on not signing Smith! Are you saying you weren't impressed with his PO performance? I know I was, and apparently our GM was as well. As of now Smith has taken us to the cleaners. Now he has some paying back to do.

Nothing against Smith, but if we kept Girardi maybe we wouldn't have space for Smith, remember we also signed Shatt.
 
Good news is the Rangers arent going to be competing for at least the next 2 seasons so if they need to make a UFA splash or lock up a few high performing young players that will be $17MM coming off the cap in 3 years or a not too bad buyout in 2 years.

Cap space isnt an issue for the Rangers, which is a weird thing to say.

several very generous contracts, several bad contracts and Cap space can become an issue very fast. If you look at our roster right now, I would say it is more than competitive. Especially if some rookies perform well.
 
Fontaine 50-50 to make the team out of camp. 90% to make it at some point on our 4th line. Rangers could potentially have the best 4th lines in hockey very soon.

Nieves-Fontaine-Gettinger

Size, speed, some offensive skill.
 
The Athletic's Dallas Stars beat writer Sean Shapiro was on Dmitri Filopovic's podcast 3-4 weeks ago. If Seguin doesn't sign in Dallas,one of the main reasons is the team has made the playoffs once in the last 4 years. Seguin would want to sign with a team which can compete for a Cup. The Rangers are very far away from being a Cup contender. Seguin isn't signing with a rebuilding team. Another reason is money. Benn is at $9.5M. Dallas might not want to offer more than $9.5M which is worth more with no state income tax. Buyout proof signing bonus laden contract.

The problem with Shattenkirk stinking is that Smith and Staal also stink. That's a combined $16.7M of stink tied up for the next three seasons. Half of the Rangers defense corps. We all know Staal has been in serious decline a while. Smith just isn't very good. You would expect/hope Shattenkirk to give them a few quality seasons. Both Smith and Shattenkirk turn 30 early next season. The aging curve is not very kind to players approaching 30 and the roof caves in after 30. The Rangers better hope Shattenkirk's dip last season was because of the knee injury which is more serious than the Rangers admitted. The guy had knee surgery in January. He tried to come back in March for some stupid reason. He left pain and discomfort so they shut him down. Larry Brooks reported Shattenkirk resumed skating in late June. Five months after the surgery. The Rangers said he would be back within two months.

Very very good post but I'm going to bring up some points to WHY I think the Rangers are a desirable destination. We don't know how close or far away they are yet. This season will determine that. They're in the position as well where if they really stink and can grab one of Hughes, Kakko, Turcotte, Newhook, that would be very appealing for anyone to play with (along with Chytil/Kravstov). If they go all 2010-11 on us which is VERY possible, they're a bubble team who could spin the "hey we're getting there" angle to UFAs.

Seguin is going to ask for A LOT of money. Like $12-$13 million. Teams like the Bruins, Lightning, Leafs, Caps, Penguins, Kings, Wild, Blues don't have the room up front or the money. Ducks are pretty good up front but they need a lot of work on D (I can see them going hard after Karlsson). Even the Panthers won't have the cap room. Who will have that kind of money? Vegas, Jets, Sharks, Rangers, Devils, Islanders at this time are the only logical destination for UFAs. Of those teams I see the Sharks and the three NY region teams being desirable destinations. Jets don't spend money on UFAs which is going to have to change or else they're going to be this decades version of late 90s Senators. But would the Devils really spend that kind of cash and who knows what the Islanders are this year and the whole arena situation (when will it be built in actuality etc.).

Seguin is a total alpha. As I said there was a whole thing about it during his draft year. He wants to be THE man. He already has a Cup as a complimentary piece, but he wants one as a main guy. The Rangers can pay him and sell him on being the main part of the rebuild. He signs for seven years he'll get at least five if not six cracks at it. Maybe even seven. Him being here moves all the other centers who will be on ELCs down the depth chart and creates more favorable matchups. Howden if he pans out can do his Holik/Joel Otto thing the next decade. Anderson can be moved anywhere and everywhere. Maybe he even gets to platy a Hadfield-lite with Seguin.

I don't think Smith is as bad a he was last year. He made a bad decision last offseason. AV also neutered him. That was spoken about. If Shattenkirk really is finished, they can always IR him for the next few years. Rangers literally don't have any contracts to worry about for the next 2-3 years. If an RFA buch coming off an ELC (no arb) and resigning Fast is the most you have to worry about, you're in the drivers seat. They can pay Seguin, make him the main part of the rebuild, AND have enough dough to keep surrounding him and a team of ELCs with whichever veterans are needed.
 
Fontaine 50-50 to make the team out of camp. 90% to make it at some point on our 4th line. Rangers could potentially have the best 4th lines in hockey very soon.

Nieves-Fontaine-Gettinger

Size, speed, some offensive skill.

Gettinger is very intriguing. Can he keep up with the pro game. I know he's not fast because he's a big dude, but can he develop into a modern grinder?
 
Not expecting him to blow things up, but curious to see what Bobby butler does this season in Hartford.
 
I hope so, we desperately need more size and grit.

Someone brought up Dwight King as a player comparable to Gettinger. Their stats are pretty similar. King is no longer an NHLer because he's of the mold of late 2000s/early 2010s grinders that were all physicality and can't keep up with the speed. It is encouraging his stats have improved every year. The thing about him is to have modest expectations. If he starts in the ECHL or is only putting up average or third line AHL numbers, it's important not to jump on him and label him bust because he might be contributing in other areas. This isn't like Gropp who if he's not scoring, isn't doing much else.
 
Fontaine 50-50 to make the team out of camp. 90% to make it at some point on our 4th line. Rangers could potentially have the best 4th lines in hockey very soon.

Nieves-Fontaine-Gettinger

Size, speed, some offensive skill.

1000-1 that we ever see this line in the NHL this year. Maybe.
 
The Athletic's Dallas Stars beat writer Sean Shapiro was on Dmitri Filopovic's podcast 3-4 weeks ago. If Seguin doesn't sign in Dallas,one of the main reasons is the team has made the playoffs once in the last 4 years. Seguin would want to sign with a team which can compete for a Cup. The Rangers are very far away from being a Cup contender. Seguin isn't signing with a rebuilding team. Another reason is money. Benn is at $9.5M. Dallas might not want to offer more than $9.5M which is worth more with no state income tax. Buyout proof signing bonus laden contract.

The problem with Shattenkirk stinking is that Smith and Staal also stink. That's a combined $16.7M of stink tied up for the next three seasons. Half of the Rangers defense corps. We all know Staal has been in serious decline a while. Smith just isn't very good. You would expect/hope Shattenkirk to give them a few quality seasons. Both Smith and Shattenkirk turn 30 early next season. The aging curve is not very kind to players approaching 30 and the roof caves in after 30. The Rangers better hope Shattenkirk's dip last season was because of the knee injury which is more serious than the Rangers admitted. The guy had knee surgery in January. He tried to come back in March for some stupid reason. He left pain and discomfort so they shut him down. Larry Brooks reported Shattenkirk resumed skating in late June. Five months after the surgery. The Rangers said he would be back within two months.

Couldn’t agree more.

The Shatty situation scares me. If we didn’t have Staal and Smith and Girardi’s buyout — it wouldn’t scare me one bit. But it’s not good to have close to 20 million — twenty million !!!! — tied up to worthless defenders for THREE full seasons. 19/20, 20/21 and 21/22. [edit minus 1 ;)]

And — YES, there is no guarantee that Shatty will SUCK. He could actually help us for a season or two more. Or even three. But given the horrible commitments we have on the blueline — Staal, Smith and Girardi — we just should not RISK anothe one.

It goes so darn fast. Ds are exposed the most of worthless teams. Shatty have had injuries. He was very sought after on the UFA market just 15 months ago. He signed a team friendly contract. But — it can change over night. Another injury. A bad role on an overmatched team. Right or wrong, he can become untradable even with 50% retention over night. NOBODY is keen to take a vet with any kind of dent in the armor of another team.

Gorton should definitely jump on any opportunity to unload Shatty this season.
 
Like let’s say we are lucky with our rebuild. We win the lottery, could easily be 1/5.

Three years down the road could easily the best window we EVER would get to win a Cup while Jack Hughes is still on his ELC. ‘That year’ of DD/Toews/Kane contracts both LAK and Chicago won their Cup if I remember correctly. Next year in Toronto’s cycle. Could be the best year.

If Shatty goes down hill he alone could destroy that entire window. 20m tied up on worthless Ds if he declines in 20/21. Can’t risk that.
 
I hope so, we desperately need more size and grit.

Oh.... You're one of those.

2MyOTjI.jpg
 
Like let’s say we are lucky with our rebuild. We win the lottery, could easily be 1/5.

Three years down the road could easily the best window we EVER would get to win a Cup while Jack Hughes is still on his ELC. ‘That year’ of DD/Toews/Kane contracts both LAK and Chicago won their Cup if I remember correctly. Next year in Toronto’s cycle. Could be the best year.

If Shatty goes down hill he alone could destroy that entire window. 20m tied up on worthless Ds if he declines in 20/21. Can’t risk that.

In that scenario, Shatty's contract will be done before Jack Hughes would be off of his ELC.

#Facts

Edit: Doughty was on his 2nd contract when the Kings won their 2nd cup. Kopitar too.
 
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Buyout of Staal or Smith after this year wouldn’t kill us if we needed that to fit Panarin in, or even if we just wanted to open the spot for the younger defensemen. The cap situation is clean as a whistle after the Staal, Smith, Shattenkirk and Lundqvist contracts expire.

Three years is a long time but I think our chances of becoming a serious business contender in that time are very low, about the same as eking into the playoffs this year.
 
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