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Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VIII: Dilly Dilly - Lets Tank!

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haohmaru said:
In The Hockey News Yearbook, they rank the Rangers depth chart of defenseman as follows:
  1. Kevin Shattenkirk
  2. Brady Skjei
  3. Neal Pionk
  4. Marc Staal
  5. Tony DeAngelo
  6. Freddy Claesson
  7. Brendan Smith
  8. John Gilmour
  9. Ryan Lindgren
  10. Libor Hajek
Well.... that's interesting. Pionk ahead of Staal. ADA ahead of both Claesson & Smith. Kampfer nowhere to be found.
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Thank the dear lord. I am tired of him. Matt Hunwick was the last good "spare" defenseman that we had
 
Oscar Lindberg said:
Say it louder for the people in the back
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One would think that between Montoya, Lafleur and Halverson, we might have learned to not pick goaltenders so high...

It is what it is though. If you're going to make the "I know something everyone else doesn't know" type of pick, it better work out. Far too early to judge that.

I don't mind if they draft a goaltender every year, just do it in the 4th or later.
 
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Gardner McKay said:
One would think that between Montoya, Lafleur and Halverson, we might have learned to not pick goaltenders so high...

It is what it is though. If you're going to make the "I know something everyone else doesn't know" type of pick, it better work out. Far too early to judge that.

I don't mind if they draft a goaltender every year, just do it in the 4th or later.
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We always look at how many goaltending prospects fail, but this is an important thing to remember: 55% of starting goalies last season, including the ones that were starters because the real starter was injured (like Forsberg) were drafted in rounds 1-3. That number gets higher if you only include the ones that would be the top of the team's healthy depth chart.

In the Rangers specific situation, it didn't make a whole lot of sense... but overall, this shouldn't be a hard and fast rule.
 
Regarding player movement-

Expect a flurry of moves around training camp and preseason.

May be small in nature, but it's a good window for teams to shore up their rosters if things dont pan out the way they intended.

EG: Rangers could easily get a pick to help EDM on the back end.

Eat salary from the blues? Get a decent 4th liner out of it with a pick.

Give DAL an NHL body- get futures.

You can backfill off of waivers.
 
SA16 said:
Just draft a goalie in the 6th or 7th every year and call it a day.
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There were only 5 starters drafted that low last year and nearly as many (4) who weren't drafted at all. (plus one who was drafted in the 7th, didn't sign a contract, went back into the draft and went in the 3rd)
 
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Tawnos said:
I really don't get this. Raanta, Talbot, Bobrovsky, and Jones is enough evidence for you to say drafting goalies is worthless?
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Goalies have no trade value, you can get capable starters relatively cheap if you ever need to. Further, anyone who says they can accurately predict what goalie will be good when they're 18 is full of shit. I'd wait longer, find some guys who have more data, have seen more games, and target undrafted FAs.

[redacted, as I see you mentioned this earlier in a post I didn't read]
 
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Tawnos said:
We always look at how many goaltending prospects fail, but this is an important thing to remember: 55% of starting goalies last season, including the ones that were starters because the real starter was injured (like Forsberg) were drafted in rounds 1-3. That number gets higher if you only include the ones that would be the top of the team's healthy depth chart.

In the Rangers specific situation, it didn't make a whole lot of sense... but overall, this shouldn't be a hard and fast rule.
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I think I looked at this a while back, but don't most of these guys fall into either first or third round picks? I don't remember seeing many starting goalies being selected in the second round. The only three I can think of off the top of my head are Gibson, Lehner, and Markstrom. Then from more recent drafts, I remembered there being some promising prospects like Carter Hart and Alex Nadeljkovic, but I don't remember more than that.
 
silverfish said:
Goalies have no trade value, you can get capable starters relatively cheap if you ever need to. Further, anyone who says they can accurately predict what goalie will be good when they're 18 is full of ****. I'd wait longer, find some guys who have more data, have seen more games, and target undrafted FAs.
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Ah yeah, ok. I can see where you're coming from (although I would apply your statement about accurate predictions to nearly all skaters too). But you got me curious. To your point, only 13/30 starters who were drafted at all were playing last season for the team that originally drafted them.
 
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Mac n Gs said:
I think I looked at this a while back, but don't most of these guys fall into either first or third round picks? I don't remember seeing many starting goalies being selected in the second round. The only three I can think of off the top of my head are Gibson, Lehner, and Markstrom. Then from more recent drafts, I remembered there being some promising prospects like Carter Hart and Alex Nadeljkovic, but I don't remember more than that.
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That's essentially as many as were 3rd round picks, but given that goalies don't really get taken in the first round anymore... a lot of those former 1st round picks would be 2nd and 3rd rounders in today's drafting strategies.

Jake Allen was a 2nd rounder. Jimmy Howard too. Quick, Murray, Anderson, Andersen are your 3rd rounders
 
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Two notes:

1). Shumakov is Russian, therefore, he couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag. With scissors in his hands.

2). Hate the Lindbom pick. But I love Allaire. He clearly pushed for this pick, so I don't hate it as much.
 
Brodeur leaves Blues’ FO this morning. Then this:



I swear to god, I won’t be a fan if Marty is joining this org.
 
silverfish said:
TBH, I'd never draft a goalie but that's just me
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Meh difference between a 6th/7th round pick and an unsigned draft pick is basically negligible. I’d probably just draft European goalies that way you can retain their rights without signing quickly
 
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Leetch3 said:
pretty sure andersson's can't slide again because of his age
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Andersson's contract can slide because he signed when he was 18:

If a player who is signed to an entry-level contract and is 18 or 19 years of age (as of September 15 of the signing year), does not play in a minimum of 10 NHL games (including both regular season and playoffs; AHL games do not count), their contract is considered to ‘slide’, or extend, by one year. For example, if a player signed an ELC for three seasons from 2015-16 to 2017-2018, and their contract slides, their contract is now effective from 2016-17 to 2018-19. An exception to this rule is that if the player is 19 on September 15 of the first year of their contract, and turns 20 between September 16 and December 31, their contract does not slide.

Players who sign at 18 years old are eligible to have their contracted extended for 2 seasons. This extension does not apply if the player turns 20 between September 16 and December 31 in his signing year. Signing bonuses do not slide, and are paid to the player regardless of a slide, this causes the annual average of the players contract to change, and therefore the cap hit decreases for this player.
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NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Yeah. But it doesn't really matter in Andersson's case because if 2019-20 is his 1st accrued season, he will hit his UFA years at age 27, which would happen either way at that age.
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It could matter for the expansion draft. Hopefully it won’t matter if it’s in 2020, but if it’s in 2021, Andersson will have to be protected no matter what happens this year.
 
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