Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

[bhamill]

I never said I'd trade him for a rental, just want to clarify that before people jump down my throat about it.

Yeah, I hear you. Depends on the specific trade, I think the only difference between where you stand and I stand is that you are a bit more "proactive" about moving Kakko.

 

[McRanger92]

Yeah, I hear you. Depends on the specific trade, I think the only difference between where you stand and I stand is that you are a bit more "proactive" about moving Kakko.

Thats a fair criticism. My concern is that we are relying on Kakko & Chytil to come back and save our 5v5 play. Im fairly confident in Chytil but Kakko does a lot of stuff that makes his charts look good, but nobody shoots the puck willingly when hes on the ice. That doesnt translate in the playoffs.

My hot take (probably more lukewarm) is that Othmann is going to come up and look better than Kakko immediately. Kinda like Cuylle did. They play a style more suited for the games we want to be playing in.

 

[bhamill]

Thats a fair criticism. My concern is that we are relying on Kakko & Chytil to come back and save our 5v5 play. Im fairly confident in Chytil but Kakko does a lot of stuff that makes his charts look good, but nobody shoots the puck willingly when hes on the ice. That doesnt translate in the playoffs.

My hot take (probably more lukewarm) is that Othmann is going to come up and look better than Kakko immediately. Kinda like Cuylle did. They play a style more suited for the games we want to be playing in.

I can see Othmann coming up and looking good. I'm hoping he gets a few games in soon, and then maybe contributes a bit in the playoffs.

 

[hardnosed]

Get a center anyway and then when Chytil comes back, there's your depth.

Depth isn't having mediocre players playing above their station. Depth is having good players playing below their station.

If for some reason, Chytil is out for the season, Drury needs to shoot for a better player than if Fil is just a big question mark. Plus, in the first scenario, Drury would have more cap to work with. So, he needs to know what the story is with him.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm still focused on LD both now and long term. I think there is enough depth up front to make things work, specifically when Chytil and Kakko come back. Edstrom, Othmann, Sykora, Berard. I like the forward depth coming in the pipeline. I don't like the defensive depth nor do I see a reinforcement coming. If I'm making a swing for it all move, I'm looking squarely at Hanifan and then locking him up to a Toews-esque long term deal. Boston did it last year with Lindholm. Finding a tall, rangy 26 year top-4, borderline top-2 d-man is hard to do. They play 24-28 minutes a night in the playoffs. Lock in the Rangers top-4 for the foreseeable future.

 

[McRanger92]

I'm still focused on LD both now and long term. I think there is enough depth up front to make things work, specifically when Chytil and Kakko come back. Edstrom, Othmann, Sykora, Berard. I like the forward depth coming in the pipeline. I don't like the defensive depth nor do I see a reinforcement coming. If I'm making a swing for it all move, I'm looking squarely at Hanifan and then locking him up to a Toews-esque long term deal. Boston did it last year with Lindholm. Finding a tall, rangy 26 year top-4, borderline top-2 d-man is hard to do. They play 24-28 minutes a night in the playoffs. Lock in the Rangers top-4 for the foreseeable future.

The Lindgren for Hanifin idea thats been put out there makes a ton of sense to me. I remain skeptical the organization pulls the trigger on something like that mid-season, but I think it would be a smart move if they did.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

So glad all you guys can outcoach Lav. I don't know what I would do without this forum...

This mentality is the bane of my hockey fan existence. Why even come here for discussion if you genuinely believe that coaches/management, who have a million things on their plate, are immune to poor philosophy/decision making/talent evaluation. Being critical of something the coach does doesn’t mean you think you’re “smarter” than them or have more overall hockey knowledge.

 

[Daves a mess]

Just listening to NHL Radio and was advised that the Rangers are 26th in the league at 5v5.



Woof.

 

[TominNC]

Not me. Especially not for some 3rd liner who walks in the offseason.

If we are talking about an early 20's player who has potential that hasn't quite lived up to it yet, then I might listen.

So trade Kakko for himself?

Just listening to NHL Radio and was advised that the Rangers are 26th in the league at 5v5.



Woof.

I don't think that's the stat that the standings go by fortunately.

 

[Machinehead]

Just listening to NHL Radio and was advised that the Rangers are 26th in the league at 5v5.



Woof.

At what, specifically?

 

[Daves a mess]

So trade Kakko for himself?


I don't think that's the stat that the standings go by fortunately.

There's the regular season, and then there's the playoffs.

Me personally, Im not banking on an almost 30% PP in the playoffs and crunch time leading up to it. What Drury can do with almost no space will be interesting

I'm looking to address 5v5 at the deadline, as did the program I was listening to.

 

[Avery16]

The Lindgren for Hanifin idea thats been put out there makes a ton of sense to me. I remain skeptical the organization pulls the trigger on something like that mid-season, but I think it would be a smart move if they did.

put out there where, and by who? By posters on HF? The Rangers aren't in on Hanifin.

 

[Savant]

Not me. Especially not for some 3rd liner who walks in the offseason.

If we are talking about an early 20's player who has potential that hasn't quite lived up to it yet, then I might listen.

In a weird way, I kind of think Ottawa is a good match for this. If Rangers acknowledge their puck moving weaknesses, do they roll the dice on a guy like Brannstrom? Can they get Shane Pinto out of there? That's along the lines of where I would be looking.

 

[McRanger92]

put out there where, and by who? By posters on HF? The Rangers aren't in on Hanifin.

Yeah its been speculated by posters here. And how do you know they arent interested? They have a long-term need on the left side of the defense, why wouldnt they be?

 

[Machinehead]

The Rangers are a weird team. I still don't know what to make of them yet.

We get outscored at even strength. I'm not gonna lie to you - that's not good.

But also our shooting weirdly sucks this year. Our shooting is the one thing that's been good consistently over the last several years. This year it blows. We're finishing at a <8% rate. Also, our goaltending isn't that good.

I'm expecting some correction there, but I'm not sure how much correction. Our shot metrics say we should be much better. Our quality metrics say we are where we deserve to be.

We also tend to win close and get our doors blown off when we get outplayed, but we probably win close more often than we get our doors blown off. I don't know what to make of that either. The conventional analytic wisdom tells me to just take what the sample says, but hockey is played one game at a time. I don't think we've been bad in more games than we've been good, I just think we're really, really, really f***ing bad when we're bad.

I haven't gotten a good read yet on how good the team actually is.

I definitely have a read on where the weaknesses are. We bleed chances against like somebody turned on a faucet. Those who are calling for an upgrade to the defense are absolutely correct.

It's become stylish to bag on Lindgren, and fair enough, he's annoying, but the biggest problem is the second pair. They play a lot of minutes and have more responsibility under Laviolette than they did under Gallant, and both Miller and Trouba are below-replacement-level players this season.

 

[kovazub94]

There's a big difference between the two.

Kreider has a great hockey IQ. He knows exactly where to go and he knows exactly how to use his strengths, which in terms of handling the puck, are far more limited than Kakko's strengths.

Kakko doesn't have the hockey IQ. That's what's holding him back. He has no concept of how to translate his skills -physical or puck-based- into creating offense at this level. It's not likely he ever learns it.

As far as big wingers who run around bullying people, who are they? Tom Wilson? Maybe Brady Tkachuk? Although he's mostly shoving after the whistle and he's also not that good. There's like one in the whole league.

It’s ironically funny. Until a few years ago Kreider’s calling card from a majority of fans was low ,or at best, average hockey IQ. The point is that it’s a skill that can or can be developed.

 

[McRanger92]

The Rangers are a weird team. I still don't know what to make of them yet.

We get outscored at even strength. I'm not gonna lie to you - that's not good.

But also our shooting weirdly sucks this year. Our shooting is the one thing that's been good consistently over the last several years. This year it blows. We're finishing at a <8% rate. Also, our goaltending isn't that good.

I'm expecting some correction there, but I'm not sure how much correction. Our shot metrics say we should be much better. Our quality metrics say we are where we deserve to be.

We also tend to win close and get our doors blown off when we get outplayed, but we probably win close more often than we get our doors blown off. I don't know what to make of that either. The conventional analytic wisdom tells me to just take what the sample says, but hockey is played one game at a time. I don't think we've been bad in more games than we've been good, I just think we're really, really, really f***ing bad when we're bad.

I haven't gotten a good read yet on how good the team actually is.

I definitely have a read on where the weaknesses are. We bleed chances against like somebody turned on a faucet. Those who are calling for an upgrade to the defense are absolutely correct.

It's become stylish to bag on Lindgren, and fair enough, he's annoying, but the biggest problem is the second pair. They play a lot of minutes and have more responsibility under Laviolette than they did under Gallant, and both Miller and Trouba are below-replacement-level players this season.

The answer is as simple as Miller/Fox & Lindgren/Trouba

 

[Machinehead]

It’s funny. Until a few years ago Kreider’s calling card from a majority of fans was low ,or at best, average hockey IQ. The point is that it’s a skill that can or can be developed.

A majority of fans have a low, or at best, average hockey IQ.

 

[Machinehead]

The answer is as simple as Miller/Fox & Lindgren/Trouba

It could be that simple. I complained a lot last year about how I wasn't sure if it would help, but Gallant was using the worst possible combination of 12 forwards he had at his disposal. Sure enough, different lines have been good for our chance production. Wheeler has been a hit on the line he's on now. Lafreniere on the right side (and sticking with it!) has been helpful. Good players with Panarin has helped Panarin, f***ing shocker.

Maybe the same thing happens to the defense if we just stop using bad pairs.

I'm a little more forgiving on the D pairs because both of the top four pairs we use have been good at this level, but I think that milk has gone sour.

 

[kovazub94]

A majority of fans have a low, or at best, average hockey IQ.

Why can’t rhetoric change down the line on Kakko too?I honestly don’t remember ANYONE putting high IQ on the list of Kreider’s tools earlier in his career and as it was noted Kakko is of about age when Kreider was just making his first steps in the NHL

 

[McRanger92]

It could be that simple. I complained a lot last year about how I wasn't sure if it would help, but Gallant was using the worst possible combination of 12 forwards he had at his disposal. Sure enough, different lines have been good for our chance production. Wheeler has been a hit on the line he's on now. Lafreniere on the right side (and sticking with it!) has been helpful. Good players with Panarin has helped Panarin, f***ing shocker.

Maybe the same thing happens to the defense if we just stop using bad pairs.

I'm a little more forgiving on the D pairs because both of the top four pairs we use have been good at this level, but I think that milk has gone sour.

I really think its that simple. The narrative that Fox is having a down year is very overblown. Is it possible hes not 100% from that shitbag hit by Aho, yes. But the idea that he has dragged Lindgren down of all people is hilarious. In all likelihood Lindgren is playing injured too because its all he does. If you want to cover for Fox's mobility at even strength, you put him with the guy who covers the most ground, which is Miller. And if you want Trouba to step up in the neutral zone and cause turnovers with big hits and pinches, you put him with a guy who is going to stay home, which is Lindgren. Gus and Schneider is a solid 3rd pair.

 

[effen]

It’s ironically funny. Until a few years ago Kreider’s calling card from a majority of fans was low ,or at best, average hockey IQ. The point is that it’s a skill that can or can be developed.

They don't know what hockey IQ is because they puck watch and don't understand relative positioning as things move. He's very, very rarely out of position and practically never uses speed to fix a positional mistake.

 

[Machinehead]

Why can’t rhetoric change down the line on Kakko too?I honestly don’t remember ANYONE putting high IQ on the list of Kreider’s tools earlier in his career and as it was noted Kakko is of about age when Kreider was just making his first steps in the NHL

Because it's pretty apparent that Kakko is a moron.

Kreider got the "dumb" label because people expected him to walk in and be Lindros. "All that talent and he's not a star? Must be dum." If they stopped to look for a second, they would have realized that Kreider wasn't a standout producer at any level. He never had that much raw skill.

Kakko, on the other hand, has the skill. He has plenty of opportunities to create offense. Just about every time, he skates right into coverage. He can't carry the puck and read his surroundings at the same time.

When Kreider is parked in front, he knows where the puck is and when it's coming. Kakko doesn't know where up is.

It's not a difference in narrative, it's a difference in ability.

 

[Machinehead]

I really think its that simple. The narrative that Fox is having a down year is very overblown. Is it possible hes not 100% from that shitbag hit by Aho, yes. But the idea that he has dragged Lindgren down of all people is hilarious. In all likelihood Lindgren is playing injured too because its all he does. If you want to cover for Fox's mobility at even strength, you put him with the guy who covers the most ground, which is Miller. And if you want Trouba to step up in the neutral zone and cause turnovers with big hits and pinches, you put him with a guy who is going to stay home, which is Lindgren. Gus and Schneider is a solid 3rd pair.

Fox had like a down 10 games. His underlying numbers have been shooting up.

 

[McRanger92]

They don't know what hockey IQ is because they puck watch and don't understand relative positioning as things move. He's very, very rarely out of position and practically never uses speed to fix a positional mistake.

On a related note, 3 bozos on the Athletic put together their US World Cup teams for 2025 and none of them had Kreider. And I'm expected to defer to the experts in hockey media? No thanks.