Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

[duhmetreE]

The one thing that I think is worth pointing out is that the team, in general, has gotten way too loose defensively.

Their 5v5 offense has been better this month (not great, but better) but its come at the expense of their defense. This free wheeling WEEEEEE hockey is not the way forward.

I realize that some of this is heavily influenced by the injuries and some games just end up taking on a theme that neither team really wants (Boston for instance, where they just basically traded chances the entire game) but they've gone from basically forcing teams to play the way they want to play to letting the other team dictate how the game is going to be played. They've won despite that and honestly have had pretty decent metrics while doing it but I still don't like those trends.

There’s fine tuning that needs to happen. When we get caught up ice/have breakdowns, there needs to be better communication/understanding on what is needed/important in those chaotic situations..

It usually snowballs and leads to a goal against. Still technically early in a new system. Hopefully each one serves as a learning experience.

 

[SA16]

The guy I Keep coming back to is Barrett Hayton. Both he Kakko have had up and down starts to their NHL careers. Hayton is a center which would be a nice addition to a team needing help down the middle possibly. They are about half a year apart in age. Both are strong possession players via their 5v5 CF% and FF% stats. I'm not sure if it would be 1 for 1 or which side would need to add a sweetener but I could see it.

Why is Arizona trading their first line center when after him and Cooley they have nothing?

Why are the Rangers, whose weakness is RW, trading a RW for a center when they already have 3 good ones all under contract long term?

 

[duhmetreE]

Fox full participant at practice today. Looks poised to return within the next week.

HFDocs take their 8900923982392309230th consecutive L.

Chytil also skated on his own.

I missed Foxy... soon

 

[Anthony5967]

There's certainly correlation there and it stands to reason that production improved because they replaced a career 0.39 PPG player with a career 0.81 PPG player.

It's always like, mental gymnastics with Kakko. Linemates this, and shooting luck that.

250+ NHL games are telling us he's just not very good at scoring.

Tage Thompson scored 18 goals in 145 games. I know he's kind of an anomaly but I disagree with you completely. Kakko was the one guy last year that looked dominant with the puck in the offensive zone. He scored 18 goals as a third-liner with no PP time. Struggling so far, but I don't suddenly see him as a 15-point player. People are being ridiculous. Get Chytil between Cuylle and Kakko.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There’s fine tuning that needs to happen. When we get caught up ice/have breakdowns, there needs to be better communication/understanding on what is needed/important in those chaotic situations..

It usually snowballs and leads to a goal against. Still technically early in a new system. Hopefully each one serves as a learning experience.

The systems thing isnt an excuse because these things were not happening as often a month ago.

Some of it is self inflicted as high OZ turnovers and bad pinches are just poor on ice reads (and there have been way more of them over the last 4-5 games than there were the previous 15) but this is eerily similar to what happened last year where the team was pretty good defensively, they got a bit lax and then became neither good defensively or offensively. It's not an overhwelming cause for concern yet but it's a pretty yellow flag trending towards orange.

 

[SA16]

You're supposed to play free wheeling hockey when you have a top goalie. Not doing so just defeats the purpose of having that goalie in the first place.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You're supposed to play free wheeling hockey when you have a top goalie. Not doing so just defeats the purpose of having that goalie in the first place.

I can no longer tell if you're serious.

 

[bernmeister]

He started the year on the first line!!

Again, I think the whole sell low/high thing is overstated. You can sell high after a huge year. You would be selling low after a huge disappointment. Kakko is having a normal ass year. He's solid defensively and he'll probably get somewhere between 30 and 40 points in bunches.

The only people overreacting to his production are the people insisting that his value has tanked compared to where it was because of a 19-game stretch. I doubt he's viewed any differently around the league than he was. Some teams won't be interested and some teams will think they can turn him around. The latter probably still think that.

bold = maybe quality but not automatic chemistry
if you had that and no proof w/kid line reality, then ok, you have a pt

trust me
Cuylle + healthy Chytil WILL WORK

 

[aufheben]

Why is Arizona trading their first line center when after him and Cooley they have nothing?

Why are the Rangers, whose weakness is RW, trading a RW for a center when they already have 3 good ones all under contract long term?

I am also more concerned about RW than C. Actually I’m not really concerned about any position except RW.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I really wish they bought out Goodrow over the summer.

They didn't need the space obviously but more so because I think his presence is really going to f*** things up once everyone is healthy.

 

[DanielBrassard]

You're supposed to play free wheeling hockey when you have a top goalie. Not doing so just defeats the purpose of having that goalie in the first place.

I don't know that the Rangers have intentionally opened things up, but yeah I think if you are going to have an elite goalie it makes sense. But I don't think you can glean anything from these small samples. Sometimes it's just the flow of the game that causes the team to open up. Plus it's far more entertaining.

 

[Machinehead]

bold = maybe quality but not automatic chemistry
if you had that and no proof w/kid line reality, then ok, you have a pt

trust me
Cuylle + healthy Chytil WILL WORK

The Kid Line sucks at scoring

 

[NYR Viper]

I am also more concerned about RW than C. Actually I’m not really concerned about any position except RW.

In my head, I would slide Chytil to RW and play Hayton at center. Othmann and Lafreniere are long-term RWers and I think Berard could play RW as well. I'm not overly concerned long term there

 

[Machinehead]

The Flyers and the Penguins both generated <2 xGF at even strength. For reference, 2.14 xGA/60 is the best mark in the NHL, currently. The Penguins lead the league in xGF/60 and the Flyers are 9th. We just shut down two good offensive teams.

It was really only the Dallas and Boston games that opened up and both of those teams are legit contenders.

Boston laid down the gauntlet early that it was gonna be up and down and we went out and outchanced them. That was actually badass. So it's just Dallas on the road that was a bad game.

I'm not concerned yet. I think being shorthanded a lot in the Pittsburgh and Philly games is skewing the perception.

 

[duhmetreE]

The systems thing isnt an excuse because these things were not happening as often a month ago.

Some of it is self inflicted as high OZ turnovers and bad pinches are just poor on ice reads (and there have been way more of them over the last 4-5 games than there were the previous 15) but this is eerily similar to what happened last year where the team was pretty good defensively, they got a bit lax and then became neither good defensively or offensively. It's not an overhwelming cause for concern yet but it's a pretty yellow flag trending towards orange.

Yeah, the getting cute at the blue line has been an issue, especially when we're up by a couple goals. It's unacceptable and it does creep in.

I'd rather die by being overly aggressive, having the defenseman act as a 4th forward than conceding the neutral zone/zone entry.

Just looking at the most recent Lindgren pinch that led to a Boston goal, we had numbers back but coverage was a mess. People need to prioritize and think outside the parameters of a normal situation. We had 4 guys back vs 3 attackers... Yet Coyle was unchecked in front of the net. That's the type of fine tuning I'm talking about in the chaos. I do not care as much for Lindgren getting caught in a pinch but how we reacted after the fact.

2nd Coyle goal was a miscommunication. Jones tried to go up the boards ( did a great Kravtsov impersonation and was easily muscled off the puck ) Schenider was expecting to get the puck wheeled back to him. Once again, after that breakdown, coverage was shoddy. Passing lanes weren't taken away and players weren't tied up.

When we're getting 'beat' or allowing goals, it's usually self inflicted and 'correctable'.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, it needs to be stressed that we weren't that bad last year. If this is a 50-50 analytics team, they have enough talent to contend.

The problem last year is that we were locked into a first round matchup with a team that morphed into Team Canada around game 50.

The Devils went on a 20-25 game stretch where they just trucked everyone every night and we ran right into that. At this point, we don't even know who that team is gonna be in the spring.

 

[Flan the incredible]

pts/60 is similar. Their production is similar.

Being handcuffed by a young true 1C vs a soon to be 30 year old middle6C, is slightly different

There not though. If you are going to say Lindholms numbers are inflated playing with Gaudreau and Tkachuk but not say the same about Trocheck its not an honest conversation. Trocheck also plays on one of the top PP units in the game.

Handcuffed is handcuffed. Rangers would have to trade away a lot to fit in EP not just in terms of talent but also salary. Its apples and oranges comparing one of the top 5 centers in the game arguably who is going to get 10mill+ (probably 11millish) to a player who will make 7ish. 4 Million is massive. I also think the odds of getting EP is the same as the Rangers getting McDavid. McDavid actually might be lower as the Oilers are terrible.

 

[mas0764]

We keep hearing about how Kakko has demonstrated success. What was his success? Being a 0.39 PPG player for his career?

Nobody is overreacting to Kakko's 3 points in 19 games. I think everyone is expecting he goes on a run of production at some point. I think what people are saying is that it's 19 games into his fifth season and he isn't any better than what he was.

Sure, the third line sucks right now. It's basically a fourth line without Chytil. That's something to consider. That being said, Kakko wasn't producing with a LW that's on pace for 56 goals. Kreider and Zibanejad have started to produce at 5v5 as soon as we got Kakko away from them.

Not sure I’d say it was “as soon as” they moved him off the line. I'm not sure that has much to do with it.

 

[Levitate]

I think the Rangers defensive zone coverage can definitely get scrambly at times and mixed up. Dunno how to fix that but hope just more time and practice will help that. They're not the tightest team at actually defending for long stretches.

They tend to play a lot better defensively (not allowing shots etc) when they shut down the neutral zone or just allow one and done shots preferably from low quality scoring areas. But sometimes you get trapped in your own end, that's just how it gos

 

[Savant]

Oil tossing the whole team in the bin? Any of those losers worth it? I never even think about that toxic bunch outside of the occasional unrealistic thought about landing depressed McDave.

You know, I honestly would not hate Hyman (would probably need Chytil and/or Kakko to make it make sense; would also still have hole at Center) ; but I also do not think Edmonton is ready to blow it up yet, rightfully or wrongfully. They are always a McDavid hot streak from being right back into it, and if they go into sell mode, they may as well just dump McDavid (and Leon) too and go scorched Earth. If they do go that route, I find it hard to believe that they are letting Holland make those moves.

 

[duhmetreE]

There not though. If you are going to say Lindholms numbers are inflated playing with Gaudreau and Tkachuk but not say the same about Trocheck its not an honest conversation. Trocheck also plays on one of the top PP units in the game.

Handcuffed is handcuffed. Rangers would have to trade away a lot to fit in EP not just in terms of talent but also salary. Its apples and oranges comparing one of the top 5 centers in the game arguably who is going to get 10mill+ (probably 11millish) to a player who will make 7ish. 4 Million is massive. I also think the odds of getting EP is the same as the Rangers getting McDavid. McDavid actually might be lower as the Oilers are terrible.

No. Lindholm had a ONE career year with Gaudreau and Tkachuk. That's not his normal production rate. Their production besides that one season are very similar.

One is worth the headache. The other is not. Neither are likely to happen.

 

[SA16]

In my head, I would slide Chytil to RW and play Hayton at center. Othmann and Lafreniere are long-term RWers and I think Berard could play RW as well. I'm not overly concerned long term there

Chytil hasn't played wing for any significant length of time for like six years and they've shown time and time again, with multiple coaches, that want him to play center.

The chance their long term RWs are Lafreniere and two guys who have yet to play a single NHL game is extremely low.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm looking around the league on the teams that are floundering a bit and here are the guys that at least catch my eye:

Blake Coleman
3 years left @ $4.95m then UFA
If Calgary continues to flounder this season, would they consider trying to off-load some of their longer term deals? Would Calgary retain for that term to shake things up and alleviate some cap? What if the Rangers could get Coleman @ $3m for this year and 3 more? He's a consistent 35-40 point (over 82 games) speedy winger who plays a gritty style and is very good on possession numbers. Clearly overpaid but would he be a fit?


Boone Jenner
2 years left @ $3.75m then UFA
Columbus may look to clean house after everything that went on with Babcock and Jenner, the Captain, may actually prefer a new home as well. He's a C/LW power forward who plays a hard nosed game that should lend itself well to the playoffs.


Nico Sturm
1 more year @ $2m then UFA
Strum is intriguing because last year was a bit of a revelation for him with 26 points in 74 games along with a 55.8% FO% and 40 takeaways to just 19 giveaways. He would fit in well with what Drury appears to be wanting from his 4th line and his 2 points in 19 games this season should mean the cost should be pretty low. The key would need to be that San Jose would need to retain for both this season and next which would mean San Jose would be at the max number of contracts they could retain on.


Ryan McLeod
1 more year @ $2.1m then RFA
McLeod is a good, young center with speed and who plays with tenacity. His possession numbers are very good this year on a very bad Edmonton team and he's a pretty good PKer as well. I think it would be unlikely that Edmonton would move him but he would be a really solid bottom-6 addition for the foreseeable future.

Adam Henrique
Final year of his contract
Henrique has always been a bit of a water-bug player. He has solid effort and knows how to score in and around the net. He's not overly flashy but he consistently puts up 30-40 points per season and can play wing or center.

 

[TominNC]

Johnny Brodz leads the whole AHL in points with 25 in 16 games lol

And would have nothing here. He's an older guy scoring on kids and leftovers. He's proven time ad again he's not an NHL player. So I don't care if he score 50 pts in 16 games

 

[NYR Viper]

And would have nothing here. He's an older guy scoring on kids and leftovers. He's proven time ad again he's not an NHL player. So I don't care if he score 50 pts in 16 games

I'm confident that given 19 games, he would have equal to or more points than Bonino. But points aren't everything