Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VII: Return of Beaver Brad

[NickyFotiu]

McIlrath has been given a fair shake in the NHL. I think the Rangers gave him more of a fair shake than any other team, tbh.

I agree with you because its not just about games. Coaches see a lot of stuff in practices. My only exception was that Dylan played pretty well in around a 15 game stretch and then was benched. Outside of that stretch he was up and down as a player.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I may have been Dylan's biggest fan but the AV wont play younger guys stuff that Bern (and others) push is nonsense. How many former Ranger young players have gone on to do great things after they left AV? I will wait for you to count them all up.

McIlrath would have had a heck of a career if he was born 10-15 yrs earlier......

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Lol wants to get McIlrath to 'stick it to AV'

The guy went to 2 other teams last year, one of them a bottom 5 club and couldn't get pro minutes.

And sure, trade two guys we just signed because why not? Bern said so. Not illogical at all!!

Also, for your fear of NTC/NMC uou sure have no issue just tossing these guys anywhere you please. Why would Staal waive to DET?

The sad and scary thing is that there are posters here who still legitimately believe he wasn't given a fair enough shot during his tenure here. And I believe in that group there is a lot of crossover with the advanced stats crowd.

 

[NickyFotiu]

McIlrath would have had a heck of a career if he was born 10-15 yrs earlier......

I think Dylan may have even had a good career even in today's game if he didn't have two significant knee injuries before he got to the NHL.

NHL career aside the kid is a great guy and a natural leader. I hope he finds a place in the game even if it is not as a player down the road.

 

[Fitzy]

McIlrath would have had a heck of a career if he was born 10-15 yrs earlier......

I mean, Purinton did reach 180 NHL games. That's a heck of a career by some people's standards.

 

[Levitate]

The sad and scary thing is that there are posters here who still legitimately believe he wasn't given a fair enough shot during his tenure here. And I believe in that group there is a lot of crossover with the advanced stats crowd.

Eh, there's a good argument that he got kinda screwed by the vets first mentality that AV (and most NHL coaches) can have. He did play quite well for a stretch when he was covering for an injured player, but was benched after that despite some pretty terrible play from guys like Girardi and Klein. I mean that was the stretch where Girardi was playing with a broken kneecap and looks like a slug getting around the ice, but the coaches wanted to play him even though he was playing poorly

On the other hand, McIlrath wasn't as steady in his other opportunities he got after that and in pro sports, when you're trying to crack the lineup, you really don't get the excuse of "but he lost confidence and had no rhythm!" You have to be ready and produce no matter what because everyone is looking at you to prove you can do it day in and day out in any circumstance

 

[Edge]

Dylan McIlrath is one of those guys who was caught in one of the faster transition periods in recent NHL memory.

The approach to defensive and building a roster changed rapidly between 2010 and 2015. The only recent change I can compare it to was the change in scoring and defensive schemes between 1991 and 1995.

In many ways, McIlrath is the antithesis of Brady Skjei.

Skjei was a late first round pick because he didn't "fit" into one of the more eye-catching molds that we used to place defensemen - "physical stay at home" and "offensive." He played a two-way game and efficiently did his job as a defenseman.

Since being drafted, that has become the starting point for what a lot of teams are looking at, and being a 5 goal, 35 point defenseman who can cover a lot of ground is a hotter commodity than ever before.

McIlrath on the other hand quickly found that his game was not quick enough to keep up with a game that has kept getting faster and faster. Granted, two major knee injuries didn't hurt, but the reality is that even without those injuries, McIlrath was going to have a very difficult time sticking in today's NHL.

 

[NY Lito]

Dylan McIlrath is one of those guys who was caught in one of the faster transition periods in recent NHL memory.

The approach to defensive and building a roster changed rapidly between 2010 and 2015. The only recent change I can compare it to was the change in scoring and defensive schemes between 1991 and 1995.

In many ways, McIlrath is the antithesis of Brady Skjei.

Skjei was a late first round pick because he didn't "fit" into one of the more eye-catching molds that we used to place defensemen - "physical stay at home" and "offensive." He played a two-way game and efficiently did his job as a defenseman.

Since being drafted, that has become the starting point for what a lot of teams are looking at, and being a 5 goal, 35 point defenseman who can cover a lot of ground is a hotter commodity than ever before.

McIlrath on the other hand quickly found that his game was not quick enough to keep up with a game that has kept getting faster and faster. Granted, two major knee injuries didn't hurt, but the reality is that even without those injuries, McIlrath was going to have a very difficult time sticking in today's NHL.

Could not agree more. The "physical stay at home" defenseman is going extinct. The game is all about speed, skating, and quick transitions now.

 

[Levitate]

Thing is that when he was drafted, McIlrath was also considered to be a good skater "for his size", and in some ways he is...he's not super lumbering and slow, but there's a certain element of quick feet and lateral movement that he lacks which worked against him, along with the knee injuries. IMO he's probably not worse than a whole lot of 3rd pairing defensemen in the league but again you have the guys who have been in the league awhile and get the benefit of a doubt, and then you have the new players who in some ways are held to a higher standard and expected to be more modern with their game. He got kind of stuck inbetween there.

e: I kind of wonder how a lot of those prospects the Rangers had back in the day would have panned out these days. Novak, Smrek, even guys like Berard, etc. Not bigtime offensive players but not your classic stay at homers so they didn't fit into those categories teams were looking for back then. e2; Pock, Rachunek, Lampman...Joel Bouchard! hah e3: Kondratiev!!!

And wow, looking at some of the early 2000's rosters...blast from the past. I was in college watching early versions of NHL center ice and seeing the Rangers stink it up...

 

[E-Train]

Skjei was a late first round pick because he didn't "fit" into one of the more eye-catching molds that we used to place defensemen - "physical stay at home" and "offensive." He played a two-way game and efficiently did his job as a defenseman.

Skjei has become a steal. 28th overall when he's clearly top 5 in that draft.

 

[Edge]

Could not agree more. The "physical stay at home" defenseman is going extinct. The game is all about speed, skating, and quick transitions now.

In many ways, guys like McD and Skjei are what teams are zeroing in on. Obviously everyone wants a Karlsson, but two-way guys who can play in any situation, put up their share of points, and most important, cover a lot of ground on the blueline are worth more than ever before.

Someone who projects in a similar manner to what Skjei has developed into is easily a top 10 pick now.

It's one of the big reasons why any trade discussions involved Skjei would be a non-starter to me. His game is one of the most sought after commodities in the NHL today. If this kid manages to add 3-5 more goals, and 5-10 more points,while continuing to mature defensively, he is going to be in very exclusive company.

 

[Levitate]

In many ways, guys like McD and Skjei are what teams are zeroing in on. Obviously everyone wants a Karlsson, but two-way guys who can play in any situation, put up their share of points, and most important, cover a lot of ground on the blueline are worth more than ever before.

Someone who projects in a similar manner to what Skjei has developed into is easily a top 10 pick now.

It's one of the big reasons why any trade discussions involved Skjei would be a non-starter to me. His game is one of the most sought after commodities in the NHL today. If this kid manages to add 3-5 more goals, and 5-10 more points,while continuing to mature defensively, he is going to be in very exclusive company.

For sure, even if he doesn't put up more points, a 40 point defenseman that skates as well as he does and plays well defensively is incredibly valuable in the NHL, especially at his age and contract status.

 

[Edge]

Skjei has become a steal. 28th overall when he's clearly top 5 in that draft.

I think if he picks up where he left off, and even takes it up a notch, he's right there - easily.

I just did a quick glance of the first round of that draft and without giving it more than a few seconds thought, I easily found 14-17 players I'd for sure take him over. If he doesn't backslide, and his offensive production is legit, it only increases from there. The samples sizes are still so small from 2012, but he has a great shot of being one of the top guys to come from that draft.

 

[nyr2k2]

We're going to have to learn to abandon the "good skater for his size" thing, particularly as it pertains to defenseman. In today's game either you can skate or you can't. Being large no longer is a free pass to be a mediocre skater.

 

[Mac n Gs]

We're going to have to learn to abandon the "good skater for his size" thing, particularly as it pertains to defenseman. In today's game either you can skate or you can't. Being large no longer is a free pass to be a mediocre skater.

Preach, nyr2k2, preach.

 

[Edge]

Thing is that when he was drafted, McIlrath was also considered to be a good skater "for his size", and in some ways he is...he's not super lumbering and slow, but there's a certain element of quick feet and lateral movement that he lacks which worked against him, along with the knee injuries. IMO he's probably not worse than a whole lot of 3rd pairing defensemen in the league but again you have the guys who have been in the league awhile and get the benefit of a doubt, and then you have the new players who in some ways are held to a higher standard and expected to be more modern with their game. He got kind of stuck inbetween there.

e: I kind of wonder how a lot of those prospects the Rangers had back in the day would have panned out these days. Novak, Smrek, even guys like Berard, etc. Not bigtime offensive players but not your classic stay at homers so they didn't fit into those categories teams were looking for back then. e2; Pock, Rachunek, Lampman...Joel Bouchard! hah e3: Kondratiev!!!

And wow, looking at some of the early 2000's rosters...blast from the past. I was in college watching early versions of NHL center ice and seeing the Rangers stink it up...

It's amazing to see some of the names from 1997-2004.

It's funny you should mention some of the prospects of yesteryear. Just the other day I was thinking that a guy like Bryce Lampman would potentially have done better in today's NHL.

I also think to players like Bret Hedican, who seemingly flew under the radar despite having a valued 16 some odd year career in which he played more than a thousand NHL games. He wasn't a bruiser and he wasn't an offensive defenseman, so he was never in the spotlight. But in today's NHL his value was be even greater.

As for McIlrath, I think the lateral movement was a problem, as was the overall speed of the game. Beyond foot speed, I'm not sure his ability to read and react ever quite kept up with the direction of the game in the 7 years since he was drafted.

When he was drafted I felt he was going to play regularly in the NHL in some capacity (unlike a Hugh Jessiman). I cautioned that I wasn't sure he'd ever quite justify being picked ahead of some of the guys he was, but he'd likely play. However, the game changed so rapidly, it started to become pretty obvious that was going to be an uphill climb.

With McIlrath I will also admit that I never quite saw the progress I was hoping to see, even at the WHL level. There was never quite that feeling that he made a big stride or two. Instead it felt like his progress was pretty moderate. Not flat per say, but not quite as noticeable as one would hope from a player who was taken 10th overall.

 

[Edge]

We're going to have to learn to abandon the "good skater for his size" thing, particularly as it pertains to defenseman. In today's game either you can skate or you can't. Being large no longer is a free pass to be a mediocre skater.

I agree completely.

I also think defensemen who can't defend are going the way of the Dodo, regardless of their offensive potential.

Defensemen more than ever are like quality center fielders or shortstops in baseball. They need to cover a lot of ground and offense is considered gravy.

 

[E-Train]

I think if he picks up where he left off, and even takes it up a notch, he's right there - easily.

I just did a quick glance of the first round of that draft and without giving it more than a few seconds thought, I easily found 14-17 players I'd for sure take him over. If he doesn't backslide, and his offensive production is legit, it only increases from there. The samples sizes are still so small from 2012, but he has a great shot of being one of the top guys to come from that draft.

I saw Lindholm, Trouba, Forsberg and Rielly as ranked higher for now. 5 years out we could see Skjei
right there towards the top.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I saw Lindholm, Trouba, Forsberg and Rielly as ranked higher for now. 5 years out we could see Skjei
right there towards the top.

Rielly shouldn't be ranked higher but Slavin and Parayko should be.

 

[Levitate]

As for McIlrath, I think the lateral movement was a problem, as was the overall speed of the game. Beyond foot speed, I'm not sure his ability to read and react ever quite kept up with the direction of the game in the 7 years since he was drafted.

With McIlrath I will also admit that I never quite saw the progress I was hoping to see, even at the WHL level. There was never quite that feeling that he made a big stride or two. Instead it felt like his progress was pretty moderate. Not flat per say, but not quite as noticeable as one would hope from a player who was taken 10th overall.

Yeah I was thinking about how well he processed the speed of the game. Not sure if he had some more time at the NHL level he would have adapted. I think he was also trying very hard to be a good puck mover and sometimes held onto it a bit, but yeah also recognizing what's going on defensively and getting into position, etc, was a bit slow.

Also agree he didn't ever take large steps. Injuries could again be a big part of that, but when he was drafted people felt he had made large strides over previous years and since he started playing hockey, and the hope was that he'd continue to progress in that way. Didn't quite work out.

 

[Edge]

Yeah I was thinking about how well he processed the speed of the game. Not sure if he had some more time at the NHL level he would have adapted. I think he was also trying very hard to be a good puck mover and sometimes held onto it a bit, but yeah also recognizing what's going on defensively and getting into position, etc, was a bit slow.

Also agree he didn't ever take large steps. Injuries could again be a big part of that, but when he was drafted people felt he had made large strides over previous years and since he started playing hockey, and the hope was that he'd continue to progress in that way. Didn't quite work out.

It's also a cautionary tale about getting too far ahead of ourselves on these kids.

I think everyone wants to feel like they were all-in on the ground floor, but sometimes we need to temper expectations.

You had a number of people who were throwing around comparisons to Weber and other top guys when McIlrath was drafted and I remember feeling particularly concerned about it. Heck, I remember people coming up with stat comparisons and all kinds of "evidence" to support the claim.

If nothing else, it's a lesson about being careful today with kids like Andersson, or Chytil, or Pionk. While they may have similarities to certain players, and may someday become similar players to established stars, there's a huge difference between those two concepts.

 

[Levitate]

Prospects don't always develop in a linear way. Some develop in leaps and bounds, other in a steady fashion, some never develop at all, some do all three over the course of their development. Pretty tough to bet on a guy developing in a specific way when they're 17-18

 

[E-Train]

Rielly shouldn't be ranked higher but Slavin and Parayko should be.

You're right. I didn't look beyond the 1st.

 

[Machinehead]

Did you guys hear the Rangers lost 212 pounds this off-season?

 

[LORDE]

Did you guys hear the Rangers lost 212 pounds this off-season?

Is this a Dan Girardi joke?