Roster Building Thread: Part VII (2023-24)

[Synergy27]

I don't think Panarin is a lazy player per se; rather I think the problem we have with him is his game doesn't 'fit' with what we believe is the 'epitome' of NY Ranger play style.

It's kind of like if we had McDavid here, and we said, 'Hey man we really like the speed, stick handling and scoring prowess but we think you need to play a bit more like Dylan McIlrath.'

Square peg and all that.

The problem is that he doesn’t score any points in the playoffs. It’s a very simple thing.

I hate the way he plays but I wouldn’t give a shit if he was scoring a billion points in the playoffs like McD does. These things are linked because the way he plays is what prevents him from scoring when the going gets tough.

 

[eco's bones]

Looking at the 23 guys that Cap Friendly has for the Rangers in 23-24 I think that's likely a good guess depending on say whether Othmann or Cuylle can beat out someone like Belzile or Pitlick. We'd have to drop a guy because we're $46 over the limit but it's likely we weren't going with 23 but with 22 and not carrying 8 D. To get a league minimum for Kane that would likely be Jones. Anyone we have making over the $1 range we pretty much need and Wheeler and Gustafsson are making the team.

Say Kane did sign for that.....all season long then we can look forward to hearing from at least half of the posters here----'what's wrong with Kakko?' when Wheeler and Kane are getting all the power play and top 6 time. 'How come he never takes the next step? blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah'----that incessant whine and 'why don't we trade him? he's down on the third f***ing line again and he'll never be more than an average hockey player'. Kaapo needs to move up and get real opportunity----something that he's never really got before.

 

[GAGLine]

Apologies for my lack of knowledge as well as choice of forum but I am REALLY hoping someone can answer a few quick questions for me about Vincent Trochek:

1. What line/which players did Trochek play most with last season?
2. What PowerPlay line did Trochek predominantly play last season?
3. Do you envision Trochek having similar, more, or less vital role as last season.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

1. Mostly 2nd line with Panarin and a rotating RW (Kakko, Goodrow, Vesey, Tarasenko, Kane)
2. 1st PP unit until the trade deadline, then mostly 2nd unit
3. It's hard to say with a new coach. My hope is that he's used as more of a role player. Playing PK, taking key faceoffs, and used to matchup/shutdown other top lines. 2nd or 3rd line depending on the opponent so that Chytil can get some time in the top 6. 2nd PP unit so at least one of Kakko, Laf or Chytil can get some time on PP1.

 

[TominNC]

Okay so now we’re moving goal posts? 92 points just 2 years ago is irrelevant because it doesn’t fit your perception of him?

This is a HOF bound player. 1st ballot. If they can get him to sign for $3 million or less you do it. And you especially do it so you are not forking over assets at the trade deadline to add a top 9 player to upgrade on Jimmy Vesey…again.

I was answering different posts by different people, not moving anything.

He WAS a 92 point player. For another team. What was he worth overall when his defensive deficiencies are included?

He's going to the HoF for what he did in the PAST for another franchise. For us he is what he is now, a soft no defense player, coming off an injury and surgery who will be 35.

We already have a 92 point player who is soft and not a great defender who people want to run off because of how he performs in the playoffs. Now you want to add another who is older and broken down?

I've had decades of watching the Rangers grab the big name FORMER star.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I was answering different posts by different people, not moving anything.

He WAS a 92 point player. For another team. What was he worth overall when his defensive deficiencies are included?

He's going to the HoF for what he did in the PAST for another franchise. For us he is what he is now, a soft no defense player, coming off an injury and surgery who will be 35.

We already have a 92 point player who is soft and not a great defender who people want to run off because of how he performs in the playoffs. Now you want to add another who is older and broken down?

I've had decades of watching the Rangers grab the big name FORMER star.

he's making near league minimum. This isn't us overpaying for someone 5 seasons removed from a 100 point season.
This is us paying someone well under their expected value, to add some depth.

I wont argue that he's a poor defender, but soft? No. Wheeler isn't soft. He's just slower than he was.

His cap hit shows he's not going to block anyone ready to come up. He's got a NTC not a NMC so he could be waived/buried if we needed.
And again, to reiterate, he's depth not a primary scoring asset.

 

[NYR94]

he's making near league minimum. This isn't us overpaying for someone 5 seasons removed from a 100 point season.
This is us paying someone well under their expected value, to add some depth.

I wont argue that he's a poor defender, but soft? No. Wheeler isn't soft. He's just slower than he was.

His cap hit shows he's not going to block anyone ready to come up. He's got a NTC not a NMC so he could be waived/buried if we needed.
And again, to reiterate, he's depth not a primary scoring asset.

The person you're responding to is talking about Kane, not Wheeler.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Lines with Kane on a cheap contract, the best part is not having to give up big assets at the deadline for a trade, just add some minor tweaks and head to playoffs.

Lafreniere Zibanejad kane
Panarin chytil Kakko
Kreider Trochek Wheeler
Vesey Bonino goodrow

Or

Laf Zib Kakko
Panarin Chytil Wheeler
Kreider trochek Kane

3 balanced lines that can score, providing Kane is healthy ofcourse.

 

[TominNC]

he's making near league minimum. This isn't us overpaying for someone 5 seasons removed from a 100 point season.
This is us paying someone well under their expected value, to add some depth.

I wont argue that he's a poor defender, but soft? No. Wheeler isn't soft. He's just slower than he was.

His cap hit shows he's not going to block anyone ready to come up. He's got a NTC not a NMC so he could be waived/buried if we needed.
And again, to reiterate, he's depth not a primary scoring asset.

I’m talking about Kane

Lines with Kane on a cheap contract, the best part is not having to give up big assets at the deadline for a trade, just add some minor tweaks and head to playoffs.

Lafreniere Zibanejad kane
Panarin chytil Kakko
Kreider Trochek Wheeler
Vesey Bonino goodrow

Or

Laf Zib Kakko
Panarin Chytil Wheeler
Kreider trochek Kane

3 balanced lines that can score, providing Kane is healthy ofcourse.

And here we go with Kane on first line. Please no

 

[IDvsEGO]

I’m talking about Kane


And here we go with Kane on first line. Please no

I retract my comment, and yeah thats why i want no part of kane.
Because if you assume he's mvp kane, then yeah you get deep real quickly, but he hasn't been that kane in 3+ years and more importantly he'd mess with any chemistry the team develops.

 

[pld459666]

3. Really hard to say with a new coach.

I think VT is the exact type of Lavy player

I'd expect a pretty decent role this year.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Has the date for the start of training camp been announced yet?

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Kane can't even play, why are we arguing about him?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I’m talking about Kane


And here we go with Kane on first line. Please no

If he's healthy, a 70-80 point player and isn't taking spots from kakko and Lafreniere i have no issue with it. The only reason he's on the "1st" line is because i dont want him and Panarin together. As i posted he can be on the 3rd line instead of Wheeler if need be but if he's healthy he's better than Wheeler.

 

[haohmaru]

Let's see how Kakko/Lafreniere/Wheeler do on the right side before fantasizing about a guy that might not ever play at the same level again or ever again.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Kane can't even play, why are we arguing about him?

*Kane isnt kane without 2 hips, his speed and agility was lacking because of it. I guess where i sit is that I'm not totally sure i want him but he's gonna be the best value contract we can find if he's willing to make the numbers work, and we won't have to give up assets for him. The other side is that God forbid something happens to Kakko, our right side is abysmally bad without him, Wheeler, Goodrow and Vesey. Even losing Wheeler would make this team an easy target on that side.

Let's see how Kakko/Lafreniere/Wheeler do on the right side before fantasizing about a guy that might not ever play at the same level again or ever again.

He's already skating 3 months after surgery, pretty sure he's playing.

 

[LORDE]

I'm in Jacksonville, agreed

I work up there a couple weeks a month... 2 weeks ago it was unbearable. Now isn't much better. At least we've had some rain. I've never seen an Aug with zero rain but still mid 90s & humid. So odd

 

[GAGLine]

He's already skating 3 months after surgery, pretty sure he's playing.

The question is how well.

Professional athletes that get hip resurfacing surgery typically do not have successful returns

The Washington Capitals announced on Saturday afternoon that legendary center Nicklas Backstrom underwent hip resurfacing surgery. The team called the surgery a…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

Jovanovski went through a long rehabilitation process afterward — a full year — and went on to play only 37 more games in the NHL during the 2013-14 season. The sad part is that’s considered the most successful return for an NHLer after getting a resurfacing done.

The one small beacon of hope in an otherwise doom and gloom world of hip replacements is former tennis world number one, Andy Murray. Murray had the procedure done by the same exact surgeon that did Jovanovski’s, Dr. Edwin Su, and was able to return to at least be competitive at major tournaments. He hasn’t reached his previous heights but the 35-year-old Scot is 16-9 in singles action in 2022 after going a combined 30-27 in 2018-2021, a period in which he had two separate hip surgeries including the resurfacing.

The above is an article discussing Backstrom's outlook after having the same surgery. Backstrom was the same age (34) as Kane is now. He had 21 points in 39 games last season after coming back from the surgery.

Anyone expecting big things from Kane this season is likely to be disappointed.

 

[haohmaru]

He's already skating 3 months after surgery, pretty sure he's playing.

All that tells you is that he's skating. Whether or not he'll play at an NHL level again, or HIS level, is entirely up in the air.

The question is how well.

Professional athletes that get hip resurfacing surgery typically do not have successful returns

The Washington Capitals announced on Saturday afternoon that legendary center Nicklas Backstrom underwent hip resurfacing surgery. The team called the surgery a…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

The above is an article discussing Backstrom's outlook after having the same surgery. Backstrom was the same age (34) as Kane is now. He had 21 points in 39 games last season after coming back from the surgery.

Anyone expecting big things from Kane this season is likely to be disappointed.

To be fair, Jovanovski said he didn't retire because of the injury.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Woke up at 7:30 to a crisp 58˚ here in CT...even better was the lack of humidity.

Ew yo.

This is the worst time of year.

Also, this summer wasn’t even that hot up here in NY, very mild.

 

[Rongomania]

Ew yo.

This is the worst time of year.

Also, this summer wasn’t even that hot up here in NY, very mild.

A truly weird summer. Seems they keep getting weirder.

Additionally, last week I was at Long Beach lawng island and the water was not only 'Caribbean warm' but it was the clearest I've ever seen it in 30+ years swimming there ... I saw my feet at over 4ft deep.

Historically fugly ocean water... Supposed to heat up this week yeah?

Strange times guys.

 

[Fitzy]

No one should argue that Wheeler or Kane don’t make this roster better.

One argument though is that coaches can’t help themselves, in crunch situations they tend to give all the big minutes to the experience veterans even if they aren’t the top performers on that given night.

You just know that the NYR goalie pull 5 forwards are going to be Panarin, Zib, Kreider, Wheeler, Trocheck, Fox.

 

[OriginalLimbo]

Even they realize the benefits to balancing the lineup by putting Laf and Kakko with Z. The idea that Z shouldn't be the shutdown center is correct, he should be the offense first center along with our youngest, highest potential, wingers.

Kreider and Trocheck should form the shutdown line with either Wheeler or Vesey on the other side. I vote Wheeler. Shutdown doesn't mean they will just get shelled in their zone all f***ing game by the other teams best line so other lines can get an easier time. This line would likely be very difficult to even get into our zone on with their collective speed, aggressiveness, physicality, talent and offensive ability. This is a shutdown line cause it matches up against the other teams best line and hammers them in their zone.

Chytil at this point deserves to play with Panarin to see if his goal scoring can be propelled by Panarin's passing. I see it as that simple. Chytil shoots the puck a lot and has a knack for finding areas to get that shot off. He isn't much of a passer himself. So, get the puck to Panarin, get open, and shoot. The RW on that line would likely be Vesey or Wheeler. Unless Othmann really puts on a show.

The 4th line is the 4th line so we will see and the defense is what it is. Nothing really surprising to be determined there.

This is a good post. That is all.

 

[CTTribe73]

Maybe if Panarin took a hit to make a play instead of avoiding contact and turning the puck off that is the real issue with Panarin besides not showing up in the playoffs. Kreider shows up in the playoffs. Panarin does not

I get that's what we want. But that's not his game at all. He needs others to do the hitting for him. And that's not going to change anytime soon so we have to deal with it.

 

[Synergy27]

If we’re not playing Kane on the first line and the PP, what are we doing with him? Why do people want to sign this guy?

He’s not a third liner. We need some gritty skill in the bottom six.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If we’re not playing Kane on the first line and the PP, what are we doing with him? Why do people want to sign this guy?

He’s not a third liner. We need some gritty skill in.m the bottom six.

Depending on what you believe a 3rd line is really, if Kreider Trochek and Kane are your third line getting mins against other 3rd and 4th lines its points night for them. The best defense is great offense. If you control the puck you win the game. Especially if we are getting him at a price you'd expect to pay a 3rd or 4th line player, without trading assets away. 3 scoring lines is hard to defend.