Roster Building Thread: Part VII (2023-24)

[UnSandvich]

If Trouba could actually hit the net, PP2 would have a shot at being effective at least occasionally. I think we’ve all seen how hard he struggles with that though.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

If Trouba could actually hit the net, PP2 would have a shot at being effective at least occasionally. I think we’ve all seen how hard he struggles with that though.

Miller needs to replace him. He’s not good at walking the line but at least he can get shots on net, unlike Tuba, who didn’t even have the same power in his slap shots last season probably due to that hand injury he’s been playing with.

 

[17futurecap]

Going to pass on taking Mika, Panarin, Kreider and Fox off the ice sooner.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Miller needs to replace him. He’s not good at walking the line but at least he can get shots on net, unlike Tuba, who didn’t even have the same power in his slap shots last season probably due to that hand injury he’s been playing with.

I think Gustafsson will start in that spot this year. If he sucks, then maybe Trouba or Miller backdoors into it (though Trouba is absolutely awful on the PP, coaches don't seem to think so).

If Jones surprises and makes the opening lineup, I think he could quickly prove to be better than either of them on PP2.

 

[mas0764]

I already figured out how:

There are ways in real life too.

 

[mas0764]

Lafreniere is very adept at even strength scoring and I've never said otherwise. My issue is the notion that he's doing it in third line minutes. He's not. He doesn't play third line minutes.

If that's what he is at 21, and you were getting some PP production out of him, that wouldn't be so bad.

Therein lies the problem. I'm all for Kakko getting an extended look on PP1. I think he's at least earned a look. You simply can't justify, as a coach, putting Lafreniere on PP1 right now. It's a fireable offense.

But I have to believe power play production is something that can be figured out for him. It's unheard of that a guy that adept prior to the NHL suddenly is completely incompetent on the man advantage.

If anything, his weakness should be when he has less space and his strength should be when he has more space.

I think a lot of the problem is mental and confidence with this guy.

That's ultimately a problem he has to get over, but I don't think the past two coaches did him any favors either.

What's funny is Lafreniere's stats @ 5v5 are actually pretty good, especially considering many players gain confidence from scoring on the PP, which rolls over to their 5v5 numbers

Right, there's still hope there for a good player. Even if it's never Jack Hughes level.

 

[SRHRangers]

It's never really talked about.

If you are set with Panarin and Krieder at LW, and the consensus 1ov is a strict LW.

Why wasn't the pick traded? They was plenty of interest.

The Panarin/Trouba spending spree and the Krieder resigning turned the rebuild into a reload situation.

 

[mas0764]

I agree that the situations are very different.

If you want to say Kakko 1) got jerked around and 2) clearly shows a lot of talent, you'll hear no arguments from me on either point.

Kakko was good on PP1 his rookie year and got taken off of it. Quinn asked him to be good at defense, he got great at defense, and got benched anyway. Last year he was on by far the most effective line we put together all year (Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko) and we put the kibosh on that for no reason.

On other hand, Lafreniere has just not impressed me at all despite his fair share of opportunities.

I posted the TOI earlier. Kakko was 5th and Lafreniere was 6th. Ok, but Kakko is clearly our best RW and should arguably be higher than 5th because of the way the lineup shakes out. Lafreniere is by far our 3rd best LW so when he's top 6 in minutes, that shows me you're going out of your way to give him extra shifts.

I think I heard recently that the Panarin - Trocheck - Lafreniere line was actually really good before they got broken up, but I don't have those numbers on hand.

It's never really talked about.

If you are set with Panarin and Krieder at LW, and the consensus 1ov is a strict LW.

Why wasn't the pick traded? They was plenty of interest.

The Panarin/Trouba spending spree and the Krieder resigning turned the rebuild into a reload situation.

Cause you don't trade what is viewed as a transcendent talent.

 

[SRHRangers]

I think I heard recently that the Panarin - Trocheck - Lafreniere line was actually really good before they got broken up, but I don't have those numbers on hand.


Cause you don't trade what is viewed as a transcendent talent.

Most situations, I would agree.

But he was buried before he even got on the ice. His play hasn't knocked down the door, but he got put behind 18 mil worth of AAV NMC LWers.

 

[Fitzy]

I wouldn't hate Trouba on the PP, he just can't be at the top of their current set up.

IMO pp2 should be 3-2 with Trouba as the right handed shooter from the left wall.

It lets the line transition more easily to even strength, provides a triggerman, and allows Gus/Jones to PPQB.

Trouba would play down near where Nils Lundkvist used to set up in Sweden.

I think I heard recently that the Panarin - Trocheck - Lafreniere line was actually really good before they got broken up, but I don't have those numbers on hand.



Cause you don't trade what is viewed as a transcendent talent.

Transcendant? Even at the draft Laf was being called more of a 80 point guy than a possible hall of fame.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I hate to put everything on training, but the PP "issues" really felt driven by coaching, or a lack thereof.
The 1st unit was two high end skill players creating space, two guys with a specific (coached) shot/tip dual threat, and a fifth guy to fill out space. And the talent mostly made it work, but felt anemic when it wasn't.
The 2nd unit couldn't complete a zone entry half the time, and when they did Trouba sat at center ice. I don't think the players lack the skill to enter the zone 5 on 4. They just looked like they didn't have a plan.

Yes, the Rangers had no plan B. They tried the same shit every freaking game and teams figure that stuff out quick. It's really easy to clog up the neutral zone, even with a man down, when you know exactly what's coming.

 

[Deas]

Kakko will be our 1RW like he was last year.
View attachment 739764

(TOI in all situations)

So he was winger for Ziba and/or Trochek alot? TOI doesn’t say everything.

 

[SRHRangers]

I think I heard recently that the Panarin - Trocheck - Lafreniere line was actually really good before they got broken up, but I don't have those numbers on hand.



Cause you don't trade what is viewed as a transcendent talent.

Huberdeau comps are not transcendent. Very good player comp, but not generational.

 

[Machinehead]

So he was winger for Ziba and/or Trochek alot? TOI doesn’t say everything.

TOI says a lot more about who's actually being used and in what capacity than the subjective line ordering you get from Vince on Twitter.

The lines written down on the bulletin board mean nothing to me. It's not a real game situation. Your top six forwards are the six forwards who play the most.

Kakko spent about 55% of his shifts with Filip Chytil which is our "third line" but he spent almost all of the rest of the time with Zibanejad which is our "first line." So is he a third liner or a first liner? Neither. He's a second liner because that's what the TOI over an evolving 82-game sample tells us he is.

 

[SA16]

It's never really talked about.

If you are set with Panarin and Krieder at LW, and the consensus 1ov is a strict LW.

Why wasn't the pick traded? They was plenty of interest.

The Panarin/Trouba spending spree and the Krieder resigning turned the rebuild into a reload situation.

Because on any other team in the league players would switch positions yet were somehow conditioned to believe it’s entirely impossible for someone to move to the other side

 

[Fitzy]

Much of TOI also comes from post PP/PK shifts when the coach rolls a hybrid of lines from rested players not used recently on those units.

Coaches also stretch more out of their top 6 by skipping the bottom 6 shift when there's a TV timeout allowing the players to rest.

Short version for me is that guys like Bonino and Potluck(Oh man new iPhone thanks for the nickname) should never be out there at even strength except when there's a steady rotation of shifts at even strength, and should never be getting bonus shifts over Kakko/Chytil

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So he was winger for Ziba and/or Trochek alot? TOI doesn’t say everything.

FWIW

2022-23 regular season line combinations for Kakko

 

[Tob]

Next summer should be more fun with more cap and Trouba and Kreider with less trade protection. I don't know how you guys find so much to talk about with the roster completely set months ago.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Next summer should be more fun with more cap and Trouba and Kreider with less trade protection. I don't know how you guys find so much to talk about with the roster completely set months ago.

I'm one of the few that think Kreider retires in this jersey.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Next summer should be more fun with more cap and Trouba and Kreider with less trade protection. I don't know how you guys find so much to talk about with the roster completely set months ago.

Kreider would be the last guy I would trade. Who would score the playoff goals, at least he shows up as someone that can score when it counts.

 

[Tob]

Ya but at least we can talk it about

 

[DanielBrassard]

Next summer should be more fun with more cap and Trouba and Kreider with less trade protection. I don't know how you guys find so much to talk about with the roster completely set months ago.

I can’t wait for the trade Trouba debates that’s gonna be great content

 

[GAGLine]

I can’t wait for the trade Trouba debates that’s gonna be great content

Hopefully Schneider will take a couple steps this year and make Trouba expendable.

 

[will1066]

There are ways in real life too.

From your lips to Drury's ears

Next summer should be more fun with more cap and Trouba and Kreider with less trade protection. I don't know how you guys find so much to talk about with the roster completely set months ago.

It's a lot of going in circles. Like the Arc de Triomphe of HFB. I got off the roundabout and am content with looking from the sidewalk.

Hopefully Schneider will take a couple steps this year and make Trouba expendable.

Thought you typed extendable and got afraid

 

[SRHRangers]

I'm one of the few that think Kreider retires in this jersey.

After the new contract and his play the last two years, 100% agree with you.