Roster Building Thread: Part VII (2023-24)

[The Crypto Guy]

I'd be shocked if he isn't traded eventually. Probably in 2 years. We will need that cap space eventually, esp if Laf, Kakko, Miller, Igor need raises, which they will. Just a matter of how much and how good they got.

His production dropped 23 points last season from his fluke season. His numbers will continue to likely go down over this contract.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

He doesn't need more ice time. He needs to score more with the current ice time he has.

He ranks 10th in his draft class in 5v5 P/60. That's not good enough.

Every 1 overall in the last decade plus has gotten significantly more ice time, bigger roles, and longer leashes in every situation.

What's not good enough is the way he's been handled by this organization on and off the ice. Period. That's the fact. That's the only fact.

What's funny is Lafreniere's stats @ 5v5 are actually pretty good, especially considering many players gain confidence from scoring on the PP, which rolls over to their 5v5 numbers

Stop. Don't use logic.

 

[will1066]

I'd be shocked if he isn't traded eventually. Probably in 2 years. We will need that cap space eventually, esp if Laf, Kakko, Miller, Igor need raises, which they will. Just a matter of how much and how good they got.

His production dropped 23 points last season from his fluke season. His numbers will continue to likely go down over this contract.

I agree that it was a fluke so I see last year not as a drop but a return to the mean. I think he continues to be a high performer, using guile over pure skill. Joe Pavelski is still an impact player at 39 doing net front presence.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I agree that it was a fluke so I see last year not as a drop but a return to the mean. I think he continues to be a high performer, using guile over pure skill. Joe Pavelski is still an impact player at 39 doing net front presence.

Pavelski is also a much better offensive player. He's got ten 60+ point seasons under his belt, Kreider just has 1.

Pavelski is also one of the rare players who is still playing at a high level over the age of 35.

 

[will1066]

Pavelski is also a much better offensive player. He's got ten 60+ point seasons under his belt, Kreider just has 1.

Pavelski is also one of the rare players who is still playing at a high level over the age of 35.

Yes, he is. As for Kreider, he is a goal scorer whereas Pavelski is also a playmaker. My point is Kreider isn't going to fall precipitously and get traded in 2 years, based on him adapting his game. He is cerebral enough to do it.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Yes, he is. As for Kreider, he is a goal scorer whereas Pavelski is also a playmaker. My point is Kreider isn't going to fall precipitously and get traded in 2 years, based on him adapting his game. He is cerebral enough to do it.

Kreider only averages about 50 points a season, over his last 6, which should be considered his prime years. If he drops off even 5-10 points he becomes almost a 40 point scorer, I don't think the Rangers will want a 40-45 point scorer at 6.5M. Especially if he is barely doing anything at ES. His Mod-NTC is only 15 teams also, Rangers should have no problem moving him if need be.

 

[will1066]

Kreider only averages about 50 points a season, over his last 6, which should be considered his prime years. If he drops off even 5-10 points he becomes almost a 40 point scorer, I don't think the Rangers will want a 40-45 point scorer at 6.5M. Especially if he is barely doing anything at ES. His Mod-NTC is only 15 teams also, Rangers should have no problem moving him if need be.

A perennial 30+ goal scorer is worth 6.5M. A 5-10 point deviation for him probably means 6-7 goals worth for him, and I don't see that happening if he continues to do net front. 15 on the PP and 15 at ES over 82 games is well within the realm of possibility for him the next 2 years barring major personal physical catastrophe. Even in years prior to him hitting 52, he paced for 30 over 82 when he didn't play 82.

 

[RangersFan1994]

 

[eco's bones]

The Cap should go up a lot more in the next couple years. That may delay some player movement. There is some chance IMO that Kreider and/or Trouba will finish out their contracts with us and it might be something relative to the cap and it might be other moves. I'm almost inclined to say that Panarin is in the same boat as they are. His numbers have declined season to season, he's more a one way player, has not pulled his weight in the playoffs and doesn't have the same leadership abilities. As far as Kreider---a lot will depend on production but he's also become a more adaptable player in terms of defense and penalty killing. Trouba has an X factor--the captaincy is part of that but also opponents have to be careful when he's on the ice....his hitting can be intimidating. Less power play time for him though IMO.

 

[UnSandvich]

View attachment 739989

(He was also the second worst oiler in terms of goals against per 60 mins on the PK, so...)

EDIT: McDavid was actually shockingly good in that respect. In over 100 mins on the PK, his GA/60 of 5.16 was second best among Edmonton's regulars on the PK (guys with 50+ PK mins). Draisaitl's GA/60 was 15.75 in 53 min

 

[Fitzy]

Kreider only averages about 50 points a season, over his last 6, which should be considered his prime years. If he drops off even 5-10 points he becomes almost a 40 point scorer, I don't think the Rangers will want a 40-45 point scorer at 6.5M. Especially if he is barely doing anything at ES. His Mod-NTC is only 15 teams also, Rangers should have no problem moving him if need be.

If assists were given for screens, Kreider would probably have another 100+ points in his career.

 

[Machinehead]

(He was also the second worst oiler in terms of goals against per 60 mins on the PK, so...)

EDIT: McDavid was actually shockingly good in that respect. In over 100 mins on the PK, his GA/60 of 5.16 was second best among Edmonton's regulars on the PK (guys with 50+ PK mins). Draisaitl's GA/60 was 15.75 in 53 min

People don't really grasp, imo, how much better McDavid is than Draisaitl.

Saying McDavid and Draisaitl are the two best players in the world is like saying Jupiter and the sun are the two biggest objects in the solar system.

Even if it's true, it feels disingenuous.

 

[Machinehead]

With Bergeron retired, McDavid is probably the best defensive center in the league.

Nobody seems to notice it for a few reasons:

1) He puts up 150+ points

2) Voter fatigue

3) Centers suck at defense now and there's like five wingers who should win the Selke before any center

Still, McDavid is elite at defense too. He's probably a top 5 player all-time.

 

[Machinehead]

Next summer should be more fun with more cap and Trouba and Kreider with less trade protection.

This is another pairing that's technically valid but smells like gas station sushi.

I would add to move Trouba.

If I had to choose between Kreider and Shesterkin's raise, I let Shesterkin walk.

 

[TominNC]

Preseason can't get here soon enough so we can obsess over actual events and not speculation.

 

[Fitzy]

This is another pairing that's technically valid but smells like gas station sushi.

I would add to move Trouba.

If I had to choose between Kreider and Shesterkin's raise, I let Shesterkin walk.

I think Trouba will be a Gomez situation where we end up getting more back for him than we expected. His off paper assets are still coveted by many GMs.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

It's never really talked about.

If you are set with Panarin and Krieder at LW, and the consensus 1ov is a strict LW.

Why wasn't the pick traded? They was plenty of interest.

The Panarin/Trouba spending spree and the Krieder resigning turned the rebuild into a reload situation.

Are we really going to act like trading that pick was even a remote possibility? The first time the Rangers would be picking first overall in the modern draft era and a prospect who at the time was viewed as a slam dunk 1st overall who would be on the Jack Hughes level of player if not better.

You can look back now in 2023 with hindsight but the fact of the matter is at the time if there was even a faint whisper of the Rangers considering exploring trading that pick the fanbase would've literally melted down.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

If assists were given for screens, Kreider would probably have another 100+ points in his career.

Maybe. But they aren’t. And he’s great on the PP and standing in front of the net, I won’t deny that. I’m worried about his ES play. Especially if he’s continuously used on the top 2 lines.

 

[NYR Viper]

Maybe. But they aren’t. And he’s great on the PP and standing in front of the net, I won’t deny that. I’m worried about his ES play. Especially if he’s continuously used on the top 2 lines.

The ES time is pretty even for the top-3 lines. And honestly, while his point totals don't look off the chart at 5v5, his actual effect when he is on the ice is.

 

[Fitzy]

Like- points aren't a metric of contribution that are without problems. There are many cases when a secondary (sometimes even a primary) assist contributed less in terms of actually making the goal come to pass than a well timed screen, which yields no reward.

If it was up to me, secondary assists would be awarded by a booth referee.

 

[mas0764]

This is another pairing that's technically valid but smells like gas station sushi.

I would add to move Trouba.

If I had to choose between Kreider and Shesterkin's raise, I let Shesterkin walk.

Me too, to both of your latter statements, but I don't think we'll have to add to move Trouba.

In fact I bet we can get a first or at least a second for him. NHL GMs are dumb and pay for size, and the name.

He's not a very good player at this point. He's ok. He's not a top pair caliber guy, and for the first half of last year he wasn't even a good second pair guy. Maybe he was injured. Yet, he's a name and he can command a return. I bet a second if not a first, he could bring back, if the cap rises enough to allow a decent amount of suitors.

Shesterkin is actually a positive presence, unlike Trouba, but tell me what I can get for him besides cap space and I'd definitely consider it.

Are we really going to act like trading that pick was even a remote possibility? The first time the Rangers would be picking first overall in the modern draft era and a prospect who at the time was viewed as a slam dunk 1st overall who would be on the Jack Hughes level of player if not better.

You can look back now in 2023 with hindsight but the fact of the matter is at the time if there was even a faint whisper of the Rangers considering exploring trading that pick the fanbase would've literally melted down.

I do seem to recall there was talk about moving 1OA to the Senators for 3 and 5?

Which..... Stutzle and Drysdale.... would have been nice.

 

[effen]

They're keeping Trouba for the life of his contract unless he wants out. He's what they want as a Ranger.

In the event he gets traded it's going to be for someone who echoes what he brings which means half the fanbase will piss on that guy too. Pretty much no chance he goes for futures. Might as well keep him.

I do seem to recall there was talk about moving 1OA to the Senators for 3 and 5?

Which..... Stutzle and Drysdale.... would have been nice.

Only talk from the Rangers side. Ottawa was never doing that. Sanderson and not Drysdale btw.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Are we really going to act like trading that pick was even a remote possibility? The first time the Rangers would be picking first overall in the modern draft era and a prospect who at the time was viewed as a slam dunk 1st overall who would be on the Jack Hughes level of player if not better.

You can look back now in 2023 with hindsight but the fact of the matter is at the time if there was even a faint whisper of the Rangers considering exploring trading that pick the fanbase would've literally melted down.

Agreed. Drafting Lafrenière was never the problem. It's what happened afterwards that's the real issue.

 

[B17 Apricots]

KHL regular season action starts tomorrow.

Top Rookies for the new season

KHL.ru’s Anton Vasyatin talks about the top choices for the coveted Rookie of the Year award. The battle for the prize of the best rookie in the KHL traditionally is a hot one. In the upcoming season, it’s unlikely that anything will change, as the ...

en.khl.ru

Rookies to watch out for

 

[Fitzy]

If NYR knew how good Fox was going to be, they would not have traded for Trouba. Even when we traded for him the book was that he might become a solid #3- literally no one on here was predicting perennial Norris candidate.

At the bare minimum I hope Laviolette tries new combinations, because Miller-Trouba was a real problem last season.