Roster Building Thread: Part VII (2023-24)

[Fitzy]

Well the idea is you give him term to keep the cap hit lower. Meaning Vince would consider 8x4 over 5x5 so we mortgage cap in the future for cap now.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

If Cuylle had put up 39 points in the NHL last year (d+3 season), he'd be a stud. Laf does it at the same age and he's terrible. HF in a nutshell.

joke, right?

 

[GAGLine]

joke, right?

I wish it was.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I wish it was.

Well?Both D+3... what's the GLARING difference....?

 

[Avery16]

Right under our noses

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Rangers News & Rumors: Lindgren, Lafrenière & PTO Targets - The Hockey Writers New York Rangers Latest News, Analysis & More

The New York Rangers are looking to sign Ryan Lindgren to a long-term deal, while things remain quiet with Alexis Lafreniène.

thehockeywriters.com

Rumor: Rangers want to sign Lindgren to 7 or 8 year deal. Depending on the cost, would be a risk due to him always playing hurt or until he can’t skate anymore up the ice

Lindgren to a 7-8 year deal will be worse than the Girardi deal

 

[bernmeister]

I don’t think Jones is the right D parter for Schneider and I don’t think he has anywhere to go on this roster

i've been negative on zj since last yr

 

[GAGLine]

Well?Both D+3... what's the GLARING difference....?

I'm thinking you may have misunderstood my original post. That, or I'm misunderstanding what you are asking.

I was trying to point out the hypocrisy that is so often evident on HF (though certainly not limited to HF). If Cuylle had played in the NHL last season and had the same exact production as Laf, the narrative for Cuylle would be much more positive than it has for been Laf.

Yes, expectations play into those opinions, but that shouldn't result in a complete lack of objectivity. Objectively, 39 points in 39 points, regardless of where each player was drafted.

 

[bhamill]

So you can say he hasn't lived up to expectations. That doesn't make him a bad player.

EXACTLY.

 

[Synergy27]

Lindgren to a 7-8 year deal will be worse than the Girardi deal

Girardi’s big deal ended when he was 36 years old. That’s a big difference than 33 years old for me, especially for a guy like Lindgren who is a heck of a lot more mobile that Girardi ever was.

If Lindgren is looking for security and will take a low cap hit on a long term deal I’d be all over it. Love the guy.

I'm thinking you may have misunderstood my original post. That, or I'm misunderstanding what you are asking.

I was trying to point out the hypocrisy that is so often evident on HF (though certainly not limited to HF). If Cuylle had played in the NHL last season and had the same exact production as Laf, the narrative for Cuylle would be much more positive than it has for been Laf.

Yes, expectations play into those opinions, but that shouldn't result in a complete lack of objectivity. Objectively, 39 points in 39 points, regardless of where each player was drafted.

Yeah, no. The kid was a first overall pick FFS. You wouldn’t be seeing this much hand wringing if he was the fifth overall pick even. HE WAS THE FIRST OVERALL PICK AND TOUTED AS A STEP BELOW GENERATIONAL.

Objectivity can get f***ed.

 

[bhamill]

Yeah, no. The kid was a first overall pick FFS. You wouldn’t be seeing this much hand wringing if he was the fifth overall pick even. HE WAS THE FIRST OVERALL PICK AND TOUTED AS A STEP BELOW GENERATIONAL.

Objectivity can get f***ed.

What you are saying only supports him being a disappointment for his draft spot. It doesn’t make him a bad player. Doesn’t make him any lesser than Cuylle would be if he had done what Laf has. Cuylle would just be more bang for the draft buck.

 

[UnSandvich]

Girardi’s big deal ended when he was 36 years old. That’s a big difference than 33 years old for me, especially for a guy like Lindgren who is a heck of a lot more mobile that Girardi ever was.

If Lindgren is looking for security and will take a low cap hit on a long term deal I’d be all over it. Love the guy.


Yeah, no. The kid was a first overall pick FFS. You wouldn’t be seeing this much hand wringing if he was the fifth overall pick even. HE WAS THE FIRST OVERALL PICK AND TOUTED AS A STEP BELOW GENERATIONAL.

Objectivity can get f***ed.

Sounds like a you problem tbh.

 

[kovazub94]

I'm thinking you may have misunderstood my original post. That, or I'm misunderstanding what you are asking.

I was trying to point out the hypocrisy that is so often evident on HF (though certainly not limited to HF). If Cuylle had played in the NHL last season and had the same exact production as Laf, the narrative for Cuylle would be much more positive than it has for been Laf.

Yes, expectations play into those opinions, but that shouldn't result in a complete lack of objectivity. Objectively, 39 points in 39 points, regardless of where each player was drafted.

Your point about hypocrisy of the board is valid but I think you picked the wrong illustration for it. Fans objectively allowed to have higher expectations for 1OA over a 2nd round pick.

 

[TGWL]

So you can say he hasn't lived up to expectations. That doesn't make him a bad player.

But he has been a bad player, no? The only thing saving him is the even strength production stats. Beyond that, he's been a very bad player on the rink. I think there's a very big difference in saying the kid is a bust and it's just not going to work here and maybe it becomes time to move on if things don't improve after this season. Whether it's because the organization can't wait anymore or it's because the organization feels they owe it to a young kid to put him in a position to have a real good career. He hasn't been able to adapt to the right side here. The one thing he's been good at doing is getting himself in position for some near empty-net tip ins and deflections in front of the net.

Cuylle coming in and putting up 39 points while playing a tough forechecking game is a lot different than Laf not moving his feet and putting up 39 points. I think we can all acknowledge Lafreniere is more skilled than Cuylle.

 

[kovazub94]

Huberdeau didn't become a point per game player until age 25.

At age 21, Huberdeau had 42 ES points to Lafreniere's 35 while averaging a minute and a half more per game.

There's still a flicker of hope here.

I’d give it a like if not for the way you phrased the last sentence. There’s a lot more than just a “flicker” remaining there.

 

[GAGLine]

But he has been a bad player, no? The only thing saving him is the even strength production stats. Beyond that, he's been a very bad player on the rink.

He doesn't play on the PK and he hasn't gotten much opportunity on the PP. What do you expect?

He hasn't been a bad player. He has only been bad in relation to your expectations of him. It's not the same thing.

Your point about hypocrisy of the board is valid but I think you picked the wrong illustration for it. Fans objectively allowed to have higher expectations for 1OA over a 2nd round pick.

I don't think I did. Of course fans have higher expectations for Laf than they do for Cuylle, but if both players produce the same, they can't say one player is good and the other is bad.

 

[bhamill]

But he has been a bad player, no? The only thing saving him is the even strength production stats. Beyond that, he's been a very bad player on the rink. I think there's a very big difference is saying the kid is a bust and it's just not going to work here and maybe it becomes time to move on if things don't improve after this season. Whether it's because the organization can't wait anymore or it's because the organization feels they owe it to a young kid to put him in a position to have a real good career. He hasn't been able to adapt to the right side here. The one thing he's been good at doing is getting himself in position for some near empty-net tip ins and deflections in front of the net.

Cuylle coming in and putting up 39 points while playing a tough forechecking game is a lot different than Laf not moving his feet and putting up 39 points. I think we can all acknowledge Lafreniere is more skilled than Cuylle.

No. He hasn't been a bad player. Hes been a borderline 3rd/2nd line player... at 21.
Why are you hypothesizing taking away 5v5 points? And a tough forechecking game? Laf was our second most physical foreward, 141 hits, while getting 0.5 ppg, mostly at 5v5 where we are most in need of scoring...
Again, why are you looking to discount 5v5 scoring? It's a bizarre tact...

He doesn't play on the PK and he hasn't gotten much opportunity on the PP. What do you expect?

He hasn't been a bad player. He has only been bad in relation to your expectations of him. It's not the same thing.


I don't think I did. Of course fans have higher expectations for Laf than they do for Cuylle, but if both players produce the same, they can't say one player is good and the other is bad.

I'm amazed that these points are confusing to anyone.

 

[kovazub94]

I don't think I did. Of course fans have higher expectations for Laf than they do for Cuylle, but if both players produce the same, they can't say one player is good and the other is bad.

Maybe it was posted by someone on my ignore list but I haven’t seen a direct comparison between these two or otherwise connected claims that would call Lafreniere “bad” and Cuylle “good”. And if such claims exist - I’m glad of missing such nonsense. Everything else would be based with their drafting positions in mind, which as I think in this case is fine.

P.S. Personally I think a lot of folks around here will be eating their crow dinners soon. Half of them were likely much higher on Lafreniere following his D+2 season. I think his last off-season preparation didn’t put him in the best position to succeed and the whole season became tainted by it. It’s on him but then (1] being just one point shy of hitting 40 (largely ES) points is still impressive (especially with this angle) and (2) hopefully he learned his lesson about importance of offseason.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'd be game to give Lindgren a 7 year deal if it kept the cap hit below $4m.

 

[Machinehead]

Objectivity can get f***ed.

That is certainly a way of looking at things.

 

[MrAlmost]

7x4 for Lindgren would be a smart move. Keep the cap hit lower. At that number even if we find 2 better LHD and Lindgren finds himself as the bottom pairing #5 guy it still is pretty good. It would be smart, so I know the Rangers wont do it.

 

[kovazub94]

Only Lou L would give Lindgren 7-8 year deal. Everything in his case points to 3-4 year deals. Want to reduce AAV? Extend to 5-6. Staple did make a proper observation that it only the Rangers that get extra value from lFox partner” factor so there’s no need to overpay for it - it would be essentially like bidding against yourself.

Now I have no idea what’s the market price for Lindgren would be next year.

 

[haohmaru]

I’d give it a like if not for the way you phrased the last sentence. There’s a lot more than just a “flicker” remaining there.

Sarcasm doesn’t convey well on message boards…

 

[TGWL]

He doesn't play on the PK and he hasn't gotten much opportunity on the PP. What do you expect?

He hasn't been a bad player. He has only been bad in relation to your expectations of him. It's not the same thing.


I don't think I did. Of course fans have higher expectations for Laf than they do for Cuylle, but if both players produce the same, they can't say one player is good and the other is bad.

I expect him to play hockey. This isn't about what point total he reaches at the end of the season. He's been very bad on the rink and it's not just expectations for a 1st overall pick. We haven't seen enough from Cuylle, but if he came in and played like Laf, he'd be called bad a bad player producing at a 3rd line rate.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Only Lou L would give Lindgren 7-8 year deal. Everything in his case points to 3-4 year deals. Want to reduce AAV? Extend to 5-6. Staple did make a proper observation that it only the Rangers that get extra value from lFox partner” factor so there’s no need to overpay for it - it would be essentially like bidding against yourself.

Now I have no idea what’s the market price for Lindgren would be next year.

Wouldn’t extending a deal increase the aav since it’s more ufa years?