Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXIX - Clever Title

[SA16]

In terms of just getting money off the books Anisimov for DeAngelo is fine if there are truly no better offers but I don't what people expect out of him. He's terrible on faceoffs and the narrative has been that we need to be better at them. He can't even get into the regular lineup in Ottawa. He's had awful defensive numbers the last several years and he doesn't provide too much offense anymore. He has very few redeeming factors at this point. Stepan would be much better in that he can actually contribute a bit and play solid defense but he makes more money and isn't really anything special now either.

 

[TominNC]

In terms of just getting money off the books Anisimov for DeAngelo is fine if there are truly no better offers but I don't what people expect out of him. He's terrible on faceoffs and the narrative has been that we need to be better at them. He can't even get into the regular lineup in Ottawa. He's had awful defensive numbers the last several years and he doesn't provide too much offense anymore. He has very few redeeming factors at this point.

But he used to play for the Rangers and that seems to be enough for some people.

 

[Kendo]

If one was to experiment, I would place Fox on the point, Panarin on the left wall, Buchnevich on the right and both Kreider and Lemieux in front of the net. Of course I have no idea who would win the face off with such an alignment

PP1 looked SO MUCH better with Bread on the left half-wall last year. It just looks super awkward with Bread on the right half wall and Mika on the left.

 

[Ruggs225]

Like I said, the missing ingredient is DeAngelo. The PP looked much better with him running it. Now I get that ship has sailed. Two of the issues that my untrained eye sees is with Fox running it, there are absolutely no shots from the point. Fox himself would rather deke and pass or use his wrister. The latter would be fine if there were several players in front of the net hunting for rebounds. But there are not. Which leads to the second point of sometimes, instead of just making a rush, it would serve to get the puck deep and then outnumber the defenders in retrieving it.

If one was to experiment, I would place Fox on the point, Panarin on the left wall, Buchnevich on the right and both Kreider and Lemieux in front of the net. Of course I have no idea who would win the face off with such an alignment

i agree with al except lemmy on the PP. he has stone hands.
I would tell kakko to get in front and use his big body. I think he could handle it.

 

[Kendo]

Just using the last game as a reference, we saw Lafreniere with some great passes that weren't buried, a Kakko shot that was met with a tremendous save, Lafreniere bird-dogging Dobson, Shesterkin keeping us tied, etc.

Yeah, adding to the stat line is desired. Winning is obviously desired. But I can't say I came away with concerns about the future.

To your point, I tended to think about how much better this team would be if Chytil were in the lineup and continuing to stake his claim for a top six role, and if Zibanaejad were firing on cylinders.

There were positives in a game in which we were shut out. No doubt. Even Gauthier had some good shifts! (Interesting that he showed more when he ended up on the left side of the ice...)

If Mika had what is ultimately his career year last year, and just took a modest step back (instead of something being terribly amiss), and if Chytil wasn't injured, we'd have 4 more points on the season and be firmly in that race for top 4 in the division.

I'm not "concerned for the future," per se, but we do need to solve our center issue over the next season and a half. We should be blasting open our window in 2023. A lot of things would need to break right for Mika and Chytil to be the 1-2 punch we need as contenders by that time.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

You guys and your Strome hate, its irrational but i admire your commitment to sticking to it and continuing your false narrative. Don't stop never stopping!!

 

[IDvsEGO]

You guys and your Strome hate, its irrational but i admire your commitment to sticking to it and continuing your false narrative. Don't stop never stopping!!

I don’t get how you say disliking Strome is irrational, maybe it’s cherry picking data, but it’s definitely not without some hard data to back it up.

 

[Sayba]

Ok. So what? They also drafted Kakko, Lafreniere, Schnieder, Miller, Chytil, Lundqvist & Kravstov.

Find me a team that has never drafted a first round bust. The next one you name will be the first one in history.

And we are not discussing whether or not he should or should not have been drafted. At last check, we were discussing on what happened after he was drafted.

I've just been through so many as a Rangers fan... It's tough when you miss that bad on a top 10 pick.

Look at Sam Bennett, certainly not hitting based on his draft position but he is a serviceable player. Lias I don't believe will even be that.

 

[kovazub94]

It may not be the same, but the point is that he was seen as completely NHL ready, and has now complained about how us creativity is being stripped away. That’s ALARMING.

Are any of those players named Lafreniere or Kakko? No? So who cares. This isn’t a vacuum. Just because these guys had slow starts in their careers doesn’t mean that Laf and Kakko are in the clear. Different environments, different coaching, he’ll different eras for some of the people you mentioned. But also why the f*** would you mention Dylan Cozens, who didn’t have the draft pedigree of ANY of those players.


Chytils highest point total in his career so far is 23 so let’s hold off on the parade. Buch played for 2 years before Quinn, and currently he hasn’t had a none empty net goal since game 2, which is the only game he’s scored in (cue the wahh but Zib isn’t playing well excuse I know you’ll make) Again put the parade on hold. While Kakko is playing better, he did so since early in the season and was shuffled around the line up still. And it still has not translated on the score sheet.


Look, we all know you are the resident Quinn Webster here but the facts are the facts. Two years in a row two can’t miss prospects are not living up to their potential. When one of these guys starts to put it together under Quinn I’ll gladly eat all the crow, you can ask @RGY about how I keep my promises. But right now I’m only being proven right as every game goes by.

YOU are getting it completely backwards.

First the question being asked (by alarmists) should we be concerned about Kakko and Lafreniere AT THIS POINT? And the answer is no with an example of NHL HOFs who also had slow starts. Development is not a straight line and not one individual developmental trajectory is the same as the other, especially if you break it down into 11 game intervals (ridiculous) even if you forget special circumstances in place right now.

Then as Quinn's hater you pick and choose what player to consider as developed or developing under him. Buchnevich had pretty much the same struggles he had with AV as early on with Quinn. Chytil showed steady progression and similar to Buch - showed a significant leap in his development this year. Kakko has been playing better in his second season than he was in his first. 3 players in different stages of their careers playing better than previously. Everything else is inability of fans who want instant gratification to stay patient through the process.

 

[kovazub94]

"Young stud wingers struggle on team with worst center depth in the league. News at 11."

There's blame to be shared for some of the struggles, but with Mika currently being a zombie, we don't have a 1st OR 2nd line caliber center on this roster. I always figured this would be addressed after the expansion draft, but no one could have guessed it would be going *this* poorly this year.

And Chytil is injured. So bitching and moaning about Strome and Howden is only that - bitching and moaning.

 

[Cmox]

Great, Jagr had better possession metrics with Gomez than he did with Nylander

And his numbers took a 42% hit from 123 With Nylander to 71 with Scotty G

I'd prefer the Jagr/Nylander pair over Jagr/Gomez every daay of the week and twice on Sunday and it's reaally not close at all.

He probably did everything is his power to keep the puck on his stick instead of passing it to Gomez.

 

[kovazub94]

Jagr had over $10m contract for multiple years waiting for him in Russia. He knew about a performance clause that would trigger another year. I think he was happy that it wasn't triggered and I will leave it at that.

 

[Off Sides]

I don't really have any problem being patient with the youth, yet I also know the longer it takes for them to reach their primes the less prime will be left from the older and more expensive vets, who will still be under contract.

I think one of the Rangers bigger struggles coming up over these next years is going to be how do they overlap the primes of both the current 19-20-21 year olds and those who are currently 27-28-29. And if they can not, how do they get out of some of the contracts that will still be hanging around with minimal cap or asset damage.

 

[aufheben]

w/r/t the PP:

Shot location chart (Power Play Shot attempts relative to league average)

2019-20
PP Sh%: 15.34 (7th)

2020-21
PP Sh%: 7.89 (26th)

 

[Synergy27]

My point is to not compare them. Yakupov scored 31 points in 48 games his rookie year—very good—now he’s not even playing in the NHL; Nuge should have won the Calder Trophy his rookie year.

Rookie seasons don’t define careers.

Yeah I get it and agree that rookie seasons do not define careers.

But how many elite players in the league do absolutely nothing in their rookie seasons? Particularly elite players that were chosen as such (not late round guys that far exceeded expectations). Even those guys that turned out to be not very special (Yak, RNH, etc.) still had decent to very good rookie years.

Kakko was literally in the conversation for worst player in the league last year. He is just now showing flashes of being good - not great. Maybe he’s on a good trajectory. Maybe RNH and Yak were better suited to succeed in the NHL right away because they played junior in NA.

Conversely, maybe Kakko is just not that good, or was really set back by being brought over too soon. Maybe he’s about to become a PPG force. I don’t know.

My only point is that, given the early returns, that entire range of outcomes is unfortunately still on the table. It is rational to be concerned about the bad tail of the outcome distribution coming to fruition. If these kids came in an dominated right away, or at least produced really well, I’d feel a lot more comfortable shifting that potential range of outcomes to an area that doesn’t include a worst case scenario.

All that said, maybe I’m just an irredeemable pessimist and unable to see what seems to be so obvious to many of the rest of you.

I’m open to all of these possibilities.

 

[NYR3]

Speaking of Jagr, it's crazy to think how many goals he would have if he didn't go to the KHL for 3 seasons. Would probably be close to Gretzky

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Speaking of Jagr, it's crazy to think how many goals he would have if he didn't go to the KHL for 3 seasons. Would probably be close to Gretzky

Ovechkin missed 129 games due to lockouts and a pandemic. Based on career average he missed out on 79 goals. That would take him to 790, just 104 goals behind Gretzky at age 35. He would only need 105 goals to pass Gretzky had he not missed any games. Crazy!

Jagr missed 396 games due to lockouts until he left the NHL in 2018. That would result in 438 points based on career average, taking him to 2359.

The Jagr one is a bit flawed though as he has stated in interviews that playing in the KHL kept him healthy and able to play longer. But it's still fun to talk about.

 

[TheDirtyH]

w/r/t the PP:

Shot location chart (Power Play Shot attempts relative to league average)

2019-20
PP Sh%: 15.34 (7th)


2020-21
PP Sh%: 7.89 (26th)

Looks like a lot more perimeter volume and a lot fewer attempts in the crease.

 

[NYR3]

Ovechkin missed 129 games due to lockouts and a pandemic. Based on career average he missed out on 79 goals. That would take him to 790, just 104 goals behind Gretzky at age 35. He would only need 105 goals to pass Gretzky had he not missed any games. Crazy!

Jagr missed 396 games due to lockouts until he left the NHL in 2018. That would result in 438 points based on career average, taking him to 2359.

The Jagr one is a bit flawed though as he has stated in interviews that playing in the KHL kept him healthy and able to play longer. But it's still fun to talk about.

Yeah, both guys could have been right behind Gretzky

 

[True Blue]

I've just been through so many as a Rangers fan... It's tough when you miss that bad on a top 10 pick.

Look at Sam Bennett, certainly not hitting based on his draft position but he is a serviceable player. Lias I don't believe will even be that.

So is the complaint that there appears to be a bust among the last 8 first round picks that they had?

They missed on Lias. They hit on trading up for Miller. They hit on Chytil. Lots more good than bad.

 

[mike14]

He probably did everything is his power to keep the puck on his stick instead of passing it to Gomez.

That's pretty much exactly what happened, and why he made the quote about liking playing with Dubinsky so much. Jagr wanted the puck on his stick, but so did Gomez so it didn't work. Dubinsky was a rookie and more than happy to just give the puck to Jagr and then head to the net

 

[aufheben]

Looks like a lot more perimeter volume and a lot fewer attempts in the crease.

Eh, my biggest takeaway is they’re shooting % is half of what it was last year. Applies to the PK as well. There might be improvements in goals for/against over the season. MoneyPuck also has their PP xG % ranked 6th FWIW. We’ll see I guess.

Special teams expected goals rates:

2020-21

 

[mike14]

Ovechkin missed 129 games due to lockouts and a pandemic. Based on career average he missed out on 79 goals. That would take him to 790, just 104 goals behind Gretzky at age 35. He would only need 105 goals to pass Gretzky had he not missed any games. Crazy!

Jagr missed 396 games due to lockouts until he left the NHL in 2018. That would result in 438 points based on career average, taking him to 2359.

The Jagr one is a bit flawed though as he has stated in interviews that playing in the KHL kept him healthy and able to play longer. But it's still fun to talk about.

You'd need to give Gretzky another ~30 goals in this (based on career avg) for the 94-95 season

 

[Fitzy]

So is the complaint that there appears to be a bust among the last 8 first round picks that they had?

They missed on Lias. They hit on trading up for Miller. They hit on Chytil. Lots more good than bad.

And we got a #1 defenseman out of two second round picks just because he wanted to play here.

Add that to Kevin Hayes and Tim Erixon on the list of free goodies just for being the NY Rangers.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Eh, my biggest takeaway is they’re shooting % is half of what it was last year. Applies to the PK as well. There might be improvements in goals for/against over the season.

Special teams expected goals rates:

2020-21

what's Zibanejad's Sh% on the season, 1.00%?