Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXIX - Clever Title

[TheBloodyNine]

i think the fact that they are 18 and 19 yrs old has a lot more to do with it than if they played college.

Not alot of 18 and 19 yr olds light the nhl up. And again kakko still has basically the same amount of points compared to hughes and dach in his draft class. Nobody has done much of note after where kravy was drafted and laf is 18, had a short camp, no hockey for 10 months, limited hands on coach interaction and no exhibition games. Hardly normal circumstances.

oh and we are playing in the hardest division against some of the best defensive teams. Which again doesnt make life easy for the kids.

and this is from someone who probably thinks quinn should probably get canned at the end of the year.

kakko is playing better with each game. Laf just needs to adjust to the nhl.

Not a lot do, because not a lot are playing there at that age. If you're playing there at that age, there's a reason. Both of these guys came in as 100% NHL ready and can't miss. Every pundit pegged Laf for a 60 point equivalent season - again, he's 19 so he was seen as even more ready. Kakko was already playing against men. Guys of their pedigree should be showing more than they are right now - any one saying anything else is making excuses at this point and trying to make it seem like its not as bad as it is. Yeah, Kaapo has looked better but he's still one bad shift away from riding shotgun with Blackwell and Rooney. Laf looks like he has absolutely zero confidence out there. This coach can't translate his message to kids who didn't play college, that's the trend and the common denominator here. It's two of these types of prospects in a row right now.

 

[Fitzy]

Goodness....a lot of ignorance here.

I guess we are going to force that card down people’s throats...the one where we must saddle Panarin with Strome because he has had some of his best seasons with him on his line. Lets not look at it as the other way around. And lets continue to lean on that as Strome CONTINUES to be abysmal in every area and corner of the ice. There is nothing heavy about the above accusations. He has been a turnover machine. So many plays have died on his stick, at both ends of the ice. So many whiffs. So much carelessness. He is such a passive, nothing player.

Man, I wish he had some Dubinsky in him — at least then he would be more engaged every shift. Dubinsky was able to go to the dirty areas and win puck battles. He actually looked like he had a pulse out there. Dubisnky played hard on both sides of the puck. He fought for every inch. When Panarin isnt able to drag Strome’s lifeless body around the ice, the guy is straight up a cone. He doesnt drive possession. He doesnt drive the play. He is irresponsible at both ends of the ice. He belongs on the 3rd line.

I will drop this image all day long...

View attachment 394682

He’s lucky he hasn’t been away from Panarin this year because his play has warranted 3rd/4th line minutes.

Hearing a lot of platitudes about 'going to the dirty areas' and not much to argue with the fact that Panarin has put up the best numbers of his career while playing with Ryan Strome. Even starting from the assumption (Which in your case is simply taken as definitive fact) that Strome isn't a good player, it's a bit silly to suggest that somehow bringing in someone better would make Panarin even more unbelievable.

He scored 70-85 points for years playing with much better centers than Ryan Strome. Now he's here and scoring at 110 point a season base consistently, and you assume he's capable of McDavid numbers with a better center? It's absurd.

 

[RGY]

Hearing a lot of platitudes about 'going to the dirty areas' and not much to argue with the fact that Panarin has put up the best numbers of his career while playing with Ryan Strome. Even starting from the assumption (Which in your case is simply taken as definitive fact) that Strome isn't a good player, it's a bit silly to suggest that somehow bringing in someone better would make Panarin even more unbelievable.

He scored 70-85 points for years playing with much better centers than Ryan Strome. Now he's here and scoring at 110 point a season base consistently, and you assume he's capable of McDavid numbers with a better center? It's absurd.

Could it be that Panarin is right in the prime of his career? Could it be that he elevated his game last year playing in NY? I guess we will push those theories aside, along with others.

I am uncertain what a better center would look like next to Panarin. Probably one that can be effective on both sides of the puck. Probably one that can drive up longer possession/zone times when they are not turning over pucks with awful passes or isn’t just gliding by the play getting turned around over and over again. Someone who can win faceoffs more effectively thus leading to more time with the puck meaning more opportunity for Panarin, even if he doesnt score.

But hey lets just be content with Ryan Strome as our 2C despite all the inadequacies we are aware, and there are many in his game, because we just think we cant do better, or wont do better with a more competent center. I guess thats more sensible.

 

[pld459666]

Goodness....a lot of ignorance here.

I guess we are going to force that card down people’s throats...the one where we must saddle Panarin with Strome because he has had some of his best seasons with him on his line. Lets not look at it as the other way around. And lets continue to lean on that as Strome CONTINUES to be abysmal in every area and corner of the ice. There is nothing heavy about the above accusations. He has been a turnover machine. So many plays have died on his stick, at both ends of the ice. So many whiffs. So much carelessness. He is such a passive, nothing player.

Man, I wish he had some Dubinsky in him — at least then he would be more engaged every shift. Dubinsky was able to go to the dirty areas and win puck battles. He actually looked like he had a pulse out there. Dubisnky played hard on both sides of the puck. He fought for every inch. When Panarin isnt able to drag Strome’s lifeless body around the ice, the guy is straight up a cone. He doesnt drive possession. He doesnt drive the play. He is irresponsible at both ends of the ice. He belongs on the 3rd line.

I will drop this image all day long...

View attachment 394682

He’s lucky he hasn’t been away from Panarin this year because his play has warranted 3rd/4th line minutes.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Strome doesn't benefit from Panarin.

The argument that is being made that you have not addressed is that we KNOW Panarin works very well with Strome.

What we DON'T KNOW and what you are assuming is that Panarin will work better with a better center and the Jagr comparison is appropriate.

Is it possible, absolutely. But to pan it as fact is misleading and speculative at best

 

[pld459666]

Ultimately, Panarin is not being held back by Strome.

We are getting superstar production from our superstar winger being paid superstar money.

I do not think we are going to see some astronomical jump in production even if Eichel/Barkov were his center

 

[SA16]

Goodness. A lot of heavy assumptions here. Panarin has been his most productive ever in his career since coming here. A lot of that time has been playing with Strome. So forgive me for being skeptical that it’s somehow Stromes fault for Panarin not instantly doubling his typical point production here.

A better center isn’t necessarily a compatible center. There’s a reason why Jagr didn’t work well with either Gomez or Drury, but he did with rookie Brandon Dubinsky.

I remember similar suggestions that Jagr would somehow get better playing with a better center than Nylander. Look how that turned out. Like it or not, there’s chemistry

I have posted this before. The Jagr comments are not true. In 07-08 Jagr/Gomez played 514 minutes together with a 62.5 CF%, 61.8 GF%, and 60.7 xG%. It was one of the best lines in the league.

For the sake of comparison zero forwards had a CF% that high last year and two had an xG% that high (Pacioretty/Stone line).

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Goodness....a lot of ignorance here.

I guess we are going to force that card down people’s throats...the one where we must saddle Panarin with Strome because he has had some of his best seasons with him on his line. Lets not look at it as the other way around. And lets continue to lean on that as Strome CONTINUES to be abysmal in every area and corner of the ice. There is nothing heavy about the above accusations. He has been a turnover machine. So many plays have died on his stick, at both ends of the ice. So many whiffs. So much carelessness. He is such a passive, nothing player.

Man, I wish he had some Dubinsky in him — at least then he would be more engaged every shift. Dubinsky was able to go to the dirty areas and win puck battles. He actually looked like he had a pulse out there. Dubisnky played hard on both sides of the puck. He fought for every inch. When Panarin isnt able to drag Strome’s lifeless body around the ice, the guy is straight up a cone. He doesnt drive possession. He doesnt drive the play. He is irresponsible at both ends of the ice. He belongs on the 3rd line.

I will drop this image all day long...

View attachment 394682

He’s lucky he hasn’t been away from Panarin this year because his play has warranted 3rd/4th line minutes.

What are Panarin's numbers away from Strome?

 

[DutchShamrock]

But hey lets just be content with Ryan Strome as our 2C despite all the inadequacies we are aware, and there are many in his game, because we just think we cant do better, or wont do better with a more competent center. I guess thats more sensible.

Where is all that cap for an upgrade? Where are the opportunities to acquire a center at a price we are comfortable with?

I can understand the dislike for Strome or the rationale that he is replacement level. But now the anti-Strome argument is we can't be content with what he is providing? Sorry, it's far down the list of priorities. I'm pretty damn content with what both do together, especially with the situation on the 3rd pair d. The lack of viable NHL centers on this team with injuries and lingering issues. I would rather patch the holes in the ship before I get a bigger cannon. If Panarin is that unhappy, he can walk when his contract expires.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Where is all that cap for an upgrade? Where are the opportunities to acquire a center at a price we are comfortable with?

I can understand the dislike for Strome or the rationale that he is replacement level. But now the anti-Strome argument is we can't be content with what he is providing? Sorry, it's far down the list of priorities. I'm pretty damn content with what both do together, especially with the situation on the 3rd pair d. The lack of viable NHL centers on this team with injuries and lingering issues. I would rather patch the holes in the ship before I get a bigger cannon. If Panarin is that unhappy, he can walk when his contract expires.

And Buffalo isn’t trading eichel till after the season. They wanna see if anything works this season anyway.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I'm not a Strome guy and I think he's propped up by Panarin but we're not really in the place to be bitching about him right now when Chytil is injured and Mika has been awful.

Much bigger fish to fry

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm not a Strome guy and I think he's propped up by Panarin but we're not really in the place to be bitching about him right now when Chytil is injured and Mika has been awful.

Much bigger fish to fry

With the amount of dead cap space this year, we should all be counting our blessings that our #2C is someone like Strome.

 

[IDvsEGO]

What are Panarin's numbers away from Strome?

I don’t have numbers off hand but I remember seeing that panarin w Mika were above panarin w Strome.

I also remember seeing that given a crazy small sample size last season chytil + panarin was also better than panarin + Strome.

 

[True Blue]

Well they did draft him, that is where the blame is on Lias.

Ok. So what? They also drafted Kakko, Lafreniere, Schnieder, Miller, Chytil, Lundqvist & Kravstov.

Find me a team that has never drafted a first round bust. The next one you name will be the first one in history.

And we are not discussing whether or not he should or should not have been drafted. At last check, we were discussing on what happened after he was drafted.

 

[Daves a mess]

So off the top of my head and if my sucky math holds up here LAF is on pace for a 7.3 pts per 82 game schedule?

Good news is KK is crushing it at like 24 pts per season i think.

Woof

 

[True Blue]

the PP on the other hand. Quinn needs to make some major changes on that.

Like I said, the missing ingredient is DeAngelo. The PP looked much better with him running it. Now I get that ship has sailed. Two of the issues that my untrained eye sees is with Fox running it, there are absolutely no shots from the point. Fox himself would rather deke and pass or use his wrister. The latter would be fine if there were several players in front of the net hunting for rebounds. But there are not. Which leads to the second point of sometimes, instead of just making a rush, it would serve to get the puck deep and then outnumber the defenders in retrieving it.

If one was to experiment, I would place Fox on the point, Panarin on the left wall, Buchnevich on the right and both Kreider and Lemieux in front of the net. Of course I have no idea who would win the face off with such an alignment

 

[E-Train]

So is tonight the game Bitetto qualifies to be exposed? I thought it was 3 for him and 18 for Hajek. They have to get these games in, keep JMFJ out the rest of the year.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So is tonight the game Bitetto qualifies to be exposed? I thought it was 3 for him and 18 for Hajek. They have to get these games in, keep JMFJ out the rest of the year.

Bitetto, like Rooney, already reached the threshold.

Games remaining for others:

Hajek: 21
Gauthier: 24
DiGiuseppe: 17
Blackwell: 23

 

[True Blue]

Not a lot do, because not a lot are playing there at that age. If you're playing there at that age, there's a reason. Both of these guys came in as 100% NHL ready and can't miss. Every pundit pegged Laf for a 60 point equivalent season - again, he's 19 so he was seen as even more ready. Kakko was already playing against men. Guys of their pedigree should be showing more than they are right now - any one saying anything else is making excuses at this point and trying to make it seem like its not as bad as it is.

I remember seeing no such projections for Lafreniere. What pundit would possibly projects a 60 point trajectory for a 19 year old who a) has not touched hockey in 10 months b) had a two week camp adn c) zero point zero pre-season games to get ready?

On Kakko, playing against men in Liga is NOT nearly the same thing as playing against men in the top league in the world. And please do not state the World Champioships as most of the NHL players are not really into it and it takes players that are currently not in the NHL playoffs.

Have you seen the type of starts that players like Messier, Lecavalier, Nash, Thorton or more recently Barkov had? How's Cozens doing in Buffalo right now?

Yeah, Kaapo has looked better but he's still one bad shift away from riding shotgun with Blackwell and Rooney. Laf looks like he has absolutely zero confidence out there.

Imagine your reaction if he was scratched for a game right after a game in which he scored a goal like Cozens was.

This coach can't translate his message to kids who didn't play college, that's the trend and the common denominator here. It's two of these types of prospects in a row right now.

This is such a crock. The latest narrative which follows a long list of "how much worse can they get" narratives. What college did Buchnevich go to? And if you admit that Kakko is in fact playing better, then clearly you need to come up with what college he attended. BTW, I forget, what is Chytil's alma matter?

 

[Avery16]

Bitetto, like Rooney, already reached the threshold.

Games remaining for others:

Hajek: 21
Gauthier: 24
DiGiuseppe: 17
Blackwell: 23

CapFriendly's real-time tool has those numbers swapped for Hajek and Gauthier.

 

[RGY]

What are Panarin's numbers away from Strome?

Someone had it somewhere in the summer, but Panarin’s possession numbers with Chytil were just as positive. It was a limited sample size but Panarin didn’t lose all ability with Chytil next to him.

 

[Avery16]

So is tonight the game Bitetto qualifies to be exposed? I thought it was 3 for him and 18 for Hajek. They have to get these games in, keep JMFJ out the rest of the year.

Would keep playing Hajek/Bitetto over Johnson/Smith regardless

 

[Kovalev27]

Sorry but the guy above is right. 1 goal on a tap in thru 11 games is garbage for lafreniere period

this kid should be producing anything else is excuses. He should not be where kakko and hughes were last year and frankly his numbers don’t even touch theirs

kakko while playing much better is no where near where he should be either.

now I disagree with the college thing. But I do see a significant difference between defense prospects and forward prospects. Quinn is a former dman first rounder. Maybe his messaging works with those kids but it is falling very flat with the forward prospects. Very concerning

 

[RGY]

Ultimately, Panarin is not being held back by Strome.

We are getting superstar production from our superstar winger being paid superstar money.

I do not think we are going to see some astronomical jump in production even if Eichel/Barkov were his center

Its not about Panarin being held back. Its the fact that Strome has been a detriment to the overall ply of that line. And because he is on Panarin’s line he is going to continue to get minutes. So no I dont look at it as ‘well if Panarin has xxxx he would be scoring 150 points!’ No I look at it as, if Panarin had a better Center, with the minutes that line gets per game, they would have possession of the puck longer. They would be in the offensive zone longer. He would have a center who can make clean zone entries and set up offensive possession.

I'm not a Strome guy and I think he's propped up by Panarin but we're not really in the place to be bitching about him right now when Chytil is injured and Mika has been awful.

Much bigger fish to fry

The center position is just as a big of a fish as the 3rd pair on this team. But youre right Chytil is injured. And part of my post was suggesting that Chytil deserves his look on Panarin’s line when he returns. Strome has been miserable.

With the amount of dead cap space this year, we should all be counting our blessings that our #2C is someone like Strome.

I consider Strome as part of that “dead cap space.” I am not counting any blessings. We have Chytil who could and should be the 2C at this point. Yes he is of course injured right now, but when he was healthy he was a better option than Strome.

 

[Vitto79]

CapFriendly's real-time tool has those numbers swapped for Hajek and Gauthier.

so right now Gauthier is not eligible for the expansion draft ? That’s. Good thing if true

 

[Avery16]

so right now Gauthier is not eligible for the expansion draft ? That’s. Good thing if true

He's not eligible for us to use him to fulfill our minimum exposure requirements. He still will likely get exposed and could still get claimed.