Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXIX - Clever Title

[Ruggs225]

Well thats probably true as well. Georgiev cant go 2 weeks without a start. I think i would have given shesty 1 more though before going to geo

 

[I Eat Crow]

Zib will be a very real, and probably very difficult conversation for the team.

It's kind of the elephant in the room that I know some fans really don't want to think about right now. But it's there, and it's going to lead to some interesting decisions.

Do you think dealing him this summer to get something back in a trade is on the table, especially if the front office knows they won't extend him and if Eichel or Barkov is a possibility? Could Zibanejad be a part of the package to acquire one of them?

 

[NYSPORTS]

Barry Troz speaking about his 4th line as his "identity line" in that you have to play physical while so many are looking for finesse.

hmm

 

[NYR]

Barry Troz speaking about his 4th line as his "identity line" in that you have to play physical while so many are looking for finesse.

hmm

Werd..

 

[MarkMessyay11]

When was the last time Gorton really made a splash that altered the team in a significant or somewhat significant way? I don't count lucking into the #1 pick as a splash, nor do I count the Staal trade as a splash even if it was an addition by subtraction.

In addition to what @bobbop said about Fox...

Brassard for Zibanejad and a 2nd

Nash and Grabner trade trees resulted in some key pieces coming into the organization - Nash for Spooner, Belesky, Lindgren and a 1st. Grabner for Rykov and a 2nd. Spooner was flipped for Strome. The BOS 1st was packaged with the NJD 2nd to move up and draft K'Andre Miller.

So he essentially turned Nash and Grabner into Strome, Lindgren, Miller, and Rykov.

Kevin Hayes trade ultimately turned into Trouba and Lemieux.

Zuccarello was traded for a package including a 2019 2nd that was used to draft Matthew Robertson.

You can judge the McDonagh trade however you want, but it ultimately ended up bringing us Howden, Hajek, Nils Lundkvist, and Karl Henriksson.

 

[Crease]

This is exactly where I am. I think we’ll continue to be looked at as naysayers or doomsdayers while everyone else rationalizes their way around the lack of production we are seeing.

I want to make one thing clear though. I’m not here proclaiming these kids to be busts, or actively advocating that we trade them or something. I want them to succeed really, really badly. I am just voicing what I feel to be rational concern over the disappointing early returns on this team’s highest ever draft picks.

I think what we are seeing is the product of Quinn’s “there are no calculated risks, every turnover is bad” philosophy with younger players.

 

[huerter]

Barry Troz speaking about his 4th line as his "identity line" in that you have to play physical while so many are looking for finesse.

hmm

They pay them what like 8 mil combined? We didn't want to give our identity player 2M for 3 years.

 

[I Eat Crow]

I think what we are seeing is the product of Quinn’s “there are no calculated risks, every turnover is bad” philosophy with younger players.

I've been saying this a while. The younger players are playing like they're afraid of making a mistake.

 

[duhmetreE]

We have the worst center play and a suspect o-zone game plan.

PP setup still sucks. I'm glad they "practiced"

Get Zibs away from the 1st line and PP1. Hopefully Blackwell is back soon.

Panarin had the game on his stick but Varlomov read him like a Harry Potter book.

Buch had his worst game of the season, hopefully it ends there.

 

[aufheben]

Funny thing is I don't know if indifference is a viable option for our board.

The end result will likely float between acceptance and happiness with the overall score card, or acceptance and disapproval of the overall score card. With many hot takes in-between.

What I mean is no one is okay with draft picks busting, but it’s the reality, and it’s inevitable to a degree.

There were always going to be casualties. But, all it takes is hitting home runs on a few picks; K’Andre Miller is starting to look like one.

 

[Cag29]

In addition to what @bobbop said about Fox...

Brassard for Zibanejad and a 2nd

Nash and Grabner trade trees resulted in some key pieces coming into the organization - Nash for Spooner, Belesky, Lindgren and a 1st. Grabner for Rykov and a 2nd. Spooner was flipped for Strome. The BOS 1st was packaged with the NJD 2nd to move up and draft K'Andre Miller.

So he essentially turned Nash and Grabner into Strome, Lindgren, Miller, and Rykov.

Kevin Hayes trade ultimately turned into Trouba and Lemieux.

Zuccarello was traded for a package including a 2019 2nd that was used to draft Matthew Robertson.

You can judge the McDonagh trade however you want, but it ultimately ended up bringing us Howden, Hajek, Nils Lundkvist, and Karl Henriksson.

Gorton has done a very good job. Patience give them a chance to develope.

 

[aufheben]

Who knew as soon as this team started playing defense people would start complaining about the offense?

I would have bet my life savings on it if I could have.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

In addition to what @bobbop said about Fox...

Brassard for Zibanejad and a 2nd

Nash and Grabner trade trees resulted in some key pieces coming into the organization - Nash for Spooner, Belesky, Lindgren and a 1st. Grabner for Rykov and a 2nd. Spooner was flipped for Strome. The BOS 1st was packaged with the NJD 2nd to move up and draft K'Andre Miller.

So he essentially turned Nash and Grabner into Strome, Lindgren, Miller, and Rykov.

Kevin Hayes trade ultimately turned into Trouba and Lemieux.

Zuccarello was traded for a package including a 2019 2nd that was used to draft Matthew Robertson.

You can judge the McDonagh trade however you want, but it ultimately ended up bringing us Howden, Hajek, Nils Lundkvist, and Karl Henriksson.

I asked when was the last time he made an impact move. I never said he didn't make one.

 

[aufheben]

Nothing that hasn't been explained in countless pages, a half-a-dozen different ways. I'm not really sure there's too terribly much to add.

I kind of feel like that this point it's pretty much a personality test. People are set in how they're going to interpret it, and very little is likely to change their basic instinct response.

I honestly don’t see the value in comparing him to other #1OAs. Players develop differently...some peak immediately and fizzle out (Yakupov,) or peak early and level-out (Nuge*,) some explode almost a decade after being drafted (Zibanejad,) some start slow and then take 50% jumps until they’re winning Hart Trophies (Draisaitl).

Idk, maybe this is stupid, but the way I look at it is: if Lafreniere was like a 4th round pick or something, how would I look at him right now?

*Best season = rookie year
**2 goals in 31 games @ 19 yrs.

 

[wafflepadsave]

This roster screams nothing.

they literally are not collectively good at anything.

There’s still quite a few placeholders yet. Maybe this summer clears things up.

 

[Sayba]

He is 21. He picked up his ball and ran away home last year after not being awarded a starting spot. In other words, he decided he he was better than Chytil and did not need to show management that he is deserving. THEN he ran away back to Sweden. After sending out odd messages, he then got his wish and was traded at the age of 21 to LA. Where the Kings have played 11 games and he has dressed for 8, has all of one point and is averaging 11:25 of ice time.

Yup all on the NYR coaching and front office.[/QUOTE


Well they did draft him, that is where the blame is on Lias.

 

[wafflepadsave]

In that this team doesn't really have a set style that they try to play. It's always let the other team lead the dance and hope that your guys are ready to play and/or your PP is clicking.

it doesn't have to be uniform across the board, for instance, I would NEVER try to get Panarin to play more of a "grinding" game but there needs to be some direction for the majority.

Forget the production for now, what exactly are they trying to accomplish as a group? Because I don't see what they're trying to do.

yes, they don’t seem positioned right where you can fling the puck around the boards and you’ll know someone will be there to grab it and go.

 

[Synergy27]

I honestly don’t see the value in comparing him to other #1OAs. Players develop differently...some peak immediately and fizzle out (Yakupov,) or peak early and level-out (Nuge*,) some explode almost a decade after being drafted (Zibanejad,) some start slow and then take 50% jumps until they’re winning Hart Trophies (Draisaitl).

Idk, maybe this is stupid, but the way I look at it is: if Lafreniere was like a 4th round pick or something, how would I look at him right now?

*Best season = rookie year
**2 goals in 31 games @ 19 yrs.

I think this is a fine way to look at Kakko. Laf, though, was billed as just a notch below the “generational” guys and if he ends up following the same trajectory as Yakupov or RNH it’s going to be a massive disappointment.

 

[Tob]

If what Kakko said in that interview is true that Quinn was telling him to "don't do this, don't do that" which made him stop trying to be offensively dynamic and even trying to make plays, then it would pretty much explain why none of our young forwards have exceled offensively and why Howden is so loved by Quinn despite not putting up even 4C numbers. Quinn is an offensively suffocating coach. Hopefully whatever 200 ft game the prospects are learning is worth it. If we get a real coach next season, I can see all of our F prospects and players looking like 1OV, 2OV players we expected them to be.

 

[Irishguy42]

Not a huge fan of re-evaluating trades in the manner of just taking picks and filling in who was drafted at that spot and calling that as part of the original trade (unless the selection is made immediately following the trade), or even extending the tree a bit like with the few consecutive trades Gorton did with Winnipeg.

Entirely separate transactions, and should be viewed as such.

All that being said, without slotting in names for the picks, Gorton still does above average.

 

[Ruggs225]

If what Kakko said in that interview is true that Quinn was telling him to "don't do this, don't do that" which made him stop trying to be offensively dynamic and even trying to make plays, then it would pretty much explain why none of our young forwards have exceled offensively and why Howden is so loved by Quinn despite not putting up even 4C numbers. Quinn is an offensively suffocating coach. Hopefully whatever 200 ft game the prospects are learning is worth it. If we get a real coach next season, I can see all of our F prospects and players looking like 1OV, 2OV players we expected them to be.

We had the 5th highest scoring offense in the NHL last year under Quinn. Wanting guys to play good defense doesnt mean they are suffocating them offensively

and telling a kid to “not do this, do that” etc is called coaching. We want him to give instruction to players. If he didnt i would be worried.

 

[SRHRangers]

The only trade I will crush Gorton for is the Mcdonagh trade.

I hated that from jumpstreet and was baffled why JT Miller was ever even added into it.

I hope Gorton got breakfast and cab fare home for that from Yzerman.

 

[DutchShamrock]

If what Kakko said in that interview is true that Quinn was telling him to "don't do this, don't do that" which made him stop trying to be offensively dynamic and even trying to make plays, then it would pretty much explain why none of our young forwards have exceled offensively and why Howden is so loved by Quinn despite not putting up even 4C numbers. Quinn is an offensively suffocating coach. Hopefully whatever 200 ft game the prospects are learning is worth it. If we get a real coach next season, I can see all of our F prospects and players looking like 1OV, 2OV players we expected them to be.

This is the scary part. Call it circumstantial evidence or unverified information, but it seems to be what the signs point to. I guess you hope it mirrors the Buchnevich trajectory, where he got the demands of the other zones and the offense came back. But damn, these guys seem stiffled with over coaching.

 

[Off Sides]

Of course hockey is give and take, more D usually means less O. What type of team are they going to be? It's fine to lean more D, yet if that means Panarin or Zbad or whoever needs to convert for them to score a goal or two any given game on their one or two opportunities I am not so sure that is the way to go. I'd rather see them being a team who is forcing the other team to defend. Not like AV overload everywhere chances against be damned, yet not the complete opposite either.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Who knew as soon as this team started playing defense people would start complaining about the offense?

I would have bet my life savings on it if I could have.

the offense sucks so we can't complain about it?

The all offense no d Rangers of last year were a hell of a lot more fun to watch. And they were winning more games, too.