Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXX

[Amazing Kreiderman]

We needed more skilled grit on our team. Hopefully it works out.

I get that, but what throws me off about especially Cuylle, is that his physicality seems to be his defining skill. And that's never a good thing. I'm just not impressed with this draft class, aside from the 1st and 5th round

 

[GAGLine]

Yes and no. There still is not a guaranteed top pair caliber
LHD there unless everything breaks right for Miller. I’ve been saying for months but that is the biggest hole on the team. They need to get Trouba a better partner. It’s probably not happening this season, which is very negligent. Trouba needs to have a much better year this season after the investment made in him, and he will probably have a revolving door of D partners again.

How is it negligent? Who were we supposed to get? What were we giving up to get him? And how were we fitting that player under the cap?

 

[RGY]

I love the Schneider pick. Skilled grit.

Kinda hope he can move to the left side

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I get that, but what throws me off about especially Cuylle, is that his physicality seems to be his defining skill. And that's never a good thing. I'm just not impressed with this draft class, aside from the 1st and 5th round

cuylle can shoot it as well as anyone.

it’s the goal scoring potential in addition to the toughness that makes for an intriguing package.

 

[RGY]

Yes, that I am actually agreeing with. Schneider at 19 is a good pick. Trading up from 22 to 19 using a 3rd rounder is a good move. But put the two together and I am not exactly on board.

But my biggest worry is the picks in rounds 2 and 3. Cuylle and Tärnström make no sense to me with what was left on the board. My biggest fear is the sudden change in direction in the middle of a rebuild with the arrival of JD. I hope I am wrong, but I just have a bad feeling about this. JD comes across as a guy with a very conservative view on the game. I know this fanbase loves him because of his time in net and in the booth but did we really need a president whois this hands on, when we have a GM in full control of a rebuild, who has proven he can make the right moves with his tenure in Boston?

Why are we blaming JD for addressing a part of the build of this team that we are lacking? JD or not we have too many “skill” guys and not enough guys that play that heavier game. Its time to start filling out the organizational needs and have those cheap support players on ELCs that are also developed from within that the best teams find. I like the Cuylle pick. If he can get his offense going then it is an absolute steal. If not, then we have him to fill the areas of the game that we dont think we will get from guys like Chytil and Kravtsov. Probably won’t get that from Kakko either. We can draft another skilled type player next year. But this year we drafted guys that can eventually help stabilize the team as this core continues to grow.

Not to mention, the two places JD has gone have experienced organizational success. One winning a Stanley Cup. For as “conservative” as he may be, something seems to be working because success follows

 

[MysticLeviathan]

I love the Schneider pick. Skilled grit.

Schneider isn’t skilled. He’s a solid stay at home defensive defenseman.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

How was it a quiet off season when we won the draft lottery and added a player of Lafreniere stature for nothing? That about the biggest move the Rangers have ever made? Second only to Adding Mark Messier 10/4/91. I believe it was.
I will thoroughly enjoy watching Lafreniere and company moving forward. LGR!

We really didn’t do jack in FA. Did you see the board after we traded Staal? It was all “This is to set up the big move”, and no big move was made. The biggest moves in FA were net negatives in losing Fast and signing Johnson. No Fast replacement and Johnson is worse than Staal. I think the ADA contract was fantastic and I think Strome’s was perfectly reasonabls. LeMew’s, although a bit expensive imo, is ultimately not exactly consequential at $1.55mm AAV. It was a quiet offseason. When talking FA and the draft after #1OA, I’d argue it was disappointing.

To me the offseason overall was a B- We haven’t fixed our biggest hole at LHD nor even draft a LHD or trade for a LHD prospect who is close to ready. 2C I can forgive since it’s a more expensive position and we have players who can possibly become a 2C in Chytil and Strome may grow into a true 2C, though that seems far less likely.

 

[GAGLine]

We really didn’t do jack in FA. Did you see the board after we traded Staal? It was all “This is to set up the big move”, and no big move was made.

The only people saying that were the ones who didn't understand about the bonuses. The only way we were going to make a significant move was via trade, and it didn't materialize.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I prefer gritty skill guys with moderate levels on both the ceiling and chance axes over skilled grit guys with low ceilings and better chances to meet those.

 

[broadwayblue]

We didn’t draft a single LHD in this year’s draft. Schneider is close to being ready, but he’s a RHD, a position we already have a logjam in. By drafting Schneider we created another unnecessary problem.

There was nobody available in the draft this year who was going to come in and solve our issue at LD.

 

[RangerBlues]

So besides minus Fast and Hank and adding 13 they are throwing the same exact team as last season.

 

[Cag29]

I get that, but what throws me off about especially Cuylle, is that his physicality seems to be his defining skill. And that's never a good thing. I'm just not impressed with this draft class, aside from the 1st and 5th round

I read he can shoot really well.

 

[kovazub94]

Yes, that I am actually agreeing with. Schneider at 19 is a good pick. Trading up from 22 to 19 using a 3rd rounder is a good move. But put the two together and I am not exactly on board.

But my biggest worry is the picks in rounds 2 and 3. Cuylle and Tärnström make no sense to me with what was left on the board. My biggest fear is the sudden change in direction in the middle of a rebuild with the arrival of JD. I hope I am wrong, but I just have a bad feeling about this. JD comes across as a guy with a very conservative view on the game. I know this fanbase loves him because of his time in net and in the booth but did we really need a president whois this hands on, when we have a GM in full control of a rebuild, who has proven he can make the right moves with his tenure in Boston?

There’s hardly anything in common between Cuylle and Tarnstrom. What are these indicative of in respect to JD’s conservative views?

 

[NYRangers16]

I love optimism but we didn't change the team much and got swept by Carolina, i realize it wasn't under ideal circumstances but we were never in that series at all, and to be fair without stellar goaltending we wouldn't have beaten them all year. I think we have a long way to go personally. Adding Lafreniere should help, but we also lost Fast, a key defensive player and more importantly one of our better penalty killers on a team that needs help there. My personal timeline is to make playoffs this year, make a bit of a run next and then when guys like Miller, Kravtsov, Lundkvist, Barron etc are ready to assume big roles we will be a cup team. I love our direction but its gonna take some more time but thats just my opinion. Ill gladly be wrong and take a playoff run this year.

I agree with this. That LD isn’t playoff calibur at all but maybe we can be a low ranked playoff team that at best wins one round this year.

Smith/Johnson and/or one of our young guys could certainly hold down 3LD. But we really didn’t address our two main needs - an all-around top 2 LD and a quality #2 C that can play defense too.

The calculus changes if we make trades to fill these holes. It also would help to add some quality bottom 6 forwards. But until these moves are made(or we develop our own) we aren’t going to make much playoff noise.

 

[kovazub94]

We really didn’t do jack in FA. Did you see the board after we traded Staal? It was all “This is to set up the big move”, and no big move was made. The biggest moves in FA were net negatives in losing Fast and signing Johnson. No Fast replacement and Johnson is worse than Staal. I think the ADA contract was fantastic and I think Strome’s was perfectly reasonabls. LeMew’s, although a bit expensive imo, is ultimately not exactly consequential at $1.55mm AAV. It was a quiet offseason. When talking FA and the draft after #1OA, I’d argue it was disappointing.

To me the offseason overall was a B- We haven’t fixed our biggest hole at LHD nor even draft a LHD or trade for a LHD prospect who is close to ready. 2C I can forgive since it’s a more expensive position and we have players who can possibly become a 2C in Chytil and Strome may grow into a true 2C, though that seems far less likely.

If what you got after Staal’s trade was “we’re setting up for a big move” - meaning via free agency - then you’re following the wrong people.

 

[bobbop]

We traded up for Schneider. That’s the problem. There was no need to trade up for him. If he were a LHD, it would make a lot of sense. But to trade up for a guy we’re overloaded in isn’t a smart move imo.

The Rangers traded up because he was the BPA on their board. I think @Edge said he was #12. The fact that they traded in front of the Devils was a nice bonus.

You are being pretty judgemental about Schneider's skill. He's not Adam Fox but he is not a plumber either. He has a chance to be a contributor on offense. He also may get to New York a lot faster than some people expect.

The Rangers clearly watched the playoffs this year, saw what their roster lacks and picked players to help fill those gaps. It's very likely JD had an influence on the draft. If I was in the room I would have had similar suggestions.

 

[Cag29]

Schneider isn’t skilled. He’s a solid stay at home defensive defenseman.

He is skilled as well. From what I watched. Big strong tough. Just what we need.

 

[SA16]

The Rangers traded up because he was the BPA on their board. I think @Edge said he was #12. The fact that they traded in front of the Devils was a nice bonus.

You are being pretty judgemental about Schneider's skill. He's not Adam Fox but he is not a plumber either. He has a chance to be a contributor on offense. He also may get to New York a lot faster than some people expect.

The Rangers clearly watched the playoffs this year, saw what their roster lacks and picked players to help fill those gaps. It's very likely JD had an influence on the draft. If I was in the room I would have had similar suggestions.

How'd that work out with Greg McKegg?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

How'd that work out with Greg McKegg?

 

[Barnaby]

Schneider isn’t skilled. He’s a solid stay at home defensive defenseman.

Not skilled? Wow. He’s not going to put up ADA’s offense, but that is a gross mischaracterization.

A guy a number of teams had in their top 10 who plays the type of game the Rangers lack. They moved up to get a guy they clearly valued as BPA. I love the pick.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

There’s hardly anything in common between Cuylle and Tarnstrom. What are these indicative of in respect to JD’s conservative views?

They're both bottom 6 players at best IMO. These are the type of players you pick up in free agency. Not in the 2nd or 3rd round. We talk about Lindbom all the time. These picks are in that same conversation for me

Berard and Vierling are picks I really like though

 

[kovazub94]

They're both bottom 6 players at best IMO. These are the type of players you pick up in free agency. Not in the 2nd or 3rd round. We talk about Lindbom all the time. These picks are in that same conversation for me

Berard and Vierling are picks I really like though

Determination of whether a prospect a top-6 or bottom-6 or a bust happens when they stop developing.

 

[Mikos87]

Yes, that I am actually agreeing with. Schneider at 19 is a good pick. Trading up from 22 to 19 using a 3rd rounder is a good move. But put the two together and I am not exactly on board.

But my biggest worry is the picks in rounds 2 and 3. Cuylle and Tärnström make no sense to me with what was left on the board. My biggest fear is the sudden change in direction in the middle of a rebuild with the arrival of JD. I hope I am wrong, but I just have a bad feeling about this. JD comes across as a guy with a very conservative view on the game. I know this fanbase loves him because of his time in net and in the booth but did we really need a president whois this hands on, when we have a GM in full control of a rebuild, who has proven he can make the right moves with his tenure in Boston?

I would surmise that most NHL teams function more like a think tank than a traditional corporate hierarchy. Every team is different, and I also think that there is innovation in the game. Carolina with their business ops is pushing the envelope, Dunden is a very impressive guy. SJ has a very interesting analytic strategy. TOR is run by some super sharp guys.

Let's take TOR for example since they are much further along in their rebuild. I don't know their internal machinations, but if you do the math with their strategy, totally makes sense. All of their issues are related to the post pandemic cap. They projected a rise in the cap (as did many), and that's their "folly". Lots of fan engagement around that, great. They are getting a bunch of league minimums. Disaster scenario solved? It will be interesting to see.

If you look to see when Shanahan won, it was with DET. They might be trying to build another DET. Two top tier centers. Your number 1 D. Elite wings. That's 40-48 minutes a night of match-up concerns, and betting that they can get 12-20 a night from the other guys. That team gets better at counter transitions, they'll take a step and be fun to watch. That's why they go get a guy like Brodie. CAR is a similar team.

If you look at how Dubas analytic strategy works, it's way more advanced than any media outlet can consider and this would be just applying advanced assumptions on public data. The core goals? It's about giving his team the best odd of winning. It's a good way to compare two markets, and how two organizations are building different teams with different ways of team building. The biggest difference between the two teams is 3-4 years of development time after getting top picks. So is TOR more advanced than New York?Sure, let's call it that but are they different? Absolutely. But sometimes, the more things change, the more it stays the same. There's more than one way to build a team.

 

[GAGLine]

They're both bottom 6 players at best IMO. These are the type of players you pick up in free agency. Not in the 2nd or 3rd round. We talk about Lindbom all the time. These picks are in that same conversation for me

Berard and Vierling are picks I really like though

If obtaining bottom 6 players via free agency is so easy, then why is our bottom 6, and especially our 4th line, so bad most years? Our best, most consistent bottom 6 player the last number of years was Fast, whom we drafted.

If we want bottom 6 players who have grit, can cycle and defend, and have enough skill to pot a few goals, we have to use higher picks on them.

 

[smoneil]

So besides minus Fast and Hank and adding 13 they are throwing the same exact team as last season.

There's a lot more than that. Staal and Skjei are both gone. Potential adds of Miller, Kravtsov, Hajek and other kids. Growth of players like Kakko, Chytil, Fox, Lindgren. Shesty playing more than a handful of games. New D-coach/philosophy that will hopefully help improve the PK. The money was tight. Not a lot that COULD be done this year, but I'm here for the growth of the kids and the cap space the year after.