Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXX

[Tob]

nvm

 

[RangerBlues]

I dont expect to see Kravtsov here this season. They wont guarantee him a roster spot. We still dont even know what the Status of the AHL is. He was not thrilled with Hartford without a pandemic, imagine trying to stick him there now.
And I dont think Miller is NHL ready.

 

[bobbop]

I would surmise that most NHL teams function more like a think tank than a traditional corporate hierarchy. Every team is different, and I also think that there is innovation in the game. Carolina with their business ops is pushing the envelope, Dunden is a very impressive guy. SJ has a very interesting analytic strategy. TOR is run by some super sharp guys.

Let's take TOR for example since they are much further along in their rebuild. I don't know their internal machinations, but if you do the math with their strategy, totally makes sense. All of their issues are related to the post pandemic cap. They projected a rise in the cap (as did many), and that's their "folly". Lots of fan engagement around that, great. They are getting a bunch of league minimums. Disaster scenario solved? It will be interesting to see.

If you look to see when Shanahan won, it was with DET. They might be trying to build another DET. Two top tier centers. Your number 1 D. Elite wings. That's 40-48 minutes a night of match-up concerns, and betting that they can get 12-20 a night from the other guys. That team gets better at counter transitions, they'll take a step and be fun to watch. That's why they go get a guy like Brodie. CAR is a similar team.

If you look at how Dubas analytic strategy works, it's way more advanced than any media outlet can consider and this would be just applying advanced assumptions on public data. The core goals? It's about giving his team the best odd of winning. It's a good way to compare two markets, and how two organizations are building different teams with different ways of team building. The biggest difference between the two teams is 3-4 years of development time after getting top picks. So is TOR more advanced than New York?Sure, let's call it that but are they different? Absolutely. But sometimes, the more things change, the more it stays the same. There's more than one way to build a team.

The thing about Toronto that is interesting to me is that they stockpiled the BPAs but when Dubas had a chance to make his signature trade and balance the roster, he shit the bed. Kadri for Barrie was a disaster, partly because the coach didn’t buy into the trade.

Gorton will have his chance at some point to make that kind of deal. I can’t tell you who the players will be or when it will happen, but I can tell you it is coming, it will be big and it will really impact the future of the team.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The thing about Toronto that is interesting to me is that they stockpiled the BPAs but when Dubas had a chance to make his signature trade and balance the roster, he shit the bed. Kadri for Barrie was a disaster, partly because the coach didn’t buy into the trade.

Gorton will have his chance at some point to make that kind of deal. I can’t tell you who the players will be or when it will happen, but I can tell you it is coming, it will be big and it will really impact the future of the team.

Getting Taveres totally messed up their cap balance. They didn't need a center, they had Kadri at 4.5 mill...they needed a top pair dman, had none in the system and can'tafford one. Its for this reason im more about the way we did things by drafting a lot of dmen we've allowed ourselves some cap relief because we can self promote dmen to offset our high priced players. If there was a mistep in this build i can't see it right now, i mean we probably should have gotten more from Tampa but the cap relief had value too so even then i can't complain.

 

[ncmike]

How is it negligent? Who were we supposed to get? What were we giving up to get him? And how were we fitting that player under the cap?[/QUOTE

if they make a move to shore up 2c or a ld than that player will have to be protected in the expansion draft. That means someone has to be exposed. Who do you leave exposed?
Plus all this garbage about Gordon not making a trade! Does any one really think he didn’t try? If he makes a trade and gives up a lot, everyone here would crucify him

 

[ncmike]

We really didn’t do jack in FA. Did you see the board after we traded Staal? It was all “This is to set up the big move”, and no big move was made. The biggest moves in FA were net negatives in losing Fast and signing Johnson. No Fast replacement and Johnson is worse than Staal. I think the ADA contract was fantastic and I think Strome’s was perfectly reasonabls. LeMew’s, although a bit expensive imo, is ultimately not exactly consequential at $1.55mm AAV. It was a quiet offseason. When talking FA and the draft after #1OA, I’d argue it was disappointing.

To me the offseason overall was a B- We haven’t fixed our biggest hole at LHD nor even draft a LHD or trade for a LHD prospect who is close to ready. 2C I can forgive since it’s a more expensive position and we have players who can possibly become a 2C in Chytil and Strome may grow into a true 2C, though that seems far less likely.

Jesus Christ people. It takes two to tango. If you think JD and Gorton sat on there hands and didn’t try to make deals then your nuts.
Again, if they made a trade that gave up way more than they got you guys would be calling for a public execution.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Jesus Christ people. It takes two to tango. If you think JD and Gorton sat on there hands and didn’t try to make deals then your nuts.
Again, if they made a trade that gave up way more than they got you guys would be calling for a public execution.

We still didn’t do anything. I never said or implied they didn’t try, I’m just saying they didn’t do anything. What they did do, sign Jack Johnson, was an objectively terrible move. What they didn’t do, not resigning Fast, will likely be looked back as being a poor decision, but hindsight may view it differently. I still think right now it was a mistake to not resign Fast.

I also think looking at the contracts signed, that we could have picked up a better LHD than Jack Johnson. I mean honestly anyone would’ve been better than Jack Johnson. And looking at our cap situation we could’ve easily spent an extra $500k per year on a defenseman over Johnson.

My overall frustration is that everyone and his grandmother knew our biggest issue going into the offseason was LHD. Coming out of the offseason we didn’t fix that issue at all. That doesn’t mean I don’t think they tried, but they ultimately didn’t get it done via trade. That doesn’t change the fact we could’ve spent a few hundred thousand dollars extra and gotten a better defenseman, even if for one year.

 

[bobbop]

Getting Taveres totally messed up their cap balance. They didn't need a center, they had Kadri at 4.5 mill...they needed a top pair dman, had none in the system and can'tafford one. Its for this reason im more about the way we did things by drafting a lot of dmen we've allowed ourselves some cap relief because we can self promote dmen to offset our high priced players. If there was a mistep in this build i can't see it right now, i mean we probably should have gotten more from Tampa but the cap relief had value too so even then i can't complain.

Tough to pass up a guy like Tavares

 

[B17 Apricots]

Jesus Christ people. It takes two to tango. If you think JD and Gorton sat on there hands and didn’t try to make deals then your nuts.
Again, if they made a trade that gave up way more than they got you guys would be calling for a public execution.

Not to mention, almost any deal for a LHD probably forces your hand to include TDA because of expansion. If not, your odd man out probably becomes Lindgren and you lose him in expansion. Obviously they can make further moves to avoid all that but theres just a ton of if's there. I think for the time being unless a deal really makes sense theyre gonna sit tight with the D group they have for the season. Under the radar I'm really looking to see Smith pick up where he left off last season

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I dont expect to see Kravtsov here this season. They wont guarantee him a roster spot. We still dont even know what the Status of the AHL is. He was not thrilled with Hartford without a pandemic, imagine trying to stick him there now.
And I dont think Miller is NHL ready.

We also don't have the cap space for Kravtsov (or Barron)

 

[FIRE DRURY]

We still didn’t do anything. I never said or implied they didn’t try, I’m just saying they didn’t do anything

And sometimes, the best move is the one you don’t make.

These are wacky time we live in. Flat cap. Uncertainty with next season. Moving on from our 3 longest tenured players.

Gorton managed to secure 4 RFA’s who play important roles for us for the next 2 years. These are transition years and we’re going balls deep into unknown times with a lot of flexibility that many teams ultimately won’t have.

Just gotta be more patient and let things unfold.

 

[smoneil]

I dont expect to see Kravtsov here this season. They wont guarantee him a roster spot. We still dont even know what the Status of the AHL is. He was not thrilled with Hartford without a pandemic, imagine trying to stick him there now.
And I dont think Miller is NHL ready.

I doubt we see Miller at the beginning of the year. I'd wager that the left side of the D looks like some combo of Smith/Johnson/Hajek/ADA. Ideally, Miller is ready for a run with the big team by the trade deadline, where I expect the team to move Smith at 50%.

As for Kravtsov, the opportunity is there. The left is locked down pretty tight (Panarin, Laf, Kreider, Lemieux), but the right side is almost wide open. Buch and Kakko have pretty safe spots, but Gauthier isn't a cert by any means, and I imagine that's who Kravtsov is competing with (as neither is really a 4th line kind of player). I could see Krav coming to camp and if he doesn't make it, getting sent back to the KHL for the year. If the team decides to move on from Buch at the deadline (not what I would do, but...), bring him back then.

This is the kind of season where I'll be a lot more interested in what the team looks like at game 60 than I am in how they look in game 1.

 

[Fitzy]

I didn’t want to take a subpar return for ADA. He would have been the big piece in any offseason trade, and the cap situation screwed the trade market for ADA.

maybe next offseason it will be different

 

[Savant]

How is it negligent? Who were we supposed to get? What were we giving up to get him? And how were we fitting that player under the cap?

Giving your highest paid/longest term dman terrible partners is negligent. And this is not the first time the Rangers have done this either. Maybe a deal was out there maybe it wasn’t, but the Rangers have enough assets to swing a deal for almost any player in the league.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Giving your highest paid/longest term dman terrible partners is negligent. And this is not the first time the Rangers have done this either. Maybe a deal was out there maybe it wasn’t, but the Rangers have enough assets to swing a deal for almost any player in the league.

That doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be a good trade though. The asking price for the dmen you’re thinking of likely starts with Fox, KK, or Laf.

There are what, 35-45 very good LHD in this league? Most of the teams that have that player are reluctant to give him up. If they are, the price will likely be absurd.

Skjei was moved for a 1st round pick. Brady. f***ing. Skjei. And we all know he sucks monkey balls.

A really good LHD, that fits our timeline? You’re talking about a significant amount of compensation. And not just value either - but all the other shit has to work too. Cap/Salary/Contract.

You’re talking about a handful of players that probably fit our structure. I don’t blame Gorton for not blowing his load on acquiring one of them. Hell, the answer to that hole defensively might lie within, if we’re patient enough.

 

[egelband]

That's the thing. I think we can contend. Call me a crazy optimist, but I think we're definitely playoff contenders as it stands now.

Last season was a great stepping stone but I actually expect a little backsliding this year. I don’t expect a shitshow or anything but I think there will be some challenges. Just my sense. It is a process, and cutting the line is rare.

 

[GAGLine]

Giving your highest paid/longest term dman terrible partners is negligent. And this is not the first time the Rangers have done this either. Maybe a deal was out there maybe it wasn’t, but the Rangers have enough assets to swing a deal for almost any player in the league.

That's very easy to say, and a lot harder to do. Again, who is that player, what are we trading to get him, and how is he fitting under the cap? If you are going to criticize Gorton for not making a move, then tell us what move he should have made.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

We really didn’t do jack in FA. Did you see the board after we traded Staal? It was all “This is to set up the big move”, and no big move was made. The biggest moves in FA were net negatives in losing Fast and signing Johnson. No Fast replacement and Johnson is worse than Staal. I think the ADA contract was fantastic and I think Strome’s was perfectly reasonabls. LeMew’s, although a bit expensive imo, is ultimately not exactly consequential at $1.55mm AAV. It was a quiet offseason. When talking FA and the draft after #1OA, I’d argue it was disappointing.

To me the offseason overall was a B- We haven’t fixed our biggest hole at LHD nor even draft a LHD or trade for a LHD prospect who is close to ready. 2C I can forgive since it’s a more expensive position and we have players who can possibly become a 2C in Chytil and Strome may grow into a true 2C, though that seems far less likely.

The big move was moving the Staal contract and getting some cap flexibility in a season where we have WAY too much dead space. Kudos to JD and Gorts for being able to get everyone signed (personally, I'd prefer ADA and Strome gone, but there are no other options at this time). This is going to be a sink or swim season -- I think we get a true idea if players like Chytil and Howden will step up.

 

[cheech70]

The big move was moving the Staal contract and getting some cap flexibility in a season where we have WAY too much dead space. Kudos to JD and Gorts for being able to get everyone signed (personally, I'd prefer ADA and Strome gone, but there are no other options at this time). This is going to be a sink or swim season -- I think we get a true idea if players like Chytil and Howden will step up.

Howden is fluff..Filip at 21 is not make or break...Lets see progress and an expanded role on PK and PP.

 

[Savant]

That doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be a good trade though. The asking price for the dmen you’re thinking of likely starts with Fox, KK, or Laf.

There are what, 35-45 very good LHD in this league? Most of the teams that have that player are reluctant to give him up. If they are, the price will likely be absurd.

Skjei was moved for a 1st round pick. Brady. f***ing. Skjei. And we all know he sucks monkey balls.

A really good LHD, that fits our timeline? You’re talking about a significant amount of compensation. And not just value either - but all the other shit has to work too. Cap/Salary/Contract.

You’re talking about a handful of players that probably fit our structure. I don’t blame Gorton for not blowing his load on acquiring one of them. Hell, the answer to that hole defensively might lie within, if we’re patient enough.

I doesn’t mean it would be a bad trade either. And I don’t think it necessarily starts with Laf, KK or Fox either. I’m also not saying that the Rangers weren’t looking. I’m saying the Rangers have the ability to make that kind of a move. With the investment they have in Trouba, they need to protect him and not let him become another Rosizval/Redden

 

[Savant]

That's very easy to say, and a lot harder to do. Again, who is that player, what are we trading to get him, and how is he fitting under the cap? If you are going to criticize Gorton for not making a move, then tell us what move he should have made.

I’m not criticizing Gorton. He probably tried, and there was probably not a deal out there. That’s fine. I hope they are still looking. If for example you could have dealt or renounced Strome, there is some cap (or extra assets) right there. That is something that definitely could have been on the table. Renounce Strome sign a guy like Vatanen on a one year deal as a stop gap and you are arguably better off. Or you find one of those teams that need to cut cap and you move some draft capital. Let’s not pretend it was impossible because it didn’t shake out that way. It’s great the Rangers took care of their own guys, but there were other scenarios.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

And I dont think Miller is NHL ready.

Maybe not today. I think the FO thinks that Miller is really, really close. They seemed to really like what they saw from him in the expanded camp leading up to the play-in series. So, while the opening night roster might not happen, he could be here at some point next season.

I also think that Miller being really close was part of the reason for the JJ signing.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Howden is fluff..Filip at 21 is not make or break...Lets see progress and an expanded role on PK and PP.

With Chytil, it's not a question of age. He's played in over 140 games in the NHL. And I think the PTB want to see some urgency from him. There's certainly an internal hope that he can step up a grab that 2C spot.

 

[GAGLine]

I’m not criticizing Gorton. He probably tried, and there was probably not a deal out there. That’s fine.

When you call it negligent, you are absolutely criticizing Gorton and ignoring the realities of the situation.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Two things: When you compare last season to next season and assess how they improved, you have to acknowledge the age of the roster and likelihood that a ton of overall improvement will come from the kids progressing. We aren't at the point where all the answers have to come from the outside.

If anyone wants a great insight into the draft day decisions, check out the Bill Armstrong interview recently with Spittin Chicklets. He talked about scouting players as well as the other scouts. They had intel and data on who was interested in who. Armstrong said they waited on some picks because no one was in on the guy. They talked about jumping up for others because specific teams ahead in draft position had extensive scouting on that player.

I feel pretty confident the devils and possibly the jackets were in on Schneider. Paying a 3rd to get your #12 ranked player is not a heavy price.