I'm not running down your warped Strome rabbit hole. I never insisted that we trade Trouba. I pointed out correctly that Trouba did not have an active NMC, and suggested that we move Trouba if it allowed us to keep ADA. Trouba's NMC is now active, and ADA is under contract.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXIX
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charliemurphy
Registered User
Yeah, the folks arguing that Strome didn't produce until he was playing with Panarin are in denial. Strome has been very effective since being traded for Ryan F'n Spooner.
1-2 year deal for Strome who will inevitably get moved... what's with the meltdowns?
1-2 year deal for Strome who will inevitably get moved... what's with the meltdowns?
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
I can't believe we have 2 more months of this until the season starts.....
LiveLongandProspal
NY Rangers = America's Team
Yeah, and all we have to show from this offseason is Jack Johnson and that Alex Lafurrier guy
Not really a rabbit hole. All you need to do is look at the games played in NY and the numbers. Of course that will cut against your agenda so I can see why you would shy away from it.
With Trouba, you were ardently arguing for an item (trading him) that any rational person knew was an obsession that had zero point zero chances of happening. It would have been just as easy as demanding they trade for McDavid.
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
I just don't see an argument for not keeping Strome on a 1 year deal?
1. He has proven to be successful with Panarin. Yea, that's not a super high bar to achieve but it's not nothing either.
2. Ensures Chytil doesn't end up over his head. The kid still just turned 21 years old. Why not build in some insulation to allow him to truly earn moving up the lineup?
3. There's no long term risk. He's off the books in a year, same timing as most of the dead cap frees up. If Chytil beats him out, you play him down the lineup or get rid of him.
The only argument against I can see is if they don't care or even want to put pressure on Chytil to see what they have. Or if they want to leave the door open to acquiring an expensive C sometime before next offseason i.e. this winter or TDL and just don't want $4-5M on the books.
1. He has proven to be successful with Panarin. Yea, that's not a super high bar to achieve but it's not nothing either.
2. Ensures Chytil doesn't end up over his head. The kid still just turned 21 years old. Why not build in some insulation to allow him to truly earn moving up the lineup?
3. There's no long term risk. He's off the books in a year, same timing as most of the dead cap frees up. If Chytil beats him out, you play him down the lineup or get rid of him.
The only argument against I can see is if they don't care or even want to put pressure on Chytil to see what they have. Or if they want to leave the door open to acquiring an expensive C sometime before next offseason i.e. this winter or TDL and just don't want $4-5M on the books.
SA16
Sixstring
I don't understand all the talk about Strome's offense. His production with Panarin was good. It will likely remain fine but not at this level. Most competent NHL centers will perform with Panarin. The issues with Strome are he is atrocious defensively and takes a ton of lazy penalties.
This isn't true. He was not effective as a Ranger in 18-19 and he was not effective as a Ranger in 19-20 without Panarin. He has played 1767 minutes at 5v5 with the Rangers. 701 of those minutes were with Panarin. In those minutes he scored 26 points (2.22 points/60). In the other 1067 minutes he has scored 25 points for 1.41 points/60 which is nowhere close to top six level (and that comes with an insane sh% as well so it's higher than expected).
Just messaged my friend who is a great guy and a really knowledgeable Islander fan and hockey fan as well.
He informed me the year (2014/15) that Ryan Strome scored 50 points that Strome was centered by John Tavares. Ryan also was on their Power Play unit. As far as the other wing on that line he believed it was Kyle Okposo.
UnSandvich
Registered User
- Sep 7, 2017
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If Strome bothered to play defense at 5v5, or put the effort in to not take constant bad penalties, I would be less inclined to move him. But we have a younger, cheaper guy who actually plays defense from time to time waiting in the wings. Said player also had good numbers during the brief intervals he played with actual Top 6 players.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
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For the price we're talking at $4-$4.5m, even with his defensive warts Strome is a bargain on 1- or 2-year deal. We're talking 26-yo forward in his prime who's able to produce 50+ points, playing either center or wing with proven chemistry with one of your star players. At this point after getting ADA under contract and knowing exactly how much left the only way I see Gorton walk away is if Strome gets more via arbitration.
pld459666
Registered User
Again, to me, one penalty ever three games is not an issue i am worried about.
I also do not believe that every one of his 24 penalties was of the lazy variety.
Majority, possible.
Still, a non issue for me
Strome paced for 43 points in 82 games his first year as a Ranger. Nothing to sneeze at, nothing to write home about either.
However, he did play 81 games that season and he finished with 35 points. Pace isn’t quite fair to use in this equation. If a player averages 35 points a year, it doesn’t matter if they score 30 in the back half and 5 in the first; they still played the full year and scored 35 points.
He paced for 69 points with Panarin. Even if we use his post NYR pace of 43, 26 points is a significant jump. If we use his actual total of 35, it’s a 34 point jump. Moreover, if we look at historical averages, it’s even bigger. His last four seasons (including his first as a Ranger) were 28, 30, 34, 35. He then gets on a line with Panarin and has 59 in 70.
Chemistry can’t be discounted and obviously he and Panarin clicked. It was also a contract year and I’m sure if Strome had another 35 point season he was essentially done in the NHL. It’s also almost a certainty that Panarin takes a step back next year. If that happens, what happens to Strome’s production? If the pair goes cold and he’s moved to the third line, is he going to produce at all, considering his track record playing with anyone but Panarin? Is he defensively even passable enough to really be in a bottom six role?
Let’s say he maintained his 43 point pace from after the trade, rather than the year he just had. His numbers would look like: 28, 30, 34, 35, 43. No one would be talking about giving this guy 4M, and that’s without discussing play away from the puck. Even if we have him credit for his pace after the trade, it would be 28, 30, 34, 43, 43 and we still wouldn’t be having this conversation.
The fact is, whether he has chemistry with Panarin that can be easily replicated or not, he jumped from 35 in 81 the year before to pacing for 69 in 82. Thats virtually doubling his out put. The 33 in 63/43pace after the trade is a footnote worthy of consideration, but his stat line for the year prior is still 81 games played and 35 points.
Strome has a ton of deficiencies in his game. Trying to figure out if he has a truly unique chemistry with Panarin and can stay anywhere near a 69 point pace if brought back or if the massive jump in output was a fluke brought about by a career year from Panarin and Strome being in a contract year is probably the reason management has been so hesitant in this process, waited so long to qualify him and essentially openly shopped him. I’m inclined to say it is far more that management has serious doubts about the player and even committing one year at 4.5M to him than it is any concerns over the bonus cushion, etc. that has kept him unsigned.
However, he did play 81 games that season and he finished with 35 points. Pace isn’t quite fair to use in this equation. If a player averages 35 points a year, it doesn’t matter if they score 30 in the back half and 5 in the first; they still played the full year and scored 35 points.
He paced for 69 points with Panarin. Even if we use his post NYR pace of 43, 26 points is a significant jump. If we use his actual total of 35, it’s a 34 point jump. Moreover, if we look at historical averages, it’s even bigger. His last four seasons (including his first as a Ranger) were 28, 30, 34, 35. He then gets on a line with Panarin and has 59 in 70.
Chemistry can’t be discounted and obviously he and Panarin clicked. It was also a contract year and I’m sure if Strome had another 35 point season he was essentially done in the NHL. It’s also almost a certainty that Panarin takes a step back next year. If that happens, what happens to Strome’s production? If the pair goes cold and he’s moved to the third line, is he going to produce at all, considering his track record playing with anyone but Panarin? Is he defensively even passable enough to really be in a bottom six role?
Let’s say he maintained his 43 point pace from after the trade, rather than the year he just had. His numbers would look like: 28, 30, 34, 35, 43. No one would be talking about giving this guy 4M, and that’s without discussing play away from the puck. Even if we have him credit for his pace after the trade, it would be 28, 30, 34, 43, 43 and we still wouldn’t be having this conversation.
The fact is, whether he has chemistry with Panarin that can be easily replicated or not, he jumped from 35 in 81 the year before to pacing for 69 in 82. Thats virtually doubling his out put. The 33 in 63/43pace after the trade is a footnote worthy of consideration, but his stat line for the year prior is still 81 games played and 35 points.
Strome has a ton of deficiencies in his game. Trying to figure out if he has a truly unique chemistry with Panarin and can stay anywhere near a 69 point pace if brought back or if the massive jump in output was a fluke brought about by a career year from Panarin and Strome being in a contract year is probably the reason management has been so hesitant in this process, waited so long to qualify him and essentially openly shopped him. I’m inclined to say it is far more that management has serious doubts about the player and even committing one year at 4.5M to him than it is any concerns over the bonus cushion, etc. that has kept him unsigned.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
I'm over the Strome convo tbh
The Rangers have no better options at the moment so they're going to bring him back unless he manages to get a better offer from another team
It'll be a 1 year commitment and the team is going to dump him for picks at the deadline whenever it happens.
I don't like Strome but I just can't get worked up about it anymore when it's obvious the Rangers think the same.
The Rangers have no better options at the moment so they're going to bring him back unless he manages to get a better offer from another team
It'll be a 1 year commitment and the team is going to dump him for picks at the deadline whenever it happens.
I don't like Strome but I just can't get worked up about it anymore when it's obvious the Rangers think the same.
SA16
Sixstring
I'm not sure why you try to make it sound less bad by saying "one penalty every three games." If you said a player scored "one goal every three games" is that something you wouldn't be concerned about? That's almost a 30 goal scorer! And "one penalty every three games" is equivalent to giving up ~5-6 additional goals versus no penalties.
I mean at the same time people rant and rave about needing good faceoff players when the difference between a 55% faceoff player and a 45% faceoff player is 1-2 faceoff wins per game for top players. The difference between a good 4C on faceoffs (say Pierre Edouard Bellemare who won 53% of his faceoffs taking 11.4 per game) and a bad one (like Riley Nash who won 47.9% of his faceoffs taking 8 faceoffs per game) is slightly more than one faceoff win every three game yet people are all about needing a good depth center who can win a faceoff. If one doesn't matter then the other logically cannot either. I do not know your opinion on faceoffs this is just a general comment.
I'd bring him back for one year anyway but trying to mitigating the negative effect of his penalties by using language is a bit weird.
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The 43 points make for pretty solid second line production, no?
If we are going to start to discount his points with Panarin, then we need start to discuss assists, no? Unless we are going to start to believe that any schlep can simply lob the puck to Panarin's side of the ice and he will get to it anywhere and it will result in a goal. Which does not explain why Fast's assist totals were not though the roof. What is also being lost in translation, is no accounting for Strome finding a home and a coaching staff that he trusts and trusts him. He was a former 5th overall pick, so he is not without offensive talent. Maybe Edmonton was simply not for him. Maybe chemistry and mental comfort counts.
No, no one believes that he is suddenly a 70 point player. Nor does anyone believe that he is in the long term plans. But a $4,5m contract for a player who can give second line production, is only 26, and has proven chemistry with your best player which allows management to deploy other top players on a completely different line? Sounds like a bargain.
Do I want him here for 5 years? No. To me a two year deal is ideal, but at the right price, I would do one or two more years. You can always trade him or move him over or down.
Rongomania
Registered User
Can't wait for Chytil to take the next step so we never have to hear about Strome ever again.
He paced for 45-50 points in a full season back in 18-19. That's not "not" effective.
Tob
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2017
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The longer this takes the better it is for our cap hit. Management is sticking to their guns and not offering more. Strome will buckle before arbitration if management moves up by $100,000. There's barely any FA money left. Hoffman is begging for teams to move money to sign him. His fit and role in NY is undeniable. Family and kids and all. This will be the one bargain deal for us this off season.
I did allude to chemistry a couple of times and state that it can’t be discounted. But Panarin us unlikely to pace for over 100 points again (as several have said, last year may have been the best we’ll ever see from Mika and Bread) and Strome’s points will follow suit. What he brings is proportionally less and less valuable the further away from 60 points he gets. I don’t inherently disagree with anything you’re saying, but I don’t know that it’s as much of a bargain as you propose when management is hesitant to give it to him and no one else in the league was willing to pick him up. There’s something about Strome that virtually no one wanted him, even for a pick, when he was coming off 59 points in 70 games. Despite his age. Despite his draft pedigree. I have no doubt Strome will be our 2C for most of next year and that’s fine, I was really just hopping into the conversation because it’s October, there’s no hockey and I just wanted to participate. Strome seems to be viewed unfavorably by NHL personnel. He’s like a PA Parenteau. Despite production teams are reluctant to view him as a legitimate top six player because of the totality of his game.
As an aside, he’s 27.3 years old
That’s not true.
He paced for 43 points, in his time with the Rangers. But he didn’t miss games that year, he simply played them with a different team. He played the full year and finished with 35 points. It’s also fairly generous to say he paced for 45-50 when you have to round up to get him to 43, and that’s if you’re ignoring the games he played in Edmonton where he paced for about 7 points.
Like with everything, I think that the truth is in the middle. 70 point player? No. 40ish? Why not? And that is more than good enough for most second lines in the league. And at say $4.5, that makes is a pretty good bargain. Especially when you consider what he morphs to when with Panarin. I am just not sure of who you bringing in that will be both cheaper and produce as much.
And I agree about ZBad and Panarin. Last year may well be their top year ever. Hopefully not, but good chance.
Also, it may not be that nobody wanted him, but more of a) nobody was willing to part with whatever it is that Gorton wanted and b) Gorton & JD did not find alternatives that appealing. At least for now.
LD, feel free to jump into any conversation. So let it be written........
OopsAs an aside, he’s 27.3 years old
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