Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXI

[Off Sides]

Yes they were.

But the front office isn't just going to sit around and hope everything falls into place and that every prospect fills the holes sooner rather than later.

Even if Chytil is eventually a second line center, he isn't one now.

Even if Kakko is eventually a first line RW, he isn't one now. Same for Lafreniere, or Miller, or other players on the roster.

I think the biggest challenge is, a lot of fans really aren't comfortable doing any moves. The odds of finding something realistic they are comfortable with is pretty slim. Or in some cases, the guys they want, either aren't as good as they believe, or simply aren't available.

So why not wait? This is not just sooner, this is before they even draft #1, before Kakko has played well in the NHL for any extended period of time.

Kakko is 19, Laf will be 18. They have plenty of time to wait and see what options come about.

Unless of course we are talking about using the prime years left of their older players, the ones who are in some case 9-10 years older than 18 and 19.

The Rangers hybrid method of team building here is more likely to lead to them looking at several retools over the next 5-10 years to get to where they want to go which will turn out longer than if they'd just allow for the 18-19 year old to enter their primes.

 

[Levitate]

I do not think that there is any expectation that Fox is going to touch what DeAngelo did last year.

And again, how can you look at DeAngelo's ice time and proclaim him simply as a third pair guy?

I hate to use terms like "expect" but I think Fox can absolutely touch with ADA did last year. Fox was on pace for almost 50 points as a mostly 21 year old rookie with almost no 1st PP time and did it while putting up some fantastic analytics numbers. DeAngelo was in the AHL when he was 21

But we're really looking at the long term here and it boils down to who are we gonna keep? I don't mind if the Rangers decide to sit pat on this whole situation for another year but at some point a decision between ADA and Fox is probably on the horizon and ultimately Fox is the younger and more complete player.

That said, if you move DeAngelo you better be making the right move because yeah guys who can put up those numbers are special in their own way.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Yes they were.

But the front office isn't just going to sit around and hope everything falls into place and that every prospect fills the holes sooner rather than later.

Even if Chytil is eventually a second line center, he isn't one now.

Even if Kakko is eventually a first line RW, he isn't one now. Same for Lafreniere, or Miller, or other players on the roster.

I think the biggest challenge is, a lot of fans really aren't comfortable doing any moves. The odds of finding something realistic they are comfortable with is pretty slim. Or in some cases, the guys they want, either aren't as good as they believe, or simply aren't available.

at this point the "rebuild" part is basically over. They just drafted #2 overall last year and will draft #1 overall this year. They have a goalie who looks to be able to carry on the franchise, they have top level players at forward right now, they have a guy coming off of a calder worthy (even if he didn't get a ton of recognition for it) season on defense, they've got talent and blue chips in the system...

Basically what I'm saying is that the rebuild part of acquiring assets and talent is pretty much done here in a lot of ways and yes the team is trying to put the pieces together to be competitive.

The thing with the salary cap is that there aren't distinct stages of like "Ok hoard talent until you've drafted an entire team and then deploy them all at once and win the cup!"
You can't just wait around for everything to click together at once, it's a moving process of getting the talent, developing it, adding to it, and building a team around it. The Rangers are trying to build their team for the next 3-5 years and beyond and they rightfully want to be competitive in that time.

Exactly. Between you, you've captured what I think a lot of people are missing about these potential moves.

 

[Avery16]

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I don't think the most people in the sport love ADA quite as much as some fans do

If we're being honest, this is the least shocking thing you've said today

I think it's obvious

 

[Levitate]

It can, but it doesn't really seem to be all over the map when you talk to people around the league of the Rangers.

It's weird, but I think he's almost the anti-Pionk in the sense that this one of those times where I don't think the most people in the sport love ADA quite as much as some fans do.

the "offensive defenseman who is small and weak defensively" is not a good label for the NHL I suspect

 

[Edge]

So why not wait? This is not just sooner, this is before they even draft #1, before Kakko has played well in the NHL for any extended period of time.

Kakko is 19, Laf will be 18. They have plenty of time to wait and see what options come about.

Unless of course we are talking about using the prime years left of their older players, the ones who are in some case 9-10 years older than 18 and 19.

The Rangers hybrid method of team building here is more likely to lead to them looking at several retools over the next 5-10 years to get to where they want to go which will turn out longer than if they'd just allow for the 18-19 year old to enter their primes.

Depends on what you mean by waiting.

Wait for what?

There is no hybrid model.

We literally have the deepest prospect in hockey, or at least one that is in consideration. And that's before this draft.

We've literally traded or bought all but one or two people who were on the roster five years ago.

It doesn't change if we keep every single pick for the next five years, you're always going to have to make trades and find guys who bridge gaps, or find guys that you can' find via the draft.

I don't want us to confuse a normal process, even for a rebuilding team, with a hybrid model. I think those are two very different things.

 

[GAGLine]

So why not wait? This is not just sooner, this is before they even draft #1, before Kakko has played well in the NHL for any extended period of time.

Kakko is 19, Laf will be 18. They have plenty of time to wait and see what options come about.

Unless of course we are talking about using the prime years left of their older players, the ones who are in some case 9-10 years older than 18 and 19.

The Rangers hybrid method of team building here is more likely to lead to them looking at several retools over the next 5-10 years to get to where they want to go which will turn out longer than if they'd just allow for the 18-19 year old to enter their primes.

If there's a deal that they believe makes the team better, then why wouldn't they do it? If Kakko, Chytil, Laf or any other player makes someone expendable, that's a good problem to have.

 

[Avery16]

Value is relative. And Flames’ fans would feel the opposite.

f*** them Flames fans.

 

[Thirty One]

Dominoes!

 

[Inferno]

Put me in the pro monahan and hanafin camp.

 

[Levitate]

and again you don't just collect talent and then one day say "it's done!" and you're a contender.

the teams that have had sustained success have gone through plenty of retools during that time. you don't just get a big group of guys together and magically keep them together for the next deacde. The best you do is get that important core group together and then continue building around them as your needs change. Going forward that's going to be guys like Lafreniere, Kakko, Fox, Shesterkin, etc, but IMO you also need tos tart building the basis of a winning team for those guys to develop in or you end up like Edmonton or something where the top talented players just kept getting thrown to the wolves and expected to turn it all around by themselves based on draft position and talent alone

 

[IronBloodedLion]

Out of all the RFA’s out there that could get an offer sheet, the only 2 I think would be really worth it are Pierre Luc-Dubois or Mikhail Sergachev. I think PLD resigns in Columbus no matter what, but if I’m Gorton I absolutely put a call in about Sergachev.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I'd love to know the reasoning the front office thinks Monahan fills such a big need. He's better than Strome offensively no doubt, but he's not an upgrade on defense. He's bigger than Strome, but I wouldn't say he's a physical player.

The team was 5th in the league in goals for last year, I have a hard time comprehending how they look at this and say "yes we need a guy who scores more" at 2C.

 

[Kovalev27]

FlamesNation player evaluation: Noah Hanifin

Nice summary of his play. He struggled when paired with Hamonic, but flourished when paired with Andersson. Was kinda a tale of two different Hanifin's this year.

great write up thanks

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Hanifin is the portion of the proposal that really bothers me.

Monahan isn't really a fit, but at least he can score. Hanifin is an empty soul who is skating around strictly based off of where he was drafted.

 

[JohnC]

You're going to need to toughen up if you're going to make it on this forum.

At this rate I half expect the jabronis here to trade me for some doof that posts on HFNYI

 

[True Blue]

I hate to use terms like "expect" but I think Fox can absolutely touch with ADA did last year. Fox was on pace for almost 50 points as a mostly 21 year old rookie with almost no 1st PP time and did it while putting up some fantastic analytics numbers. DeAngelo was in the AHL when he was 21

But we're really looking at the long term here and it boils down to who are we gonna keep? I don't mind if the Rangers decide to sit pat on this whole situation for another year but at some point a decision between ADA and Fox is probably on the horizon and ultimately Fox is the younger and more complete player.

That said, if you move DeAngelo you better be making the right move because yeah guys who can put up those numbers are special in their own way.

The Rangers have not had a defenseman put up 60 points in a very, very long time. To believe that they now have two, is a bit challenging.

I understand what is in the cards long term, but do not see the necessity to make that decision now. But yeah, if you are moving DeAngelo, you had better get it right or you are staring at Zubov on the 'Pens while looking at your own bench and seeing Robitaille.

 

[Edge]

I'd love to know the reasoning the front office thinks Monahan fills such a big need. He's better than Strome offensively no doubt, but he's not an upgrade on defense. He's bigger than Strome, but I wouldn't say he's a physical player.

The team was 5th in the league in goals for last year, I have a hard time comprehending how they look at this and say "yes we need a guy who scores more" at 2C.

I think they view him as more likely to sustain his production. I think they probably value his ability to score goals --- especially on a team that is adding more young playmaker types. I think they'd prefer to have him step up if Zibanejad goes on the shelf again. I think they might like the faceoff improvement there. They may believe his style is a better fit for where the roster is heading. Etc. etc.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I'd love to know the reasoning the front office thinks Monahan fills such a big need. He's better than Strome offensively no doubt, but he's not an upgrade on defense. He's bigger than Strome, but I wouldn't say he's a physical player.

The team was 5th in the league in goals for last year, I have a hard time comprehending how they look at this and say "yes we need a guy who scores more" at 2C.

IDGI either. Unless it's as rudimentary as the brass saying, Strome is not a 2C, Monahan is a 2C. But if that's the level of sophistication we treat our roster with, it's over before it's begun, and frankly, it can't be given how much talent we've amassed the last three years.

 

[Thirty One]

At this rate I half expect the jabronis here to trade me for some doof that posts on HFNYI

We would never trade you (within the division)

 

[Off Sides]

Depends on what you mean by waiting.

Wait for what?

There is no hybrid model.

We literally have the deepest prospect in hockey, or at least one that is in consideration. And that's before this draft.

We've literally traded or bought all but one or two people who were on the roster five years ago.

It doesn't change if we keep every single pick for the next five years, you're always going to have to make trades and find guys who bridge gaps, or find guys that you can' find via the draft.

I don't want us to confuse a normal process, even for a rebuilding team, with a hybrid model. I think those are two very different things.

Wait for Laf to be in the NHL so they can get a better read on what type of players would fit him best?

Kakko to play in the NHL beyond his less than stellar rookie season?

Wait for Chytil to either take or do not take the next step?

Wait to see if Fox can continue building on what he was doing last season?

Wait to see whatever else may shake loose given the current state of what is going on in the world and how the NHL may have to operate going forward?

Anyway, I'll just leave it as, I think the Rangers are at least a year ahead in their vision versus where their youth and prospects really are in their development.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

NHL player agent Allan Walsh sheds some light on this year and the next years moving forward and how that relates to players contracts and problems facing teams in regards to the cap.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I think they view him as more likely to sustain his production. I think they probably value his ability to score goals --- especially on a team that is adding more young playmaker types. I think they'd prefer to have him step up if Zibanejad goes on the shelf again. I think they might like the faceoff improvement there. They may believe his style is a better fit for where the roster is heading. Etc. etc.

Well in any trade it's a gamble how the player reacts and fits into the new scheme. I have a lot of faith in Gorton and the management at this point with how well they've identified talent, but count me as one who is very skeptical of Monahan.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I think they view him as more likely to sustain his production. I think they probably value his ability to score goals --- especially on a team that is adding more young playmaker types. I think they'd prefer to have him step up if Zibanejad goes on the shelf again. I think they might like the faceoff improvement there. They may believe his style is a better fit for where the roster is heading. Etc. etc.

Do you have the feeling that now that a deal could be approaching the finish line that both sides have sat back and are just sort of looking at what the league does? Or do you feel like they are keeping touch to try and work something out soon?