Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXI

[TheDirtyH]

I would be disgusted with the trade above.

If we want to become harder to play against, Hanifin accomplished the opposite of that.

See, you say something like this and it's responded to as though any trade involving DeAngelo or Buchnevich or whoever should be off the table.

Some of us aren't opposed to making moves, but we have major concerns about some of the moves proposed. Monahan/Hanafin for DeAngelo/Buchnevich would be a terrible trade for us IMO too. Not because you lose DeAngelo and Buchnevich, but because you do so with redundancies and without improving any of the roster's weaknesses in terms of it's results not it's roster slots.

 

[NYR Viper]

It’s about balancing the roster. And again, I suspect the Rangers view both Monahan and Hanifan differently than we do on the board. All we’ve been discussing this off-season has been whether or not the Rangers are going to address 2C and Trouba’s partner. It’s easy to see where the Rangers could believe this deal solves both of those issues in one fell swoop. And, as @Edge has repeatedly stressed, players are going to be moved that many fans are not going to be happy about giving up.

I see the attraction to the deal for sure and it's not that I dislike the players. It's the value of ADA + Buch

 

[True Blue]

I would be disgusted with the trade above.

If we want to become harder to play against, Hanifin accomplished the opposite of that.

Not sure that disgusted is the word, but somethings would be.....puzzling. Two soft players, after acknowledging that you need much more sand paper on the team?

 

[Edge]

It's HF boards.

ADA for a prospect with 30goal potential is fun and exciting.
ADA for an actual 30 goal NHL Center is bad

I get where a lot of hestitation comes from --- especially with ADA. I really do, so I can't dismiss it and say people are being foolish.

But ADA is a talented yet flawed player. And that means you're trading him for another talented yet flawed player, or you're trading him for future's.

I think people have this image of a better player coming back the other way, and I think part of the reason why fans are struggling to identify that player is because he might not exist.

Either you're looking at a flawed player who brings both good and not so good aspects, or you're looking at the type of guy that isn't being traded for ADA.

We don't want Lindholm. We don't want Monahan. We probably have exceeindly high expectations for Cirelli or his availability.

We want to improve things, but we don't want to give up anything of value. At some point, it just doesn't work that way.

 

[Off Sides]

I think they're going to try to be aggressive in the sense that they aren't expecting a top contender in the next 12 months, but they are expecting to move the dial and see progress.

And that means targeting a lot guys in their mid-20s, even it means moving guys in the late teens or early 20s.

They were seeing progress before covid ended the season, enough that they extended Kreider and self rented Fast. The 3 game playin should be seen as a super small sample size played against a team who's build was more advanced.

 

[Levitate]

Go watch Monahan's goals. They're not he snipe variety. theyre the garbage around the net variety. Majority of his goals are around the next. Rebounds, passes to the net front. 5' goals. Not 30 ft goals.

One thing that made Panarin work well with Strome in the regular season was they scored a lot off the rush. If Panarin plays with Monahan and Kakko, you're not giving Panarin anyone that can keep up with him. That line combo would need to change.

On the other hand that's exactly the kind of player the Rangers need when it comes to goal scoring...get in tight around the net, garbage goals, being in front, etc. They struggled to get in against Carolina, kept to the outside. You can't score everything off the rush all the time

Also also Strome is not a particulary fast skater either and I don't recall him blasting away with a lot of snipe goals.

 

[Kovalev27]

if fast comes back and Kakko can't beat him out for that top 6 spot, the problem isn't fast. over the years fast has ended up higher in the lineup because other players didn't get the job done. I don't think he has ever been the primary option for that role.

ehhhhhhhhhh that’s partially true to an extent imo. I do think coaches fall in love with his work ethic and defensive responsibility especially when you have a black hole in the middle like Strome that literally gets dummied out there every night defensively.

Kakko isn’t going to make that line better defensively no matter what he does

 

[TheDirtyH]

It's fine to say we need a top four defenseman and a 2c.

But in a literal sense, we already have both of those things. You have to be convinced or at least confident that Hanafin is a good bet to be a good top4 d for us, otherwise he's as much a top4 d as Skjei was for us or as much as Trouba has been a #1.

 

[Edge]

They were seeing progress before covid ended the season, enough that they extended Kreider and self rented Fast. The 3 game playin should be seen as a super small sample size played against a team who's build was more advanced.

Yes they were.

But the front office isn't just going to sit around and hope everything falls into place and that every prospect fills the holes sooner rather than later.

Even if Chytil is eventually a second line center, he isn't one now.

Even if Kakko is eventually a first line RW, he isn't one now. Same for Lafreniere, or Miller, or other players on the roster.

I think the biggest challenge is, a lot of fans really aren't comfortable doing any moves. The odds of finding something realistic they are comfortable with is pretty slim. Or in some cases, the guys they want, either aren't as good as they believe, or simply aren't available.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I'm totally fine moving Tony for Lindholm. Tony for Monahan I am very opposed too

 

[effen]

I would be disgusted with the trade above.

If we want to become harder to play against, Hanifin accomplished the opposite of that.

if that trade happens there's like 2 different domino sets that have to fall and I don't see them changing over THAT much of the roster, space or not.

I think the capspace they opened is based on the assumption a buncha guys won't be qualified who will be UFAs who wouldn't normally be. I find it hard to believe they're gonna blow the whole wad on mostly lateral moves for former high draft picks.

 

[JohnC]

Disturbing amount of trade ideas in this thread all of a sudden where we both A) give up the better player(s) & B) actively make the team worse in the process

 

[Avery16]

ADA for Monahan and Hanifin would be us paying a premium to facilitate a cap dump for Calgary. Not sure how this one even has legs.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I see the attraction to the deal for sure and it's not that I dislike the players. It's the value of ADA + Buch

Value is relative. And Flames’ fans would feel the opposite.

 

[Levitate]

I don't think I am going to understand or like much of what the Rangers do this off-season.

They seem to be looking at accelerating their rebuild right into a retool as soon as possible.

at this point the "rebuild" part is basically over. They just drafted #2 overall last year and will draft #1 overall this year. They have a goalie who looks to be able to carry on the franchise, they have top level players at forward right now, they have a guy coming off of a calder worthy (even if he didn't get a ton of recognition for it) season on defense, they've got talent and blue chips in the system...

Basically what I'm saying is that the rebuild part of acquiring assets and talent is pretty much done here in a lot of ways and yes the team is trying to put the pieces together to be competitive.

The thing with the salary cap is that there aren't distinct stages of like "Ok hoard talent until you've drafted an entire team and then deploy them all at once and win the cup!"
You can't just wait around for everything to click together at once, it's a moving process of getting the talent, developing it, adding to it, and building a team around it. The Rangers are trying to build their team for the next 3-5 years and beyond and they rightfully want to be competitive in that time.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I get where a lot of hestitation comes from --- especially with ADA. I really do, so I can't dismiss it and say people are being foolish.

But ADA is a talented yet flawed player. And that means you're trading him for another talented yet flawed player, or you're trading him for future's.

I think people have this image of a better player coming back the other way, and I think part of the reason why fans are struggling to identify that player is because he might not exist.

Either you're looking at a flawed player who brings both good and not so good aspects, or you're looking at the type of guy that isn't being traded for ADA.

We don't want Lindholm. We don't want Monahan. We probably have exceeindly high expectations for Cirelli or his availability.

We want to improve things, but we don't want to give up anything of value. At some point, it just doesn't work that way.

I never know who you're talking about in these posts.

I'd be fine with Lindholm and actually prefer him to Cirelli. I just don't want Monahan, or to a lesser extent Hanafin.

I believe I kicked off the ADA trade value talks many months ago with my DeAngelo for Tuch proposal. I was told at the time that was underselling ADA's value enormously. Given we resigned Kreider, I would hesitate for this deal now, but I wouldn't say no off the bat and I still think the value is pretty much a match.

 

[Polar Bear]

Monahan is a flawed player, but I can't help but facepalm when people try to argue Strome is almost as good as him.

 

[Levitate]

I think ADA's value is very good.

I'm not quite sure it's as high as some of our fans believe. And I say that somewhat hesitantly because I feel like the value some have in their mind is kind of...fuzzy.

In other words, I think people know what they don't want, but they don't necessarily know what they do want.

I don't think you can overlook DeAngelo's production if you're another team, but I do think you can say "well is he going to do it again next season? Is it because he played with Panarin? his defense is still shaky?" and depending on how much weight you put on different parts of that, the opinion on his worth can vary

 

[Off Sides]

Them acquiring Monahan is their way of saying "yeah we need to win before Lafreniere's contract comes due" without actually saying it out loud lol

And doing so before they even see him play in the NHL.

I can understand them wanting to improve, looking for the right long term solutions. Options come and go. Yet if the options right now are less than ideal they may as well just stay with the less than ideal options they already have on short term trade-able contracts as they are cheaper both in cap hit and in not moving out assets beyond them.

The options will or will not improve, let's see, the NHL does not even know how next season is going to work. More and more teams will likely be losing money. There is going to be a flat cap. Sure seems to me like there are bound to be other options coming around. Teams right now are in damage control, they are prioritizing what they think they need to keep and what they can let go of. Being in on the first round of players deemed as expendable because one is worried other options may not become available seems like a dodgy strategy to me.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Am I way off base in saying that if the deal is:

ADA + Buch for Monahan + Hanifan

That I would be expecting an add coming from Calgary, not the Rangers?

Personally, I'd be surprised.

ADA has had a run of a little more than one year outstanding offensively, is still challenged defensively, and comes with some level of baggage (sure, we can debate how much, but the fact that there's some is undeniable). Buch, for as much as I love him and think he has the potential to be a 60+ point winger as soon as next year, has never scored more than the 46 points (which extrapolates to 55 over a full season). Also, ADA needs a new contract this year (and if you want to lock him long term, it's going to cost) and Buch'll need one next.

Monahan, meanwhile, averages 30-30-60, exceeded a PPG two years ago, and is a former #6OA. Hanafin has been more up and down over his career, but is also 2 years younger, a defenseman (and we all know they take longer), a former #5OA, who has shown enough in spurts to earn a 6-year deal coming off his ELC. And of course, they are both locked up long-term (3 and 4 years, respectively – both beyond the flat cap era).

I think the value is fairly close, but honestly, I'd expect the Rangers to add some.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Am I the only one who doesn’t like Fast? The guy has hands of stone, I can’t count the number of times he was parked right in front of the net and it was wide open but he missed because he can hardly raise the puck. Offence dies on his stick, and he’s the one guy whenever he gets a breakaway and I look up and notice oh it’s just Fast LOL he’s not scoring, he’s the least dangerous guy on the team offensively

Been skimming through this thread so I’m not totally caught up, but have you missed like 25% of @Kovalev27 ’s posts?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Monahan is a flawed player, but I can't help but facepalm when people try to argue Strome is almost as good as him.

“Impacts” tho

 

[Edge]

I don't think you can overlook DeAngelo's production if you're another team, but I do think you can say "well is he going to do it again next season? Is it because he played with Panarin? his defense is still shaky?" and depending on how much weight you put on different parts of that, the opinion on his worth can vary

It can, but it doesn't really seem to be all over the map when you talk to people around the league of the Rangers.

It's weird, but I think he's almost the anti-Pionk in the sense that this one of those times where I don't think the most people in the sport love ADA quite as much as some fans do.

 

[HonestGabe]

ADA for Monahan and Hanifin would be us paying a premium to facilitate a cap dump for Calgary. Not sure how this one even has legs.

Neither of those players are cap dumps.

That's as ridiculous as fans of other teams telling us Zibanejad is a 2C or that Kakko would need to come back in a trade for Danault.

If the deal were Tony for Monahan AND Hanifin without us adding an asset, we would NOT be paying a premium, we'd be receiving a premium.

And I love Tony. But c'mon...

 

[Thirty One]

Disturbing amount of trade ideas in this thread all of a sudden where we both A) give up the better player(s) & B) actively make the team worse in the process

You're going to need to toughen up if you're going to make it on this forum.