Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LIV

[rangers1314]

Shattenkirk will eat space next year, but beyond that I think the impact is fairly negiligible. I also don't know if it profoundly influences what the Rangers are likely to do anyway.

It's one of those things that really generates more conversation online with fans than anywhere else. But I just don't see it serving as a trajectory changer.

So...how was your evening of wine and conversation?

 

[Edge]

So...how was your evening of wine and conversation?

Well the evening was only one person, outside the Rangers sphere.

Today was lunch with a group of five (including myself). It's actually not over, I am just taking a few minutes to respond to emails and decided to pop on here.

But it's been good. Really interesting.

 

[haohmaru]

The Shattenkirk buyout was a strategic decision after the Rangers traded for Trouba and Fox. Had we kept Shattenkirk and didn't trade for Trouba, who would have killed penalties and be the shut-down guy for key matchups? The buyout was absolutely the right decision. It provided an opportunity for Fox and DeAngelo to play more sheltered minutes instead of going up against the opposing teams top line players and they flourished. The resulting cap hit is only really relevant for this upcoming season, it is negligible for the following two, and it does not put us in a situation where we are forced to move a key player for spare parts because we are up against the cap ceiling.

Meh, you didn't have to trade for Trouba and instead of not exposing ADA and Fox to PK/key minutes, you've lofted huge expectations on Trouba that he couldn't possibly meet.

I mean, it's hard to know what the roster would've looked if Shattenkirk wouldn't have been bought out. Pionk traded anyway? Veteran RD to fill a role on the PK? Possibly.

My issue here isn't with Trouba it's with buyouts like this costing us dearly for years. Sure, you can just look past next year and say the following years aren't that bad but the point is that next year is REALLY bad and it could cost us roster players because there's not enough money to go around.

I get the other side of the argument. I really do. It's just not what I would've done for a team that wasn't expected to do anything, anyway, for a few years.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Well the evening was only one person, outside the Rangers sphere.

Today was lunch with a group of five (including myself). It's actually not over, I am just taking a few minutes to respond to emails and decided to pop on here.

But it's been good. Really interesting.

Spill it.

 

[Edge]

Spill it.

Haha, there's a lot. For time purposes, before I have to hop off. Is there anything in particular you want to know?

 

[haohmaru]

After this upcoming season, he counts for $1.4M for 2021-22 and 2022-23. How is that profound?

Well, yeah, if you ignore next years 6+M cost, 13.5% of your entire cap for the entire year, I guess it looks pretty good.

 

[rangers1314]

Haha, there's a lot. For time purposes, before I have to hop off. Is there anything in particular you want to know?

Any word on FA/trade targets? Teams they’ve been speaking to?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Haha, there's a lot. For time purposes, before I have to hop off. Is there anything in particular you want to know?

Any Hank news?

 

[JimmyG89]

Hayes is only a fit now because we got the #1 pick. That's the only reason. Everyone is backseat GMing saying we should have kept Hayes.

He makes more that Kreider and I'm not sold on him being effective throughout the deal. He's already not the greatest skater in a league only getting faster. He's not as skilled as other guys that fit his mold that have survived the speed increases. He's nowhere near as talented as guys like Thornton or Kopitar, which fit his size/skating profile.

Kreider, even losing a step has fantastic speed and size. You could see in 4-5 years someone like a Jason Chimera type. His deal is much more palatable than Hayes.

We'll find the 2C for this group and it won't come at the cost of 7M a season for a guy that will be on the other side of 30 very soon. We went through this with Stepan. We knew he was going to need to be moved. Hayes has more size, but the skating is pretty close.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Haha, there's a lot. For time purposes, before I have to hop off. Is there anything in particular you want to know?

What is the #1 priority for improving the big roster? We all have our opinions here, but what does the team actually think? Not asking for specific names (even if they have them.)

also, what did you have for lunch?

 

[Krams]

Well, yeah, if you ignore next years 6+M cost, 13.5% of your entire cap for the entire year, I guess it looks pretty good.

We're in fine shape for next year. Plenty of options. Who are you worried about losing?

Edit: his hit for next year is not 13.5% of the entire cap, 7.4%

 

[Graves94]

Really don't understand what the fascination with Dvorak is all about, a soft player, with 3rd line production. The only upside, is that he's signed for 5 more years at $4.5M per.
I would rather go after Max Domi. One year older than Dvorak and is an RFA. Was making $3.15 this year and is expected to be traded after the emergence of KK and Suzuki.
Domi is feisty and agitates, something this team lacks, but can also produce. Over the past 2 years, he's produced 116pts, more than PL Dubois (113), Couture (109) and I know he's a winger, Laine (113). He did this on an anemic offensive team, 2 years ago had 72 pts on the second line and this year had 44 pts, mostly on the 3rd line. Was used on the fourth line in the PO's.
Questions are, how much/long do we sign him for and what will it take to get him. Habs desperately looking for help on the wings...

 

[Edge]

Meh, you didn't have to trade for Trouba and instead of not exposing ADA and Fox to PK/key minutes, you've lofted huge expectations on Trouba that he couldn't possibly meet.

I mean, it's hard to know what the roster would've looked if Shattenkirk wouldn't have been bought out. Pionk traded anyway? Veteran RD to fill a role on the PK? Possibly.

My issue here isn't with Trouba it's with buyouts like this costing us dearly for years. Sure, you can just look past next year and say the following years aren't that bad but the point is that next year is REALLY bad and it could cost us roster players because there's not enough money to go around.

I get the other side of the argument. I really do. It's just not what I would've done for a team that wasn't expected to do anything, anyway, for a few years.

To you point above, I definitely think Pionk and Shattenkirk, with our without Trouba, were probably going to be the odd men out. Whether it was age, injuries, upside, redundancy when it came to size and role, etc., I think if it wasn't Trouba it was going to be someone else.

Likewise, with or without Shattenkirk's salary on the books next year, I think ADA and some other guys would still be candidates to get moved. I think that exists independently of Shattenkirk.

But I strongly believe that Trouba is vital to ADA and Fox being put in positions where they could grow and be utilized favorably. And truthfully, I have no problem if one or both become more dangerous, or even better defensemen than Trouba. Because Trouba, even as the Rangers "third best" right defenseman, will still have a critical role to play because he brings something different from ADA and Fox, as well as Lundkvist, Shattenkirk, Keane, Pionk or any of the other alternative options we had/have for that position.

I'm perfectly fine if 4 or 5 years from now a 30 something year old Trouba's role is to help wear the opposition down while one or two of Fox, ADA and Lundkvist do their thing. To me, that would still be money and resources well spent.

 

[Edge]

Any word on FA/trade targets? Teams they’ve been speaking to?

They'll definitely be keeping an eye on Dunn and Brodin. Lindholm is still someone they'd love to pursue.

Don't believe Domi, Strome are players of interest for them.

 

[Edge]

Any Hank news?

Most are convinced he's done as a Ranger.

50/50 on him retiring.

People I talked to didn't think Frolunda was a first choice. The family just came back stateside. The belief is that they prefer to remain in North America.

 

[JimmyG89]

They'll definitely be keeping an eye on Dunn and Brodin. Lindholm is still someone they'd love to pursue.

Assuming this is Hampus Lindholm since he's grouped with other LHD?

 

[Leetch3]

They'll definitely be keeping an eye on Dunn and Brodin. Lindholm is still someone they'd love to pursue.

Don't believe Domi, Strome are players of interest for them.

Both lindholms?

Stroke getting traded?

 

[Edge]

What is the #1 priority for improving the big roster? We all have our opinions here, but what does the team actually think? Not asking for specific names (even if they have them.)

also, what did you have for lunch?

LD is probably the position they think they might have the better odds of improving. Center is an option as well, but might not have as clear or easy of a path.

 

[Edge]

Assuming this is Hampus Lindholm since he's grouped with other LHD?

Both lindholms?

Stroke getting traded?

I have to remember to specify. I meant Elias Lindholm.

Rangers will gauge interest on Strome.

 

[NYSPORTS]

And I think if we had a time machine to do it all over again, people would still be bitching about Shattenkirk, still bitching about Pionk, still bitching about Hayes, and most likely not even able to bitch about our short playoff series.

Shattenkirk has some nice minutes but he’s literally one of the guys who blends in on very deep and talented roster. He doesn’t do the heavy lifting on that defense and on a Rangers team he would be greatly exposed b/c there isn’t as much talent. His big dead money number is next season and then pretty light. Add in the three dinosaurs the Rangers are employing and that’s a lot of dead money.

Covid and not signing Hayes likely resulted in lucking out for Laf. Otherwise, the Rangers would have made the playoffs with no shot at a lottery.

Down the road, the Kreider contract which doesn’t include a full NTC may really help.

 

[gravey9]

Haha, there's a lot. For time purposes, before I have to hop off. Is there anything in particular you want to know?

What's the plan with #22?

 

[Ghost of jas]

What's the plan with #22?

They're not going to retire it in honor of Mike Gartner.

 

[Edge]

Shattenkirk has some nice minutes but he’s literally one of the guys who blends in on very deep and talented roster. He doesn’t do the heavy lifting on that defense and on a Rangers team he would be greatly exposed b/c there isn’t as much talent. His big dead money number is next season and then pretty light.

Covid and not signing Hayes likely resulted in lucking out for Laf. Otherwise, the Rangers would have made the playoffs with no shot at a lottery.

Down the road, the Kreider contract which doesn’t include a full NTC may really help.

I think Tampa has done decent to good job of allowing certain guys to blend in, if not succeed because of the other roster elements they have in place.

I would keep this in mind several years down the line, because if the Rangers roster comes into focus and lives up to its potential, you're almost certainly going to a similar approach taken by the Rangers.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Both lindholms?

Stroke getting traded?

Interesting autocorrect there.

 

[Fitzy]

I honestly don't think this roster looks better with Shattenkirk, Fox and ADA all in the same lineup --- not by a longshot. I think Trouba, for some of the grief he seems to generate, is a big reason why ADA and Fox were in situations where they could succeed. Not all that dissimilar to how Pionk is in a situation where he is more likely to succeed in Winnipeg.

Beyond that, keeping Pionk and having one of the quartet of him, Fox, ADA and Shattenkirk move to the left side would not have result in equal success from any of those guys, and IMO, would only further cut into the success we experienced.

As for Hayes, I don't really see a long-term solution. While I think we'd be stronger down the middle in the short term, I think the overall result would've been less than what we collectively saw this year. Especially if we're talking about keeping the defensive corps from above. That's an overall net loss.

And I think if we had a time machine to do it all over again, people would still be bitching about Shattenkirk, still bitching about Pionk, still bitching about Hayes, and most likely not even able to bitch about our short playoff series.

I think you can get away with one offensive and two two-way defensemen on one side, but two offensive dmen and one two-way D is a lot more challenging. Don't think a team with Shattenkirk AND DeAngelo would be in a good spot defensively.

At least Trouba PKs and Fox will likely PK a lot more as his career progresses.

Also, for as unfortunate as the Shattenkirk cap turned out to be, the worst of his penalty is next (Probably shortened) season, and we are still a year away from really rolling into competitiveness. It becomes only about league minimum cap penalty after that. This is why I don't want to buy out Hank- our dead cap goes down to only 2.5 million after next season if we just ride out the Smith, Staal, Henrik situation for another year and don't jump the gun.