Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part L

[GoAwayPanarin]

Good that means Chytil has time to prove Duguay wrong

Wat?

 

[Chytilmania]

Sarcasm is lost on the internet and for that I apologize. On a serious note, and this is the hill i'm willing to die on: DeAngelo's offensive production is not sustainable without the continued defensive liabilities he creates when he's on the ice (regardless of whether it's with Staal, Hajek or Fox). I went through each of his points from this season via the 8 min condensed games that the NHL puts out on youtube. By my count, 29 out of his 53 points this season could have been created by any NHL-level defenseman (2nd assists where he legitimately did nothing other than wrap the puck around the boards, or "get-the-puck-to-Panarin/Zibanejad" plays - is there an advanced metric for this).

There are moments when he's incredible (the 5-point game against the Devils is one of the all-time great performances by a rangers defenseman) but he's not 5M+ long-term contract worthy in my opinion.

Hawaii is in lockdown so I'm going to put together a nice little montage of Tony "Literally Cale Makar" DeAngelo over the weekend

Should we knock Carlson because of "get-the-puck-to-Ovi" plays?

 

[Rangers394]

The news that Kravtsov will be spending the season in the KHL this year just furthers my belief that we need to keep Buch. Not that y'all didn't already know that but still

That has nothing to do with Buch

 

[UnSandvich]

That has nothing to do with Buch

There were quite a few people suggesting that Kravtsov coming in would make Buch expendable. Which is kinda silly because Buch right now is what we hope Kravtsov can develop into, a young good Top 6 F

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The news that Kravtsov will be spending the season in the KHL this year just furthers my belief that we need to keep Buch. Not that y'all didn't already know that but still

We don't.

If the report is true, all this does is push me closer towards wanting to move Kravtsov.

 

[UnSandvich]

We don't.

If the report is true, all this does is push me closer towards wanting to move Kravtsov.

Eh, I don't really agree with that. This coming season in the KHL, the next season hopefully on the 3rd line. Maybe move up the lineup if he earns his way up at some point beyond. Meanwhile, sign Buch for 4.5x4 or 5, and if Kravtsov makes him expendable, then you move him

 

[Rangers394]

There were quite a few people suggesting that Kravtsov coming in would make Buch expendable. Which is kinda silly because Buch right now is what we hope Kravtsov can develop into, a young good Top 6 F

Yeah but our season isn't starting until who knows when. Kravstov needs to play and get games in

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Wait people are really freaking out over Kravtsov going to the KHL? So we’d rather him just sit around for 7 months with no hockey?

 

[Irishguy42]

I wonder how much it would take to get Dunn from STL...

Hajek/Reunanen + CAR 1st?

 

[Ola]

Can we wait until Quinn has a complete hockey team before we roast him? You can't say he doesn't have a clear plan when he's got fillers and worn out guys taking up a lot of his roster. Until quinn has decent players he can't execute his system the way he wants it. It starts with our left side D, it needs to be atleast adequate. Our top 6 needs a ready Kakko and depending on how Strome looks next season maybe a 2c. Ive said it from the beginning of this that we won't compete until Lundqvist, Smith and Staal are gone. Lafrienierre might push them a bit next year but i don't think it wil amount to much more than a playoff spot. Whoever has this team in 2022 is going to look like a genius, the same way AV looks great now that Philly has depth and finally a goalie.

He hasn't done anything to lose his job though. I don't know how you don't give him a chance to fix what isn't working. There is still a ton of AV influence with the way the team plays, personnel, etc. A lot of what plagued this team structurally are the same things that Ruff's teams have struggled with and we know he was an influence here (to what extent? we'll find out.)

I do think that we're nearing the end of his stay in NY unless he makes some pretty drastic changes, but I can't justify cutting him loose before he even has the opportunity to make them.

I know, but these excuses just don’t fly for me in this specific case.

For example, I can basically guarantee that if you have such a young and inexperienced, as well as offensively biased, roster as DQ had, many coaches would not even remotely consider — not — having a 4th line that could provide some relief. DQ decided to put a D on his 4th line lol and played that guy there a ton despite the fact that he totally wrecked that line’s ability to play hockey. Everyone we brought up from HFD sucked next to Smith, funny that the first guy we brought up after Smith was removed from forward (PDG) did perfectly OK. You can always trade for depth on a 4th line. Work waivers.

Look, we can discuss these details to length forever, but nothing nobody says can convince me that DQ didn’t make significant blunders over the course of last season in the bigger picture.

A bigger part of this is also DQs message to media after games. His biggest beef was over passing and ineffectiveness offensively. Look, that was not this team’s biggest problem. It seems like we could have played those late games against Philly 100x over without win one. That is a game plan issue.

DQ must do a lot better job next season if he is going to keep his job. He is obviously just very far from having the understanding of what it takes to be successful in this league compared to the guys in charge for many of the other teams. But he will of course improve their. It’s not like it’s genetics. Getting him assistants will be really important.

To be clear, I don’t mind having him around for another year. But management must be convinced that he can get the job done or a change should be done today. It’s by far the worst of two worlds if DQ is fired 2-3 months in.

 

[UnSandvich]

Yeah but our season isn't starting until who knows when. Kravstov needs to play and get games in

Yeah, to be clear, I'm totally good with him playing in the KHL.

 

[Kovalev27]

So everyone saw that this is a loan and he can be recalled when the season is determined right? This isn’t Lias Andersson

kid hasn’t played since March no reason to sit another 4 months

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

So everyone saw that this is a loan and he can be recalled when the season is determined right? This isn’t Lias Andersson

kid hasn’t played since March no reason to sit another 4 months

Twist!

 

[Kovalev27]

I’ll trust Brooks Who clearly reported otherwise on that over this random tweet

Kravtsov doesn’t belong to Traktor. They’re doing them a favor

 

[kovazub94]

He hasn't done anything to lose his job though. I don't know how you don't give him a chance to fix what isn't working. There is still a ton of AV influence with the way the team plays, personnel, etc. A lot of what plagued this team structurally are the same things that Ruff's teams have struggled with and we know he was an influence here (to what extent? we'll find out.)

I do think that we're nearing the end of his stay in NY unless he makes some pretty drastic changes, but I can't justify cutting him loose before he even has the opportunity to make them.

Exactly. Overall his Rangers team met expectations and their struggles are those that you’d expect from one of the youngest teams in the league.

 

[Kovalev27]

 

[kovazub94]

There were quite a few people suggesting that Kravtsov coming in would make Buch expendable. Which is kinda silly because Buch right now is what we hope Kravtsov can develop into, a young good Top 6 F

In a redraft for his year Buchnevich is pretty close to the spot where Kravtsov was taken. It took Buch 3 full seasons prior to becoming a player we saw this season (and Buch continuing to develop, toward the end of the season was better than what he was at the start).

I bet those posters that call Buchnevich expendable now while circling Kravtsov into the lineup will be the first to start calling him a bust or AAAA player or 3rd line winger ceiling or something similarly silly.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I know, but these excuses just don’t fly for me in this specific case.

For example, I can basically guarantee that if you have such a young and inexperienced, as well as offensively biased, roster as DQ had, many coaches would not even remotely consider — not — having a 4th line that could provide some relief. DQ decided to put a D on his 4th line lol and played that guy there a ton despite the fact that he totally wrecked that line’s ability to play hockey. Everyone we brought up from HFD sucked next to Smith, funny that the first guy we brought up after Smith was removed from forward (PDG) did perfectly OK. You can always trade for depth on a 4th line. Work waivers.

Look, we can discuss these details to length forever, but nothing nobody says can convince me that DQ didn’t make significant blunders over the course of last season in the bigger picture.

A bigger part of this is also DQs message to media after games. His biggest beef was over passing and ineffectiveness offensively. Look, that was not this team’s biggest problem. It seems like we could have played those late games against Philly 100x over without win one. That is a game plan issue.

DQ must do a lot better job next season if he is going to keep his job. He is obviously just very far from having the understanding of what it takes to be successful in this league compared to the guys in charge for many of the other teams. But he will of course improve their. It’s not like it’s genetics. Getting him assistants will be really important.

To be clear, I don’t mind having him around for another year. But management must be convinced that he can get the job done or a change should be done today. It’s by far the worst of two worlds if DQ is fired 2-3 months in.

Yes but how many guys outside of Gettinger came up and looked good on the 4th line?

I'll keep on saying this because its become abundantly clear to me, playing Smith at forward was more about Staal than anything else. PDG played most of his minutes with Chytil and Kakko, so not exactly 4th line time there. We didn't have the type of players who fit onto a 4th line aside from Lemieux and Fast, with the latter being someone you can plug in anywhere and he did a good job with Panarin.

I expect this to be an area that 100000% gets addressed this offseason as management isn't dumb and its the easiest thing to take care of. The system is a much, much, much bigger issue than the players (aside from Staal, who will be a detriment no matter what system he plays in.) 95% of our issues were really driven by our passive style and lack of pressure everywhere. I've barked on here since the season ended that we need to mix up the types of forwards we have in the top 9, but none of that goes away until the players are still giving their opponents all the space in the world to do things.

He deserves the whole year and he'll get the whole year. If he doesn't make the necessary changes, then it's adios.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

some news source said that Traktor wants Kravtsov for the whole year if he comes over so this is probably not true.

NYR have the right to recall him regardless of what Traktor want. However, KHL season ends in February and that team generally doesnt have deep playoff runs, so he would still be able to join about 15-20 games in.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

NYR have the right to recall him regardless of what Traktor want. However, KHL season ends in February and that team generally doesnt have deep playoff runs, so he would still be able to join about 15-20 games in.

The Rangers do have that right, but the tweet sounds like that’s a condition for letting him play there in the first place

I’ll trust Brooks Who clearly reported otherwise on that over this random tweet

Kravtsov doesn’t belong to Traktor. They’re doing them a favor

“Stepan isn’t getting traded”

 

[mas0764]

A lot of the gawkers here look in the windows of the other the teams and say, I”ll take one of those and one of those and...”

We are probably better served by asking who are we prepared to move and how can we make some of these other teams better.

DeAngelo would make Calgary better. I’m not sure he makes Anaheim better. There are other teams that would come calling once a rumor or two drops. I would be interested in pursuing either of the Lindholm boys if they are made available.

Georgiev makes a lot of teams better. Trading him could also potentially create another hole that would need to be filled.

Trading Strome doesn’t make a lot of sense to me unless we’ve got another player available to replace him. I’m perfectly fine letting him play the year on a one contract and letting him sing for his supper. Just be sure to get his successor into the system this year.

Ditto Buchnevich.

It’s good to have an ear to the ground and see who might be available from other teams but the Rangers only have a few players and some draft picks available to move. It would appear to me we are going to have a rather quiet summer. Except of course for that Lafreniere guy.

But what if trading Buch/Strome is how we OBTAIN the Strome successor at 2C?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Maybe Kravtsov needs another year of seasoning? As long as he isn't bothered by it I'm ok with it, it might be the best thing instead of him feeling like he is playing in a league thats not helping him(ahl).

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If Strome, Deangelo, Georgiev and Buch can get us a cost controlled LD and 2C im all over it. If we keep all 4 for the next year or two im good with that too as long as there is a plan to pay our core group when they need it.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Lets see when the NHL season starts. They can't do this hub city thing for 4-6 months. A lot depends on a vaccine, which country/company develops it, and if it's from outside of the US, how quickly they do business with the US (I'll stay away from politics but anyone can imply what I mean).

PDG is not a fulltime NHLer so running him out there every night is not a good move, they need to upgrade. He was on pace for 16 points over a full NHL season and for a third liner that is terrible. For everyone giving Kaako crap at least he was on pace for 30ish points which for a third liner is not great but acceptable.

So yes, if the NHL season is in January or Feb next year, Kravstov could be back sooner. He needs to play.

The reason Buch is expendable isn't it's him vs. Kravstov (HF loves the ethnic comparisons lol) but it's what he makes/how much will he make/what he can offer or as Liam Neeson would say his "particular set of skills" vs. what else is in the lineup. He's not a driver and they have enough finesse wingers. They need more sandpaper/grinders/PKers/energy with at least some offense. Those 20G-20A guys the Rangers always have trouble developing.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

DQ must do a lot better job next season if he is going to keep his job. He is obviously just very far from having the understanding of what it takes to be successful in this league compared to the guys in charge for many of the other teams. But he will of course improve their. It’s not like it’s genetics. Getting him assistants will be really important.

To be clear, I don’t mind having him around for another year. But management must be convinced that he can get the job done or a change should be done today. It’s by far the worst of two worlds if DQ is fired 2-3 months in.

Thanks @Ola we should really just pin this to every discussion or thread because it sums up his fate.

So playing a guy like PDG on the third line who offers nothing offensively and is a journeyman is ok when developing someone like a Gettinger on the 4th line who may at least be around a few years isn't ok? It's things like this why I don't think he's a great coach.