Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part L

[duhmetreE]

DeAngelo drives even strength offensive production


@Igor Shestyorkin , @Kupo , @GoAwayStaal , @offdacrossbar

where'd you get all this footage from?

I wish I could do that ( Make videos and edit )

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

DeAngelo drives even strength offensive production


@Igor Shestyorkin , @Kupo , @GoAwayStaal , @offdacrossbar

You can do this for literally anyone. You can do this for Panarin because he had plenty of secondary assists. Especially for defenseman. Transition runs through a defenseman, does it not? DeAngelo transitions the puck up the ice. What you don't show is the offense created outside of just the goals scored. There's a process that leads to goals and offense generated. We can't just discount that.

And if you're going to try to seem smart by showing clips that disprove he drives "ES offensive production" then don't put a bunch of PP clips in there, Einstein.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

DeAngelo drives even strength offensive production


@Igor Shestyorkin , @Kupo , @GoAwayStaal , @offdacrossbar

It’s amusing that you are posting clips like 1:40 as some kind of “gotcha”. His mobility, and ability to look off the defending forward with both his head and stick, then deliver a almost perfect pass to Panarin buys time and space for Panarin to execute that play. Its about as “good” of a second assist that exists.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

It’s amusing that you are posting clips like 1:40 as some kind of “gotcha”. His mobility, and ability to look off the defending forward with both his head and stick, then deliver a almost perfect pass to Panarin buys time and space for Panarin to execute that play. Its about as “good” of a second assist that exists.

My favorite one is the Buchnevich goal against Boston. DeAngelo was backskating with the defender in his face and placed a perfect pass on Buch’s tape in the slot. Did he not facilitate the goal there? Or does it not matter because he didn’t set up a tap in but a grade A scoring chance from a different area of the ice? That video is a clown show for what he’s trying to prove and any hockey coach would laugh in this guy’s face if he presented it to them.

 

[duhmetreE]

If the premise is comparing ADA to Makar talent wise, its not close. Makar is arguably, already, the best offenseman in the league. He has shades of Orr..

 

[Avery16]

I’ll eat the one pick slot and see the fish sticks lose, thank you

They could still make the ECF and lose in them.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

where'd you get all this footage from?

I wish I could do that ( Make videos and edit )

You can get all those clips from the NHL’s YouTube through condensed game highlights. If I had the proper video software I could do things like such as well.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

If the premise is comparing ADA to Makar talent wise, its not close. Makar is arguably, already, the best offenseman in the league. He has shades of Orr..

Personally I never said he was Makar. But this dude thinks he straight up sucks.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I can’t imagine Dunn gets traded.

There’s an almost zero chance Pietrangelo re-signs in St Louis. St Louis knew they were self renting him, and were obviously hoping
To make it further in the playoffs

Plus you add in they committed big money to Faulk, it’s not happening

They’ll probably re-sign Dunn to a cheapish bridge

 

[Thirty One]

DeAngelo drives even strength offensive production


@Igor Shestyorkin , @Kupo , @GoAwayStaal , @offdacrossbar

A+ for production value, but any defenseman who puts up a high number of points will have reels that look like that. Lots of good, but unspectacular, plays there.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

A+ for production value, but any defenseman who puts up a high number of points will have reels that look like that. Lots of good, but unspectacular, plays there.

It’s easy to look at someone like Makar and think they’re the greatest because they do flashy dangles and such but discounting the simple plays that create a domino effect and even the plays which are created but aren’t capitalized on is simply shallow. There’s a lot of hockey played and hockey plays where there is no lead up to a goal. Coaches don’t only look at a play because it led to someone scoring.

 

[TopShelf86]

A+ for production value, but any defenseman who puts up a high number of points will have reels that look like that. Lots of good, but unspectacular, plays there.

Maybe hes so good in a different way that he doesnt need to make highlight reel goals...
He sees the play before it happens and facilitates offense.
Not everybody is gonna take the puck and be Makar. Amazing player Indeed but they're different

So I say..."Pay him.....Pay dat Man his Money"
...I want Oreos now

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If the premise is comparing ADA to Makar talent wise, its not close. Makar is arguably, already, the best offenseman in the league. He has shades of Orr..

Hes not even the best defenseman up for the Calder this year.

 

[Ola]

Yes but how many guys outside of Gettinger came up and looked good on the 4th line?

I'll keep on saying this because its become abundantly clear to me, playing Smith at forward was more about Staal than anything else. PDG played most of his minutes with Chytil and Kakko, so not exactly 4th line time there. We didn't have the type of players who fit onto a 4th line aside from Lemieux and Fast, with the latter being someone you can plug in anywhere and he did a good job with Panarin.

I expect this to be an area that 100000% gets addressed this offseason as management isn't dumb and its the easiest thing to take care of. The system is a much, much, much bigger issue than the players (aside from Staal, who will be a detriment no matter what system he plays in.) 95% of our issues were really driven by our passive style and lack of pressure everywhere. I've barked on here since the season ended that we need to mix up the types of forwards we have in the top 9, but none of that goes away until the players are still giving their opponents all the space in the world to do things.

He deserves the whole year and he'll get the whole year. If he doesn't make the necessary changes, then it's adios.

Just saying, I can't fathom that any of the top coaches even remotely would consider to not make sure to have a solid 4th line that can take som pressure from the rest of the team when you have such a inexperienced offensively biased team in front of it.

One of the first thing DQ said was that he was a three line team coach, that he believed in working his top 3 lines harder and have a 4th with a more minor role. He has done nothing whatsoever to create a 4th that can play a shift. Just look around the league. What type of 4th line players does other team have? Its very rare that teams have 4th lines with three "4th line players" on it. All over its 1-2 decent hockey players at least on the 4th lines.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

I can’t imagine Dunn gets traded.

There’s an almost zero chance Pietrangelo re-signs in St Louis. St Louis knew they were self renting him, and were obviously hoping
To make it further in the playoffs

Plus you add in they committed big money to Faulk, it’s not happening

They’ll probably re-sign Dunn to a cheapish bridge

The Blues have 2M in cap space. I guess they’ll have to move Allen or Binnington or Bozak or something. Tarasenko might get LTIR’d because his career could be over. Every time he plays, he pulls out his same shoulder that’s been nagging him.

 

[duhmetreE]

Would Kravtsov+ to Buffalo for their #8 make sense? If Lundell is there?

I'd obviously would be fine with Rossi too.

edit -
Buffalo gets their top line
Skinner Eichel Kravtsov

We get our line
Lafreniere/Panarin Lundell Kakko

 

[duhmetreE]

Hes not even the best defenseman up for the Calder this year.

thats why the word 'arguably' is placed there.

 

[Thirty One]

Maybe hes so good in a different way that he doesnt need to make highlight reel goals...
He sees the play before it happens and facilitates offense.
Not everybody is gonna take the puck and be Makar. Amazing player Indeed but they're different

So I say..."Pay him.....Pay dat Man his Money"
...I want Oreos now

He does though. If you look at his top plays this season, they would be very impressive. You get that reel was picked selectively, right?

Makar makes the simple effective plays, and DeAngelo makes big loud plays too. And they both can get lit up defensively too.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Just saying, I can't fathom that any of the top coaches even remotely would consider to not make sure to have a solid 4th line that can take som pressure from the rest of the team when you have such a inexperienced offensively biased team in front of it.

One of the first thing DQ said was that he was a three line team coach, that he believed in working his top 3 lines harder and have a 4th with a more minor role. He has done nothing whatsoever to create a 4th that can play a shift. Just look around the league. What type of 4th line players does other team have? Its very rare that teams have 4th lines with three "4th line players" on it. All over its 1-2 decent hockey players at least on the 4th lines.

Almost all coaches ride their top 3 lines pretty hard and use their 4th sparingly at ES. A 4th line these days is a hodgepodge of guys who either PK, play enforcer or are some other kind of specialty player (like a FO ace.) Yes ideally, you want good hockey players who can do these things well in those roles, but if we're being honest outside from Lemieux, we didn't have any, save the 2 games from Gettinger who killed it and then was never heard from again.

4th line even strength usage will not change. We need better players there, Im in agreement there but I don't think you can blame the coach for not having the pieces for that line. Sounds like your beef should be with Gorton.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

thats why the word 'arguably' is placed there.

I saw it, it just isn't really arguable.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

He does though. If you look at his top plays this season, they would be very impressive. You get that reel was picked selectively, right?

Makar makes the simple effective plays, and DeAngelo makes big loud plays too. And they both can get lit up defensively too.

Like people say, “I’d love to see Fox or DeAngelo play well in Trouba’s role”, I’d like to see us bring in some replacement level OFD to replace TDA like Sami Vatanen and see if he does as good. Lol

 

[duhmetreE]

I saw it, it just isn't really arguable.

I'm arguing that

 

[mas0764]

People seem eager to move on from Buchnevich just as he found his game. On pace for 55 points, 4th amongst forwards in hits, adding more physicality to his game.

He's pretty quintessentially a solid complementary offensive player, so I'm unsure why we're so concerned about trying to upgrade a guy who is already a really solid fit here. One wonders if his name was Bradley Smith if he'd be looked at differently.

Its that he’s likely to be in line behind Kakko and Kravtsov on the right side long term, but after this coming season will demand a long term contract extension that will not suit our pay scale if he does indeed end up a third line RW. Even if he stays as a second line wing (presume that Kravtsov busts), it would take a real stretch for him to be more important to our long term success than Panarin, Kakko, and Lafreniere. And even if he ends up being more important or better than Kreider, we’ve already chosen to pay Kreider. Then there is also paying Zibanejad and some day either Chytil or another 2C.

If Buch can be re-upped for $3m, fine, but chances are he gets more like the $6m that Kreider got.

Which means he’s unaffordable to us and we cannot lock ourselves into that contract, which means it’s likely that we should look to trade him before he hits the market and walks for nothing.

It’s not an indictment of Buch as quality depth; I’d love to keep him as a long term 2RW/3RW, but he’s just going to be unaffordable.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Okay so once we get a start date for the season, what are the chances that we sign Nils (if hes still here) and get him over for camp?

 

[kovazub94]

Just saying, I can't fathom that any of the top coaches even remotely would consider to not make sure to have a solid 4th line that can take som pressure from the rest of the team when you have such a inexperienced offensively biased team in front of it.

One of the first thing DQ said was that he was a three line team coach, that he believed in working his top 3 lines harder and have a 4th with a more minor role. He has done nothing whatsoever to create a 4th that can play a shift. Just look around the league. What type of 4th line players does other team have? Its very rare that teams have 4th lines with three "4th line players" on it. All over its 1-2 decent hockey players at least on the 4th lines.

Could you leave your theoretical musings about 4th line use and give specific roster moves Quinn didn’t do without compromising top-9 (that was barely filled up with competent options while having to play without Zibanejad or Kreider for long stretches)? Otherwise you should be directing your complains at Gorton, not Quinn.