Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part IX: Trying To Reason With The Upcoming Season

[Avery16]

Why didn't we do this with Smith last season?

Probably because we paid so much to get him, it'd make it look even more embarrassing if we didn't think he was reclaimable

 

[Avery16]

I agree. He also plays with a bit of an edge to him

Dotchin's the guy Marchand speared in the junk

 

[Tawnos]

The % of escrow will be significantly less with without the escalator. The cap is the cap based on actual revenue. How much escrow is involved in that scenario? The same players who wanted nothing to do with a salary cap and lost an entire season have been complaining about escrow ever since the cap became part of NHL. The NBA players have escrow but you don’t hear about them complaining about it every single year. Stop artificially raising the cap and complaining about escrow when the players are getting more than 50% which sees the NHL players lose a certain % of their salaries.

The cap is based on real revenue from the previous season, not the current one, but for the purposes of talking about escrow, the more important number than the cap is the midpoint. Because the average total league payroll is almost always above the midpoint, the players nearly always owe the owners money in order to satisfy the 50/50 split. That would be true even without the escalator. The league payroll is always above the midpoint because many more teams spend above the midpoint than below it... and of those, a higher share is closer to the cap than those to the floor. The cap acts as a magnet. Which is why you need escrow even if the midpoint is exactly in line with the league's revenue for the year. The only way it goes the other direction, where the players would end up receiving money from the owners, is if revenue growth outpaces the amount the total payroll is above that midpoint.

I'm not disagreeing that the escrow percentage would be less without the escalator, but it isn't the only factor. Like I said, if you lowered the percentage the cap is over the midpoint while leaving the floor the same (i.e. the cap is 10% over the midpoint while the floor is 15% below), you also reduce the amount of escrow that's needed. There's more than one way to solve this issue for the players. You'll never eliminate escrow, but there are definitely ways to make it more palatable for the players to deal with.

 

[Off Sides]

I'm not sure why escrow is really a league issue, the players end up carving that 50% up between all of them.

I guess I don't see why the league should dictate it beyond just assuring they are getting 50%

If the PA wants to regulate it in some way, I think that is up to them as they represent all the players who are getting that 50%

 

[GAGLine]

Why didn't we do this with Smith last season?

Apparently Dotchin was suspended by the team last pre-season for the same issue. Also, I'm sure if we had tried to do that to Smith he would have fought it. Dotchin makes $812,500. Tampa could waive him and send him to the minors with zero cap implications. It's in Dotchin's best interest to agree to terminate, because then maybe he can get a spot on a different NHL team. Smith would have lost a lot of money by doing the same thing.

Now, if Smith is in bad shape again this year, maybe it's a different story, but I would still expect Smith to fight it.

 

[rangers1314]

Apparently Dotchin was suspended by the team last pre-season for the same issue. Also, I'm sure if we had tried to do that to Smith he would have fought it. Dotchin makes $812,500. Tampa could waive him and send him to the minors with zero cap implications. It's in Dotchin's best interest to agree to terminate, because then maybe he can get a spot on a different NHL team. Smith would have lost a lot of money by doing the same thing.

Now, if Smith is in bad shape again this year, maybe it's a different story, but I would still expect Smith to fight it.

Smith has spent all summer with Prentice in CT. I'd expect him to be in great shape.

 

[Avery16]

Apparently Dotchin was suspended by the team last pre-season for the same issue. Also, I'm sure if we had tried to do that to Smith he would have fought it. Dotchin makes $812,500. Tampa could waive him and send him to the minors with zero cap implications. It's in Dotchin's best interest to agree to terminate, because then maybe he can get a spot on a different NHL team. Smith would have lost a lot of money by doing the same thing.

Now, if Smith is in bad shape again this year, maybe it's a different story, but I would still expect Smith to fight it.

If he fought it with the same intensity that he showed after being demoted, I’d say we don’t have much to worry about

 

[RangerBoy]

There are two major sticking points for players: Olympic participation and escrow. Are the players willing to engage NHL owners in a fight over them? Many believe the NHL would like to cut down contract term limits and cap signing bonuses – which says nothing of the potential hunger to change the revenue split or re-define what counts as revenue.

There is no question escrow is the dirtiest word in hockey dressing rooms. Last year 11.5 per cent of paycheques were withheld to ensure a 50/50 split with owners. That means players collected 88.5 per cent of their published salaries – with only a small portion likely to be refunded once the dollars are balanced.

The majority of players remain undereducated about escrow. The only way to change escrow is to change the system; it’s the only one that ensures a proper split. The way to lessen the amount withheld is to slow salary cap growth each year, though that also limits free agent earnings and jobs on the union margin.

“You’d definitely have to give something, for sure,” Nathan MacKinnon said of changing escrow.

Not artificially raising the salary cap would be a major solution to the issue of escrow. These guys want the cap to go up every year by $3M-5M and then complain about escrow. Read some of those comments in the TSN story. Ridiculous.

The Rangers better be careful with how they spend their money. The cap could get very tight in the future.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The issue with not using the escalator is that you are potentially causing turmoil between the players. They've used the escalator pretty much every year. Stop now and you're gonna get a lot of salt from the guys who are up for bigger deals, who were more than willing to eat the escrow when other players were getting them, but now are not gonna get paid in kind because those players who already have their deals don't want to give up any of their money. The escalator was/is an extremely slippery slope that unfortunately they've already gone down. A soft cap, I personally think, would have alleviate that problem, but what do I know.

 

[lucky13]

I don't really agree. I'm not sure what team wants a 23-year old who can't make a rebuilding squad and who has his reputation (not that I personally believe that reputation hold anymore).

It’s obv based on nothing but my opinion.... but I’d say the fact that he’s still young, controlled, skilled and a right hand shot.... but say it’s about a 90 percent chance he’d be claimed

 

[Edge]

Smith has spent all summer with Prentice in CT. I'd expect him to be in great shape.

I get that we can't take him as a given, but if he comes into camp ready to play some of the best hockey of his career, it could be a huge difference.

It's almost easy to forget what he brings when he's on his A-game.

 

[NYR]

I get that we can't take him as a given, but if he comes into camp ready to play some of the best hockey of his career, it could be a huge difference.

It's almost easy to forget what he brings when he's on his A-game.

How often throughout his career has he ever been on his A- game?

Sure, he's done in spurts but always ends up falling flat on his face.

3 coach's later, they always end up going with a better option in the form of another player.

I'm beyond done with this Smith experiment BS..

 

[RangerBoy]

At a different time, there would be no better man to award the Rangers’ captaincy than Mats Zuccarello. But Zuccarello is entering the final year of his contract and is more likely than not to be traded approaching the Feb. 25 deadline, so unless the Rangers want to run through a turnstile captaincy and be in this same position next season, no C for No. 36.

Chris Kreider could be an interesting choice for the position that was vacated upon Ryan McDonagh’s deadline trade to Tampa Bay last Feb. 26. But Kreider’s deal only has two more years to go, so there is no way to know whether management will extend No. 20 or instead deal him before the contract expires, and really, wouldn’t the captaincy become as much of a burden as a reward for the forever internalizing winger?

Marc Staal, second in team seniority to Henrik Lundqvist, has the pedigree and has been an alternate for eight seasons, the position management appears to believe best suited to No. 18. Kevin Shattenkirk has talked the leadership talk since breakup day and is in position to spread the Gospel According to David Quinn, but No. 22 is no sure thing for a long-term run on Broadway, either.

So no C to either of them.

https://nypost.com/2018/09/14/rangers-likely-wont-name-a-captain-but-thats-not-the-worst-thing/

So when do the Rangers trade Kreider? Brooks brought it up. He will be 29 at the start of his next contract which will take him to his mid 30's.

Shattenkirk just got here. He still has three years left on his contract.

Maybe the Rangers don't view those players as leaders. Captain material.

The Rangers made Callahan the captain in 2011 when he signed just a 3 year contract and was traded at the 2014 deadline. They weren't concerned about a revolving door at captain.

The next captain should be the face of the next Rangers team which competes for a Cup.

Don't name a captain for a while.

 

[Irishguy42]

I agree. Don't name a captain yet. Wait to see who emerges from the current group of players. It will happen within a year or two.

 

[NYR]

https://nypost.com/2018/09/14/rangers-likely-wont-name-a-captain-but-thats-not-the-worst-thing/

So when do the Rangers trade Kreider? Brooks brought it up. He will be 29 at the start of his next contract which will take him to his mid 30's.

Shattenkirk just got here. He still has three years left on his contract.

Maybe the Rangers don't view those players as leaders. Captain material.

The Rangers made Callahan the captain in 2011 when he signed just a 3 year contract and was traded at the 2014 deadline. They weren't concerned about a revolving door at captain.

The next captain should be the face of the next Rangers team which competes for a Cup.

Don't name a captain for a while.

The very fact that Kreider's future as a NYR comes into question while being stuck with Shattenkirk's contract makes me nauseous..

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It will be Lias or Howden eventually IMO.

 

[E-Train]

I don't have an issue with naming a captain that may be eventually dealt. If they want to go with three A's, so be it.

 

[Mikos87]

Don't name a captain.

Not everyone can handle it, McDonagh wasn't a great captain imo. His game slipped with the C on his chest. Guess what, neither was Leetch.

The Rangers dont have good leadership in that room, and you need your captain to have that and be able to grow with the team.

IMO you can go this year and next without a C and not miss a beat.

 

[Mikos87]

Comments on the Karlsson and MaxPac deals:

Tierney was on the block for a while, I thought he might be a good pickup for the Rangers if Tavares ended up in SJ.

OTT got less for Karlsson than I would have thought. Makes the McD deal look a lot better.

Both OTT and MTL did not want to trade their captains in the east. I know some of you dont out stock into trading within divisions or conferences, but GMs do.

Vegas altered their team building philosophy from last summer, they'll be going for it.

Market for rentals just got better for the Rangers with recent trades and signings.

Kevin Hayes could net a small fortune if this keeps going. Contenders will want centers going into the playoffs.

 

[I Eat Crow]

https://nypost.com/2018/09/14/rangers-likely-wont-name-a-captain-but-thats-not-the-worst-thing/

So when do the Rangers trade Kreider? Brooks brought it up. He will be 29 at the start of his next contract which will take him to his mid 30's.

Shattenkirk just got here. He still has three years left on his contract.

Maybe the Rangers don't view those players as leaders. Captain material.

The Rangers made Callahan the captain in 2011 when he signed just a 3 year contract and was traded at the 2014 deadline. They weren't concerned about a revolving door at captain.

The next captain should be the face of the next Rangers team which competes for a Cup.

Don't name a captain for a while.

Lias Andersson. I agree. Wait until he's an important contributor on the big club. Not a matter of if, but when.

 

[Avery16]

The very fact that Kreider's future as a NYR comes into question while being stuck with Shattenkirk's contract makes me nauseous..

1 - we aren’t stuck with Shattenkirk’s contract.

2 - even if we were, the overlap between that contract being unwanted and Kreider’s hypo next being untenable is maybe like one season

 

[NYR]

1 - we aren’t stuck with Shattenkirk’s contract.

2 - even if we were, the overlap between that contract being unwanted and Kreider’s hypo next being untenable is maybe like one season

I think the Shattenkirk contract is horrible and it's going to look even worse depending on where/ how he plays.

If he plays @#1D as anticipated, he's going to get completely torched on the defensive end and I highly doubt any other team would be willing take on that $7M contact for that.

After the adrenaline wears off, if he ends up on the 2nd pair, again..Who's going to pair nearly $7M for a 2nd pairing D?

It's one of the more ridiculous signings in the league if you ask me.

20 games in...Watch.

 

[Dijock94]

I get that we can't take him as a given, but if he comes into camp ready to play some of the best hockey of his career, it could be a huge difference.

It's almost easy to forget what he brings when he's on his A-game.

Playoffs two years ago he was our best defenseman.

 

[NYR]

Playoffs two years ago he was our best defenseman.

No he wasn't.
Smith played well but Skjei was playing like an all star and carried that pair.

 

[Avery16]

I think the Shattenkirk contract is horrible and it's going to look even worse depending on where/ how he plays.

If he plays @#1D as anticipated, he's going to get completely torched on the defensive end and I highly doubt any other team would be willing take on that $7M contact for that.

After the adrenaline wears off, if he ends up on the 2nd pair, again..Who's going to pair nearly $7M for a 2nd pairing D?

It's one of the more ridiculous signings in the league if you ask me.

20 games in...Watch.

He’s a consistent, perennial 40-50 point player, making 6.65 for three more seasons.