Roster Building thread - Part IX - (2024 edition)

[Avery16]

The irony of this post is that St. Louis only made 2 very minor deals prior to that trade deadline:

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Yeah. The Blues were a dominant team in the regular season for a few seasons prior to their Cup win. Their big moves were to add playoff competitors like ROR and Schenn. They spent firsts, but mostly to clear out bad contracts while getting those players- Berglund, Lehtera, Sobotka…these guys aren’t in the league anymore. Stastny was coasting in St. Louis after signing to bring what they eventually got in ROR. But these moves were two or three seasons prior to the Cup run.

They also caught lightning in a bottle with Binnington and Berube. More about moving on from Jake Allen and Yeo than what Binnington or Berube brought.

 

[CLW]

He's been on RW most of the season and is on the RW for them right now.

Duclair and Dowd would be my two preferred pickups.

I see Duclair as a better version of Gauthier. There's something "brainless" about both of them.

 

[NYR Viper]

I see Duclair as a better version of Gauthier. There's something "brainless" about both of them.

In fairness, a better version of Gauthier isn't a bad depth player

 

[McRanger92]

Only really interested in Duclair if Sturm is coming too for that 3C role.

 

[SA16]

He's been on RW most of the season and is on the RW for them right now.

Duclair and Dowd would be my two preferred pickups.

Well that's not a very good sign is it then? If he's been on RW most of this year and it happens to be the worst 5v5 production he's had in his entire career? And it's not due to sh% stuff either. Add in the fact that he's very poor defensively I'm not seeing the great fit here.

 

[surlysailor]

Well that's not a very good sign is it then? If he's been on RW most of this year and it happens to be the worst 5v5 production he's had in his entire career? And it's not due to sh% stuff either. Add in the fact that he's very poor defensively I'm not seeing the great fit here.

Well I think you have to put into context he went from playing on a SCF team to one of if not the worst team in the league. Also he had a pretty good playoff run last year with 11pts in 20. I think he's worth the mid round pick he'd cost vs giving up a 1st and possibly more for Vatrano since he has an other season.

 

[SA16]

Well I think you have to put into context he went from playing on a SCF team to one of if not the worst team in the league. Also he had a pretty good playoff run last year with 11pts in 20. I think he's worth the mid round pick he'd cost vs giving up a 1st and possibly more for Vatrano since he has an other season.

I'd much rather go for someone like Okposo who actually is a RW, is a good defensive player, and also puts up decent offensive numbers as opposed to the guy who generally plays LW and is very bad defensively.

 

[TGWL]

Most players speaking glowingly about playing here. Not all of them go out and get re-acquired.

I'm sure some guys would love to come back if given the chance. Doesn't mean that it's going to happen.

But again what do you expect him to say? That he hated his time here? No f*** he liked his time here, he got top six minutes, went on a playoff run which allowed him to secure a bag in Anaheim lol.


They offered Zucc a contract.

He chased the money.

I don't know how much the stars really offered him. I think it was a short term, meh contract to try make it worth losing a 1st. Their GM said
""Mats Zuccarello was a great player for us and we were hoping to get him back, but something that comes into play is there was a first-round pick attached to that," Stars general manager Jim Nill said. "Those are valuable, valuable assets. It was a tough decision to make. When some other players became available, it kind of helped to take the pressure off. 'You know what, I think we might be able to keep our first-round pick and still add some great players. Made that decision a little bit easier.""

 

[surlysailor]

I'd much rather go for someone like Okposo who actually is a RW, is a good defensive player, and also puts up decent offensive numbers as opposed to the guy who generally plays LW and is very bad defensively.

I def would not mind Okposo but I don't think he does much for KZ line. They're pretty solid defensively already, their problem is transition and getting the puck in the zone. I think Duclair helps with that compared to Ok. I think there's a lot of option out there for the KZ line, I don't mind the Ok idea, I also don't mind Eberle, Zucker, or Tatar. I think the wing UFA market nyr shouldn't have to overpay for. It's the 3c that's the main concern (cost wise and positionally) that worries me.

 

[bhamill]

Granlund is terrible and should have negative value with his contract. His "good season" is a function of playing in an extremely weak team and being forcefed minutes.

In any case I do need to revise a comment I made the other day about the two worst things in hockey discussions being:

1. The term "on pace"
2. the term "Redundancy"

Usage of "ES" instead of "5v5" jumps above both of those.

ES is practically the same as 5v5, people mostly use it in lieu of “non power play” which is of course situationally much higher in terms of scoring than pretty much any other configuration.
If this is your biggest peeve consider yourself lucky. Hahaha.

 

[zlev]

rangers fans motherf***ing love the idea of bringing back former rangers who didn't work out the first time

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

There were a lot of mistakes in the way of deals but I feel like everything started getting whacked out when Drury traded Buch for peanuts.

They depleted their RW depth to open up room for Kakko to move up and now they are entertaining offers for him less than 30 months later and Laf switched wings to be in his spot

Combined with some bad signings and Covid killing the upper limit it makes it virtually impossible to address needs without sacrificing somewhere else. Especially now with Chytil's career threatened.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

There are really 3 reasons I'd be against a Vatrano trade.

1. Cost given the extra year and what he's doing this year. His rate of production won't continue as he will not sniff PP1 here.
2. Even if you want to spring for a one dimensional forward, hes the wrong type of one dimensional forward to spring for. He does a good job carrying the puck through the NZ and into the OZ with control (at least he did when he was here, I don't know how that has looked in Anaheim) but he's always looking to shoot it first. A pass first version would be a better fit (no that isn't Patrick Kane, who still pretty much sucks at everything when he isn't busy being hurt.)
3. It's just further reinforcing the Zibanejad-Kreider combo but this kind of ties into point 2. Fixing Kreider may be and probably is as simple as just getting him on another line. Zibanejad needs a certain type of support that isn't Vatrano so even if they dud end up moving Kreider off the line (they won't as Lavi is married to it), it isn't helping Z.


@Amazing Kreiderman mentioned this on twitter but I thought I'd expand on it.

Fans/Media seem to have a warped view on what Kreider-Zibanejad-Vatrano actually was. That line got their collective asses kicked during the 2022 playoffs.

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This was with a better version of Zibanejad. Regular season numbers look MUCH better, but their goal share was really driven by stellar defensive numbers which I'm guessing were a result of facing subpar competition down the stretch.

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Look at the disparity between the regular season numbers and the playoff numbers. Expected goals per 60 dropped by about .5. expected Goals against per 60 went up by 1.6!

Would be the most short sighted add ever. Vatrano provided good value for what they gave up for him a few years ago. they needed goal scoring on the cheap and thats what they got, even if it was at the expense of being able to do much of anything else when he was out there.

He won't cost a 4th this time around and his acquisition will only serve to fail a revival of a duo that should have been buried already.

#saynotovatrano.

Yes, we have to find this years version of what Vatrano was to us (Sprong?).

I’m down with Hayes

 

[NYR Viper]

Yes, we have to find this years version of what Vatrano was to us (Sprong?).

I’m down with Hayes

I’m more interested in finding a Prust than a Vatrano honestly. Someone who can play a hard nosed game but has a bit of an understated offensive game. Girgensons, Lorentz, I’m sure there are others out there

 

[zlev]

get me hayes, duclair, vatrano, staal, zuccarello, nick holden and what's brassard up to?

kreider-mika-vatrano
panarin-trocheck-zucc
duclair-hayes-laf
vesey-brassard-kakko

fox-holden
staal-trouba
miller-schneider

 

[SA16]

Yes, we have to find this years version of what Vatrano was to us (Sprong?).

I’m down with Hayes

The Red Wings are 6 points up on the last playoff spot right now. They are not likely to be sellers barring a disastrous February.

 

[surlysailor]

I’m more interested in finding a Prust than a Vatrano honestly. Someone who can play a hard nosed game but has a bit of an understated offensive game. Girgensons, Lorentz, I’m sure there are others out there

Would Donato be something like that? He's signed for another year at a 2 mil cap hit. I haven't really followed him since he left Boston but good for close to 30 points a year. Also maybe Oscar Sundqvist from the Blues? Capfriendly says he plays all 3 positions but don't know if he actually plays C that much. As a side note, I did not realize Capfriendly now gives detailed analysis on players.. pretty pretty pretty cool.

 

[mike14]

ES is practically the same as 5v5, people mostly use it in lieu of “non power play” which is of course situationally much higher in terms of scoring than pretty much any other configuration.
If this is your biggest peeve consider yourself lucky. Hahaha.

I think there is quite a difference. Using Mika in 22-23 as example, he played almost 100 extra mins at ES v 5v5 and scored an additional 10 points which is not an insignificant amount. His usage also went from 4th among forwards to 3rd. KAM scored an extra 7 pts ES v 5v5 in the same season.

So far this season Mika has 6 more points ES vs 5v5. When people use point totals to help determine tiers of players (ie 50+ player vs 60+ player) then around 10 points a season seems like it's worth ensuring that Es and 5v5 and used interchangeably

 

[RangersFan1994]

We need Sam Bennett types. Not Zegras

Dowd can fill that role somewhat. Those players are hard to find and it’s why I was clamoring for him when he was on Calgary….

I’m more interested in finding a Prust than a Vatrano honestly. Someone who can play a hard nosed game but has a bit of an understated offensive game. Girgensons, Lorentz, I’m sure there are others out there

I want Jack McBain center from the Coyotes, fills a lot of those needs only 24.

 

[NYR Viper]

Would Donato be something like that? He's signed for another year at a 2 mil cap hit. I haven't really followed him since he left Boston but good for close to 30 points a year. Also maybe Oscar Sundqvist from the Blues? Capfriendly says he plays all 3 positions but don't know if he actually plays C that much. As a side note, I did not realize Capfriendly now gives detailed analysis on players.. pretty pretty pretty cool.

Donato from what I’ve seen, isn’t an overly physical player. Kind of meh.

Sundqvist gets caved on possession so that’s a bit concerning

 

[mas0764]

I blame St. Louis. Seriously. The St. Louis Blues f***ed up the market for years.

Before that 2019 deadline, Crosby and Ovechkin had just won the last three Cups. Before that, it was Kane and friends in Chicago.

And the whole league was saying "oh shit, you need to draft Hall of Famers to win the Cup, I'm not wasting a 1st round pick on my roster of not Hall of Famers."

Three months later, the f***ing Blues won the Cup. That has to be the most mid f***ing roster to win a championship in pro sports in my lifetime.

The idea that you need young, gamebreaking talent to win is mostly true, but that vibe of "hey, we can win!" is still alive from 2019.

So, so true. All of it.

 

[mas0764]

There were a lot of mistakes in the way of deals but I feel like everything started getting whacked out when Drury traded Buch for peanuts.

They depleted their RW depth to open up room for Kakko to move up and now they are entertaining offers for him less than 30 months later and Laf switched wings to be in his spot

Combined with some bad signings and Covid killing the upper limit it makes it virtually impossible to address needs without sacrificing somewhere else. Especially now with Chytil's career threatened.

I wasn’t against trading Buch but a 25 year old winger coming off 70 points should have been a ticket for a young future 1C gamble. Instead of nothing.

The Rangers problem is, and I say this a lot lately, it’s that they literally aren’t any smarter than many posters on here.

And it’s the posters who constantly harp on old time cliches like they are written in stone. They have no ability to think outside the box to get ahead of other teams and they have no ability to see past like the next 18 months. It’s all they are obsessed with.

 

[Webster]

They played the "Let's try to steal 2 1st round picks here with conditions." In fairness, they almost got the first from Dallas close to advancing, and I still believe Zucc was pretty much not signed by Dallas to avoid giving up a first on that condition.

Term was the issue for Zucc, the Stars offered him a 4 yr deal, Zucc wanted 5. The team thought it was too much when they also had to give up a 1st.

The league changed the rules after that trade, a conditional pick if a player signs with his new team is no longer allowed.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I’m more interested in finding a Prust than a Vatrano honestly. Someone who can play a hard nosed game but has a bit of an understated offensive game. Girgensons, Lorentz, I’m sure there are others out there

Sounds good, they’re out there - Trenin, I’d love Kuraly with a bit of retention.

I didn’t have you pegged for the truculence crowd

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I wasn’t against trading Buch but a 25 year old winger coming off 70 points should have been a ticket for a young future 1C gamble. Instead of nothing.

The Rangers problem is, and I say this a lot lately, it’s that they literally aren’t any smarter than many posters on here.

And it’s the posters who constantly harp on old time cliches like they are written in stone. They have no ability to think outside the box to get ahead of other teams and they have no ability to see past like the next 18 months. It’s all they are obsessed with.

It’s the harping posters, those damn blue collar tweakers