Roster Building thread - Part IX - (2024 edition)

[DanielBrassard]

Granlund is terrible and should have negative value with his contract. His "good season" is a function of playing in an extremely weak team and being forcefed minutes.

In any case I do need to revise a comment I made the other day about the two worst things in hockey discussions being:

1. The term "on pace"
2. the term "Redundancy"

Usage of "ES" instead of "5v5" jumps above both of those.

So does not using /60 which is ridiculous because not everyone plays the same amount of minutes as we have all been told for years by people complaining about certain players time on ice on the Rangers.

 

[Machinehead]

So does not using /60 which is ridiculous because not everyone plays the same amount of minutes as we have all been told for years by people complaining about certain players time on ice on the Rangers.

It's crazy to me that you can talk about efficiency with regular ass NBA fans sitting at the arena or the bar since like, 1990, but like 1 out of 100 average Joe hockey fans will have heard of "per 60."

Same with baseball and WAR, and football with something like QB rating. Soccer has been posting possession stats on the broadcast since like, probably the 80's.

Hockey discourse is multiple generations overdue for becoming the adult version of itself.

 

[IchabodCrane]

69 total, you can't just erase what he did before he go to NY.

Plus they had guys like Stepan and Zuccarello who were basically right at that number. They may have not had the one stand out guy on the team but they had really, really solid scoring depth and their 3rd line was just a massive mis match line that ate apart their opponents. That was the McDonagh break out year too where he was well on his way to a 50 point season himself before Burrows ended his regular season with a cheap shot.

They were also one of those teams that has horrendous shooting luck through the end of December. They were a really popular pick amongst a ton of people to be a dark horse in the east (they were right) despite the fact that they still had to scratch and claw their way to get through the first 2 rounds (that Philly and Montreal series had no business really going 7 and 6 games, those should have ended in 5 and 4.)

They lost to a better team in LA eventually but with 3 OT losses in that series the story could have been very different with a bounce or 2 or a ref that knew what goalie interference was. That was a really good team that was a mix of depth, skill and the "heart and soul" players.

Our "Heart and soul" forwards were actually good though. Boyle, Moore, Dorsett and the gang could all play.

Not so much with our H&S defensemen though. Girardi sucked and Staal fell off a cliff after the Pittsburgh series.

You have to have both. I am saying we have plenty of skill, not enoug heart. Right now.

Ideally, your players would have both: Mess and Graves. Crosby and Malkin. Brown and Kopitar. Stamkos and Hedman. List goes on and on….

Zibinajad? No thanks.

Remember when Mackey hit Stuzle and then fought kchucks and then we scored 7 goals and won? Yea…. We need that. Not more foxes and zbads and kanes

 

[Machinehead]

You have to have both. I am saying we have plenty of skill, not enoug heart. Right now.

Ideally, your players would have both: Mess and Graves. Crosby and Malkin. Brown and Kopitar. Stamkos and Hedman. List goes on and on….

Zibinajad? No thanks.

Remember when Mackey hit Stuzle and then fought kchucks and then we scored 7 goals and won? Yea…. We need that. Not more foxes and zbads and kanes

We continued to suck in that game and won because Ottawa goaltending gave up 6 on 2.51 expected.

This isn't a hot analytics take. Some of those goals were visually awful by the goalie, especially the Kreider goal that really turned the scoring tide. The fight made the goalie suck?

I'm not saying this to criticize Mackey but it's another perfect example of why hockey is such a braindead sport.

Zibanejad isn't a problem because he's soft. He's a problem because he's inefficient. "Inefficient" isn't even a concept in hockey's lexicon and it's crazy to me.

Zibanejad is a player that just scores a lot because he plays a lot. He isn't good at anything except meeting his volume which any base-level talented NHL player does.

You address inefficiency by upgrading and reducing the player's role. You address "softness" by keeping Zibanejad in the role he's in and putting another new body (who probably isn't good at anything, going off previous examples) in the bottom six.

I know which one I'd rather do.

 

[jaywills1020]

Is Turcotte becoming an NHL player? Or is he flaming out. Kaliyev seems extremely one dimensional. At least Kakko has shown he is a middle 6 forward (no matter how high of a pedestal people have him on because of his draft status) who plays both sides of the puck. Strong possession player.

I am so not ready to give up on Kakko. We are selling him at a low point. Huge mistake.

He may be one dimensional but he has a hell of a shot and he isn’t afraid to shoot. Something we kinda need since everyone loves to pass when they have a wide open net to shoot at. I don’t wanna trade KK either though.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You have to have both. I am saying we have plenty of skill, not enoug heart. Right now.

Ideally, your players would have both: Mess and Graves. Crosby and Malkin. Brown and Kopitar. Stamkos and Hedman. List goes on and on….

Zibinajad? No thanks.

Remember when Mackey hit Stuzle and then fought kchucks and then we scored 7 goals and won? Yea…. We need that. Not more foxes and zbads and kanes

Mackey got his ass reamed in that game. I posted it already. They won despite him.

Stamkos was skewered for his lack of heart… until Tampa won. Funny how that works eh?

If you want to add grit guys who are good? Sure, as long as they are good first and gritty second. What we don’t need are more mackeys, Goodrows, Troubas and Lindgren’s. Those guys are all varying degrees of bad.

 

[will1066]

@Machinehead

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/03/sport/mbappe-to-join-real-madrid-after-psg-contract-expires/index.html

 

[Machinehead]

@Machinehead

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/03/sport/mbappe-to-join-real-madrid-after-psg-contract-expires/index.html

This was the only move that was ever going to happen. I hope everyone enjoyed writing clickbait in the meantime.

 

[hockeyplayer999]

Igor looks comfortable in Toronto....what do we want from the Maple Leafs?

Shesterkin and Zib for Matthew’s and marner with retention. Can wish.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

You have to have both. I am saying we have plenty of skill, not enoug heart. Right now.

Ideally, your players would have both: Mess and Graves. Crosby and Malkin. Brown and Kopitar. Stamkos and Hedman. List goes on and on….

Zibinajad? No thanks.

Remember when Mackey hit Stuzle and then fought kchucks and then we scored 7 goals and won? Yea…. We need that. Not more foxes and zbads and kanes

I would take an entire team of Fox’s. We’d go 82-0 in the regular season and then 16-0 in the playoffs.

I’m being serious. I think we’d go undefeated with 18 Fox’s.

Make it happen!

 

[FIRE DRURY]

69 total, you can't just erase what he did before he go to NY.

Plus they had guys like Stepan and Zuccarello who were basically right at that number. They may have not had the one stand out guy on the team but they had really, really solid scoring depth and their 3rd line was just a massive mis match line that ate apart their opponents. That was the McDonagh break out year too where he was well on his way to a 50 point season himself before Burrows ended his regular season with a cheap shot.

They were also one of those teams that has horrendous shooting luck through the end of December. They were a really popular pick amongst a ton of people to be a dark horse in the east (they were right) despite the fact that they still had to scratch and claw their way to get through the first 2 rounds (that Philly and Montreal series had no business really going 7 and 6 games, those should have ended in 5 and 4.)

They lost to a better team in LA eventually but with 3 OT losses in that series the story could have been very different with a bounce or 2 or a ref that knew what goalie interference was. That was a really good team that was a mix of depth, skill and the "heart and soul" players.

Our "Heart and soul" forwards were actually good though. Boyle, Moore, Dorsett and the gang could all play.

Not so much with our H&S defensemen though. Girardi sucked and Staal fell off a cliff after the Pittsburgh series.

Meh. Still disagree. Good team with depth that played well together, but lacked talent compared to other rosters.

That lack of talent was really exposed in the playoffs too. In the 25 playoff games they scored 2 goals or less 14 times, along with 3 shutouts. They had 4 3-goal games as well. Lunqvist had only 4 games that postseason where that team scored more than 3 goals.

We can agree to disagree about the level of talent that team had. Great depth, role players and chemistry, but kind of mid in terms of talent.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I would take an entire team of Fox’s. We’d go 82-0 in the regular season and then 16-0 in the playoffs.

I’m being serious. I think we’d go undefeated with 18 Fox’s.

Make it happen!

Calgary is going to need a ton of 3rd round picks.

 

[McRanger92]

13 games to to the trade deadline. Curious to see who on the team shows up out of the break

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I would take an entire team of Fox’s. We’d go 82-0 in the regular season and then 16-0 in the playoffs.

I’m being serious. I think we’d go undefeated with 18 Fox’s.

Make it happen!

Yeah the Fox slander is something I don't understand and won't really ever stand for. Dude would be sitting on 2 Norris wins if he had a legitimate partner last year.

I guess being a ppg+ player in the playoffs as a defenseman isn't enough for some people. Need more players who can barely hack it in the AHL bc tuffness and heart and soul.

 

[LOFIN]

@Machinehead

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/03/sport/mbappe-to-join-real-madrid-after-psg-contract-expires/index.html

I mean the owners of PSG certainly don't lack pocket change but kinda unusual that they will just let the contract run out instead of getting a nice transfer fee. BAD ASSET MANAGEMENT, one could say.

 

[JimmyG89]

13 games to to the trade deadline. Curious to see who on the team shows up out of the break

Nothing easy coming out of it, but a bunch of guys could have used the time away. Mika needs to find himself. Nothing changes unless he picks it up.

If the PP stays flat it needs changes. Lindgren needs a big 13 games if he plans on staying. Demoted to the 3rd pairing even with Mackey in the lineup.

The last part is that they need the old Shesterkin back. The one that would make the gamechanging save. The .932 Igor may never come back, but the .920 one can and that's what this team needs.

 

[RangerBoy]

Ottawa trade is getting like 250 cents on the dollar for Kakko/Kaliyev lol. Sure why not.

Gus would get a 2nd I think. Mackey is worthless. Crazy talk.

Gustafsson is projected to get close to $5M in his contract. That is crazy talk. If teams look at him as a $5M player this summer, why not trade him? Strike while the iron is hot. The Rangers aren’t paying him $5M.

 

[Vitto79]

Schneider , Goodrow, Pitlick
For
Gudbranson, Kurlay, Texier , Rozslovic at 50

Moves 1 yr of Goodrow while taking on Gudbranson who’s also meh and overpaid

I rather not move Schneider but they may

 

[RangerBoy]

Schneider , Goodrow
For
Gudbranson, Kurlay, Rozslovic at 50

Moves 1 yr of Goodrow while taking on Gudbranson who’s also meh and overpaid

I rather not move Schneider but they may

How about trading Schneider for someone who will have a future here?

 

[RangerBoy]

Gustafsson is projected to get close to $5M in his contract. That is crazy talk. If teams look at him as a $5M player this summer, why not trade him? Strike while the iron is hot. The Rangers aren’t paying him $5M.

This is a sellers market. Monahan with his injury history got a 1st round pick. Not a conditional games played clause and a how far the team goes in the playoffs clause. People say his cap hit at $1.95M increased the price. The center market is barren. Henrique is now a hot commodity. That says it all.

Gustafsson is at $825,000. Every team can afford that. Every team needs a D. The D market isn't very strong.

 

[bernmeister]

So why said trading partner wouldn’t pickup Gauthier and keep a 4th… and profit?

Not even entertaining Vesey suggestion.

Otherwise throw-up emoji because making a team weaker for the sake of 4th round pick is asinine, no less.

1.) I can't help you if you choose to have a closed mind.
2.) situation is closer to a video with movement which goes forward over time as opposed to yr characterization, a photo which is an isolated snapshot in time.
The team is NOT strong enuf to be a favorite for Cup. Outside chance only, dep on luck + injury to advance deep/win it all.
Given that ^ REALITY, makes sense to go w/sufficient placeholder short term and add picks, picks, picks and further use those picks to upgrade [trade up] into even (likely) better assets.

The heart and soul Rangers team in 2014 got beat by a more talented Kings team.

All heart and no talent loses
All talent and no heart loses.
But there is an adage in all pro sports:
usually, all things equal, the good big man defeats the good smaller man
what that means here is @Kupo and I are right.
Over time = consistent rule, not the exception, talent prevails.
We don't have the horses, we didn't listen to bern and wasted talent in rental disasters, and until we get with my program and add foundation pieces by focusing on high quality youth adds, we will suffer more of the same.

Shesterkin and Zib for Matthew’s and marner with retention. Can wish.

IF we gave Zib a head's up and said,
"look, on the q t, there's gonna be some dramatic changes to the core, Trouba gone over the summer, likely Shesty as well, bread may wish to not wait to last minute before allowing to waive....
TOR has kind of team that on paper could go deep, will you accept trade/waive"...
then...
Shesty + Zib + 2 2nds
for
Nylander, Liljigren + 2 1sts

then flip Nyl + Lil to Sens
for
Sanderson, Pinto, Grieg

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Zibanejad's career slowed down after his last concussion, he's all perimeter now, used to drive the net but he's just avoiding that contact now. Kreider gets in there eventually but isn't crashing the net, they need a guy that does that on that line. Id really like to see Berard get a shot there, not sure if he's physically ready but his style is what that line needs, speedy and aggressive.

 

[haohmaru]

Gustafsson is projected to get close to $5M in his contract. That is crazy talk. If teams look at him as a $5M player this summer, why not trade him? Strike while the iron is hot. The Rangers aren’t paying him $5M.

5M? Yikes. Yeah, if there's that much interest shoot him somewhere for a 2nd +, play Jones, and trade for a position of need.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

So we've been talking alot about moving a dman, there's no way we can resign Gustafson, so maybe he can be worked into a deal for an upgrade. I realize he's been a bargain but maybe his value to a team thats gonna lose a dman might be good, ie Calgary and Tanev, they might feel they'd have a better chance resigning Gus.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I'm currently all aboard the Jenner train, guy with a good contract , can play center or wing. Wonder what a deal would look like? Likely start with our 1st and maybe Jones and a prospect?