Roster Building thread - Part IX - (2024 edition)

[RangerBoy]

Not true. Trouba's NMC becomes a limited NTC after this year and I don't believe Kreider and Trocheck have iron clad NMC's either but why would you trade either of them anyway. Trouba certainly can be traded this summer but it takes two to tango and that cap hit may be a problem for other teams.

Trouba's no movement clause expires this summer. 15 team NTC next summer. 12 team NTC in 25-26. Two more seasons. The Rangers can retain some of the $8M. They are allowed three retention slots. It's only for two seasons.

Kreider's no movement clause expires this summer. 15 team NTC for the remaining three years.

Trocheck's no movement clause expires next summer. 12 team NTC, 10 team NTC and 6 team NTC in each pf the last two seasons.

The Rangers can change the core next summer.

 

[McRanger92]

They aren’t even close to the softest team in the league.

People who think they are dont watch enough hockey, but I will say they play softer than they have any right to way to much. Definitely among the softer teams that fancy themselves contenders.

And "softness" to me is not fighting and taking penalties after the whistle, its protecting your crease/attacking the other teams, battling hard for pucks around the goal line, abandoning cross ice passes when they arent working. Rangers top guys play a stubborn game that trickles down and hurts the rest of the team. They also dont have each other's backs, which is plain as day. All the leaders should be doing some self reflection during their vacations imo

 

[Kovalev27]

Trouba's no movement clause expires this summer. 15 team NTC next summer. 12 team NTC in 25-26. Two more seasons. The Rangers can retain some of the $8M. They are allowed three retention slots. It's only for two seasons.

Kreider's no movement clause expires this summer. 15 team NTC for the remaining three years.

Trocheck's no movement clause expires next summer. 12 team NTC, 10 team NTC and 6 team NTC in each pf the last two seasons.

The Rangers can change the core next summer.

You know they aren’t trading any of those guys I don’t even know why you’d even consider trading Trocheck

 

[RangerBoy]

I doubt he gets 8 years too he’s not a star player he’s 29 years old drury won’t give up real assets like kakko for him without an extension is my guess

And @RangerBoy the core stinks?
Which guy Kreider? Mika? Panarin? Three guys who prob you could argue will have jerseys hanging from the roof with some of the best numbers in our history? They stink? They’re getting thrown away? Prob not.

Trocheck stinks? No

Fox?

Trouba? We loved troubas first 20 games. He just had a baby can we maybe give the guy a break?


They’re going to try and win.

The core group is good? The Rangers are keeping this group together forever? You guys make this group sound like the TB Lightning. The team still the same flaws. The team can't get to the net. They team can't defend in front of the net. Let's add more shiny new toys.

You know they aren’t trading any of those guys I don’t even know why you’d even consider trading Trocheck

The Rangers better find a new way to free up cap space because they will have the same team.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm also always tickled by the fact that "softness" becomes the go to complaint when people don't perform.

No one was complaining about how soft Zibanejad was during the 2022 playoffs when he was leading out team in scoring. He wasn't any tougher/grittier during that run.

I don't need Panarin to smoke someone or give the opposition a dirty look after a whistle, I need him to be productive when it matters. He soft okay but so f***ing what? Thats not why he hasn't been able to produce in the playoffs.

I don't understand why that has to be the default for some of you. I'd love to add more lean and bang on the roster with players who are good, but that isn't easy to do as those guys rarely shake loose (if you want some of that which won't cost that much in a few months, look into Zucker who I would imagine is on their radar anyway.)

Trouba, Lindgren and Goodrow are as "gritty" as it gets. They're 3 of the 5 biggest issues with our team right now.

You know they aren’t trading any of those guys I don’t even know why you’d even consider trading Trocheck

If it falls apart this year I can't see how they run it back with the same group/core.

People who think they are dont watch enough hockey, but I will say they play softer than they have any right to way to much. Definitely among the softer teams that fancy themselves contenders.

And "softness" to me is not fighting and taking penalties after the whistle, its protecting your crease/attacking the other teams, battling hard for pucks around the goal line, abandoning cross ice passes when they arent working. Rangers top guys play a stubborn game that trickles down and hurts the rest of the team. They also dont have each other's backs, which is plain as day. All the leaders should be doing some self reflection during their vacations imo

There is a team currently on a 16 game winning streak that is softer than the Rangers are.

 

[Machinehead]

Given what it takes to make it at this level, I don't like to call anyone soft.

The one guy who has bad habits, I'll say, is Zibanejad.

I don't think habits or play-style is the problem with the team. The problems are rooted in having two many players who were never effective at 5v5, especially those in big roles.

They're a team that's built to be good at special teams and the rest falls where it may.

 

[McRanger92]

I'm also always tickled by the fact that "softness" becomes the go to complaint when people don't perform.

No one was complaining about how soft Zibanejad was during the 2022 playoffs when he was leading out team in scoring. He wasn't any tougher/grittier during that run.

I don't need Panarin to smoke someone or give the opposition a dirty look after a whistle, I need him to be productive when it matters. He soft okay but so f***ing what? Thats not why he hasn't been able to produce in the playoffs.

I don't understand why that has to be the default for some of you. I'd love to add more lean and bang on the roster with players who are good, but that isn't easy to do as those guys rarely shake loose (if you want some of that which won't cost that much in a few months, look into Zucker who I would imagine is on their radar anyway.)

Trouba, Lindgren and Goodrow are as "gritty" as it gets. They're 3 of the 5 biggest issues with our team right now.



If it falls apart this year I can't see how they run it back with the same group/core.



There is a team currently on a 16 game winning streak that is softer than the Rangers are.

Yeah and no one things they are a real contender either

 

[Machinehead]

Yeah and no one things they are a real contender either

I think they are.

You get that team in the playoffs with a healthy McDavid playing 20+ minutes a game, and they can make noise.

 

[SA16]

Why don't we just call up Rempe instead of trading a 1st?

 

[bernmeister]

They're in the same position they were in last deadline because the young players they were relying on to support Zib, Panarin, and Kreider are no shows on the score sheet most nights. Yes Laff has been better but he's not scoring consistently, Kakko cannot score, and Chytil is gone for who knows how long. That's one third of your top 9. Of course the GM is going to look to upgrade the roster. How long do you want him to sit on his ass and pray any of those three live up to their billing when your core, while still productive (even Zib for how awful he's been), is getting up there in age and all have limitations on when and where they can be traded. Are we having any of these conversations right now if Laff and Kakko were the real deals?

For as long as it effing takes for stupid R mgmt to recognize bern is right, properly develop youth from the get go, STOP GIVING FAVORITE TREATMENT TO VETS, etc. and in immediate case of KK, to see him have fair chance on another productive line [have not been smart about using him other than kid line] and see if we can get a good pivot for him and Cuylle.

THAT IS HOW LONG

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yeah and no one things they are a real contender either

Any roster with McDavid is a contender.

Their other players have played well too. They have sort of gotten the forward depth thing figured out.

Their defense is sketch but I figure they'll try to sort that out in the next month.

 

[McRanger92]

Given what it takes to make it at this level, I don't like to call anyone soft.

The one guy who has bad habits, I'll say, is Zibanejad.

I don't think habits or play-style is the problem with the team. The problems are rooted in having two many players who were never effective at 5v5, especially those in big roles.

They're a team that's built to be good at special teams and the rest falls where it may.

Panarin has changed for the better but we had a year and a half of him going for a twirl 5v5 and relying on PP points to justify his production. And I know you love Kreider but the more he plays with Meeka, the worse he looks at even strength despite the charts. The bad habits are also creeping in with young guys like Miller and Kakko, which is another level to my concern with the bad habits as you call them. Miller passes every puck like he is using a pool noodle and Kakko would rather curl along the boards than go to the net, even as he fights for his NHL career. They are following the lead of their (inexplicably) 5 guys who wear letters.

Any roster with McDavid is a contender.

Their other players have played well too. They have sort of gotten the forward depth thing figured out.

Their defense is sketch but I figure they'll try to sort that out in the next month.

I will believe in Principal Skinner when he is drinking out of the Cup

 

[Machinehead]

Panarin has changed for the better but we had a year and a half of him going for a twirl 5v5 and relying on PP points to justify his production. And I know you love Kreider but the more he plays with Meeka, the worse he looks at even strength despite the charts. The bad habits are also creeping in with young guys like Miller and Kakko, which is another level to my concern with the bad habits as you call them. Miller passes every puck like he is using a pool noodle and Kakko would rather curl along the boards than go to the net, even as he fights for his NHL career. They are following the lead of their (inexplicably) 5 guys who wear letters.

I do love Kreider, but I don't disagree that him playing with Zibanejad is like sitting the smart but lazy kid next to the bad kid. They both turn bad.

With Kakko, I kind of agree, but I'm not convinced that's not just the player he is. I don't think Miller plays "wrong," I just think he's an awkward f*** and can't handle the puck. He needs to be put in a situation where he can use what he's good at and his weaknesses will be hidden.

People calling for him to be moved to another pair aren't saying that he's perfect and he's bad just because of Trouba. It's just that you have to do everything playing with Trouba and can't have weaknesses, which he does. That's why I keep suggesting Fox, who's good at everything except skating with the puck, which Miller happens to be great at once he settles it down.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

For as long as it effing takes for stupid R mgmt to recognize bern is right, properly develop youth from the get go, STOP GIVING FAVORITE TREATMENT TO VETS, etc. and in immediate case of KK, to see him have fair chance on another productive line [have not been smart about using him other than kid line] and see if we can get a good pivot for him and Cuylle.

THAT IS HOW LONG

That's just not how it works. The rebuild stalled because the players they drafted haven't lived up to expectations. We've watched Kakko for like four years now. Like him, think he could be a usefull player but he's never going to become an impact player. If the team has a chance to improve and bring in a player with some term, I'm not holding my breath for Kakko to suddenly find his scoring touch, I'm including him in the deal. Evaluate, adjust and move on. There's no waiting around in this league. Everyone else is trying to get better, the Rangers should be too.

 

[Raspewtin]

kinda bored of the gritsters on the team being our worst players every playoffs and this board turning around and saying "yeah that's what we need more of!!!"

to follow up to this - when they do get useful grit, they misuse it.

Dryden Hunt could keep the puck in the offensive zone for hours but he got scratched for the corpse of Reaves

Edstrom came in and had more effect than Boninos entire season in one game and he went right back down after Bonino came back

Cuylle is stapled to borderline/non-NHL players and can't really show off any of his skills, which he has especially on zone entries

 

[McRanger92]

I do love Kreider, but I don't disagree that him playing with Zibanejad is like sitting the smart but lazy kid next to the bad kid. They both turn bad.

With Kakko, I kind of agree, but I'm not convinced that's not just the player he is. I don't think Miller plays "wrong," I just think he's an awkward f*** and can't handle the puck. He needs to be put in a situation where he can use what he's good at and his weaknesses will be hidden.

People calling for him to be moved to another pair aren't saying that he's perfect and he's bad just because of Trouba. It's just that you have to do everything playing with Trouba and can't have weaknesses, which he does. That's why I keep suggesting Fox, who's good at everything except skating with the puck, which Miller happens to be great at once he settles it down.

At the end of the day that is the frustrating thing about the current roster. If Laviolette and Drury wanted to stop coddling the vets, you move Mika to the middle with Cuylle and Kakko to play the puck possession "nothing happens" game. Splitting Miller & Trouba and putting Kandre with Fox, probably makes all 3 guys look much better. And if youre willing to let Kreider play away from Mika, adding a guy like Lindholm to be his center actually makes sense.

Hopefully their plan is to make some lineup changes in this next month, Igor gets his head on straight, and the team actually proves they are as much a contender as their record says. If they do, its hard t justify not going in heavy at the deadline.

My fear is they come back from the break and try to start fresh with with the pre-cooked lines and we keep running in place.

 

[will1066]

Panarin has changed for the better but we had a year and a half of him going for a twirl 5v5 and relying on PP points to justify his production. And I know you love Kreider but the more he plays with Meeka, the worse he looks at even strength despite the charts. The bad habits are also creeping in with young guys like Miller and Kakko, which is another level to my concern with the bad habits as you call them. Miller passes every puck like he is using a pool noodle and Kakko would rather curl along the boards than go to the net, even as he fights for his NHL career. They are following the lead of their (inexplicably) 5 guys who wear letters.



I will believe in Principal Skinner when he is drinking out of the Cup

At the end of the day that is the frustrating thing about the current roster. If Laviolette and Drury wanted to stop coddling the vets, you move Mika to the middle with Cuylle and Kakko to play the puck possession "nothing happens" game. Splitting Miller & Trouba and putting Kandre with Fox, probably makes all 3 guys look much better. And if youre willing to let Kreider play away from Mika, adding a guy like Lindholm to be his center actually makes sense.

Hopefully their plan is to make some lineup changes in this next month, Igor gets his head on straight, and the team actually proves they are as much a contender as their record says. If they do, its hard t justify not going in heavy at the deadline.

My fear is they come back from the break and try to start fresh with with the pre-cooked lines and we keep running in place.

Oh, you know they will.

 

[Fitzy]

Cuylle does have some latent skill that would likely be rewarded with greater production were he to play on a line with offensive producing players.

 

[McRanger92]

Oh, you know they will.

And that is really the point we are all making when we say there are issues with the culture. 6 Guys with A's, no one who wants to be Captain. And dont tell me Trouba is the unquestioned leader. We all know he is just the guy with his life outside hockey most put together and willing to organize events for the team. Fox is the closest thing they have to a real Captain, but how can he when hes the better part of a decade younger than some of the entrenched guys.

 

[Machinehead]

i was pretty agnostic about Kane/Tarasenko when those rumors floated around last year.

I’m actually mad about the Lindholm one lmfao. That would f***ing suck.

The thing with Kane is that it had an air of "why not?" because we got him for so little.

Now, I've been on the record as not even wanting a guy like that for free, but still, it was what it was.

Lindholm is rumored to cost a lot.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I think going for it is the right decision, aging core group that is still in first place despite struggling the past 25 games. There are zero teams in this position that wouldn’t do all they could to bolster the lineup. The issue is who you are adding, Lindholm is going to be someone who is not worth the price he will command. But they should add. I think Larry hinted at it but the idea of a retool makes too much sense after this season and that’s probably what Drury has in mind should they fail again.

 

[will1066]

I do love Kreider, but I don't disagree that him playing with Zibanejad is like sitting the smart but lazy kid next to the bad kid. They both turn bad.

With Kakko, I kind of agree, but I'm not convinced that's not just the player he is. I don't think Miller plays "wrong," I just think he's an awkward f*** and can't handle the puck. He needs to be put in a situation where he can use what he's good at and his weaknesses will be hidden.

People calling for him to be moved to another pair aren't saying that he's perfect and he's bad just because of Trouba. It's just that you have to do everything playing with Trouba and can't have weaknesses, which he does. That's why I keep suggesting Fox, who's good at everything except skating with the puck, which Miller happens to be great at once he settles it down.

Miller plays a soft style, no doubt about it, going for the poke check when he can hit people or angle/rub them out, because he's done so. But his biggest weakness is his reads. Bad reads get him into the bad situations where he either escapes by using his natural abilities or looks really bad. His bad reads would get Fox into troubling situations. No one is immune to poor partner reads.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Re gritsters (good word btw) ... I can never tell when they trade for "grit" whether they think it will help or they are doing it for marketing purposes ... like they can tell the fans about all this rough & tough players & the fans say "Oh yeah!" whether it makes sense or not. Because they're fans & may not even play hockey & their minds have been pickled by decades of Rangers' fandom & associated narratives.

I mean, "grit" to me means being able to impose your will on the game. Get out of your zone though they try to stop you. Stay on the forecheck & make the opponent miserable. Get to their net front.

But the Rangers front office thinks "grit" means hitting the opponent after the puck is gone & all the pointless Tanner Glass s***.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Miller plays a soft style, no doubt about it, going for the poke check when he can hit people, because he's done so. But his biggest weakness is his reads. Bad reads get him into the bad situations where he either escapes by using his natural abilities or looks really bad. His bad reads would get Fox into troubling situations. No one is immune to poor partner reads.

Fox already has to deal with this.

 

[bernmeister]

Kreider and Trouba can be moved his summer. Trocheck can be moved in 2025. Panarin's deal expires in 2027. The core stinks. It's hard for the young guys to become stars playing secondary roles. Lafreniere will be begging to join Kakko with a one way ticket out the door because it's the best thing for his career. Get away from this madness.

The core stinks, but not equally.
Kreider + Tro earn their $$$ and are not bargains but reasonable.
Zib + bread are overpriced; unfortunately, they will be the most difficult to move.
Bread will insist on staying now, but writing on the wall he will let up before the end IF IF IF he gets to go where he wants. [He will not sniff big $$$ from Rs again and it will be embarrassing. They need to have a chat w/him and hopefully he can be moved at least next season. That will not be a picnic and we should not delude ourselves into thinking we will get a haul for selling high. But the structural cap recovery will be worth it.]
Zib also needs to get the talk. He is on/off playing hard, but often not smart. For THAT reason, he's gotta go if/when we can move him w'o paying to do so and recover cap space.
Trouba to DET off season

b'c the above, we need to not give away prosects/futures but strategically go youth for youth

Blais was fine for the team's bottom-six dynamic of being tougher to play against until he blew his knee out. Goodrow clearly doesn't play as much and isn't valued as much for Laviolette as he was for Gallant, but at least he was a 30 point swiss army knife player. Now, not having a good year. Nemeth completely cratered here because the team had no system in place whatsoever. Gorton and JD sucked. If Gorton was so great, why were Laf and Kakko playing third and fourth line during rebuilds that featured the likes of Phil Di Guiseppe and Connor Brickley? Seriously. Horrible.

b'c there is a bias vs youth in favor of vets
mgmt does not want to look bad b'c youth has growing pains
so they go w/ass wipe vets

bern says eff that bs

Kreider's NMC turns into a limited NTC this summer.

If there is any major restructuring this offseason I would guess it starts with him because hes not someone they would have any trouble moving.

Kreider is more part of the solution than the problem
unless I am overwhelmed, no

I doubt he gets 8 years too he’s not a star player he’s 29 years old drury won’t give up real assets like kakko for him without an extension is my guess

And @RangerBoy the core stinks?
Which guy Kreider? Mika? Panarin? Three guys who prob you could argue will have jerseys hanging from the roof with some of the best numbers in our history? They stink? They’re getting thrown away? Prob not.

Trocheck stinks? No

Fox?

Trouba? We loved troubas first 20 games. He just had a baby can we maybe give the guy a break?


They’re going to try and win.

Kreider fine
Zib + bread have not been good value

Im with you that the core has talented enough players to win a Cup but the bottom line is the team is very soft. Too soft to win anything. There is no magic bullet trade that is going to make the core guys play in a straight line when the fancy bullshit fails. They need to go for it but the blame rests on every guy in that locker room who wears a letter. It's not been close to good enough. Too many guys who dont want to lead from the front.

bold 1 = false assumption
bold 2 = wrong, do not throw good assets after bad in desperation

Trouba's no movement clause expires this summer. 15 team NTC next summer. 12 team NTC in 25-26. Two more seasons. The Rangers can retain some of the $8M. They are allowed three retention slots. It's only for two seasons.

Kreider's no movement clause expires this summer. 15 team NTC for the remaining three years.

Trocheck's no movement clause expires next summer. 12 team NTC, 10 team NTC and 6 team NTC in each pf the last two seasons.

The Rangers can change the core next summer.

Yes, we can/should get started sooner than later, but as above, Trouba is the one we move of those 3.