Proposal: Roster Building Thread Part IV: High Hopes

[RGY]

And then there's the in between, which is that I don't think at all the Andersson was a reach at 7, but I do think that the return on Stepan+Raanta was disappointing. There either should have been a 3rd asset in there or the prospect/young player should have been one of the Coyotes promising young Cs.

This I can very much agree with. I think I would have been much more ok with Andersson at 7 if we got one of the Coyotes top young centers in the deal. We provided them with a Top Veteran Center who is still fairly young and their starting goalie. We didnt get nearly enough back for that.

 

[Ghost of jas]

While I would have liked an additional asset in the Stepan deal, people are overlooking the fact that the Rangers essentially dumped $7 million in cap space, which is the equivalent of a 1st and a 2nd round pick these days. As for Andersson, I wanted Glass, and probably would have preferred either Middlestadt or Liljegren. But, all I heard about Villardi was his skating issues, and Tippett and Rasmussen had other red flags. And, many sites had Andersson as a riser. Even Middlestadt had questions about his conditioning and focus.

 

[East Coast Bias]

And then there's the in between, which is that I don't think at all the Andersson was a reach at 7, but I do think that the return on Stepan+Raanta was disappointing. There either should have been a 3rd asset in there or the prospect/young player should have been one of the Coyotes promising young Cs.

This perfectly sums up how I feel about the deal as well.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Would anyone else LOL as hard as I would if Markov now signs with Nashville and the Preds win the cup with Subban and Markov?

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

And then there's the in between, which is that I don't think at all the Andersson was a reach at 7, but I do think that the return on Stepan+Raanta was disappointing. There either should have been a 3rd asset in there or the prospect/young player should have been one of the Coyotes promising young Cs.

100% agreed. My guess is that Gorton wanted more for Stepan, but the market was limited and the clock was ticking, so he pulled the trigger on the best deal available before the draft. I very much get the sense that management wanted no part of Stepan in two years at $6.5MM AAV and a NMC, especially in light of the experiences with Staal and Girardi.

And while I was chomping at the bit for Pettersson, when the top six fell the way they did, I honestly didn't have a preferred alternative. I was just deflated that no one ahead of them made a mistake and let one of the top six fall.

 

[EpicDing]

Would anyone else LOL as hard as I would if Markov now signs with Nashville and the Preds win the cup with Subban and Markov?

That would be pure gold.

 

[bigdog16]

While I would have liked an additional asset in the Stepan deal, people are overlooking the fact that the Rangers essentially dumped $7 million in cap space, which is the equivalent of a 1st and a 2nd round pick these days. As for Andersson, I wanted Glass, and probably would have preferred either Middlestadt or Liljegren. But, all I heard about Villardi was his skating issues, and Tippett and Rasmussen had other red flags. And, many sites had Andersson as a riser. Even Middlestadt had questions about his conditioning and focus.

I think 7 would be too early for Liljegren. Mittelstadt maybe, but too many question marks around him and I would've felt uneasy about his future. I think we made a good pick.

 

[Ghost of jas]

As for draft rankings, most rankings had Griffin Reinhardt higher than Brady Skjei, Ryan Strome higher than Mark Schiefele, and Burmistrov higher than Kuznetsov. Draft rankings are nowhere near infallible.

 

[bigdog16]

As for draft rankings, most rankings had Griffin Reinhardt higher than Brady Skjei, Ryan Strome higher than Mark Schiefele, and Burmistrov higher than Kuznetsov. Draft rankings are nowhere near infallible.

Thats true. But Skjei and Schiefele were two really late bloomers. Kuznetsov mostly due to the Russian factor, Burmistrov was already in NA at the time

 

[Fugazy]

Would anyone else LOL as hard as I would if Markov now signs with Nashville and the Preds win the cup with Subban and Markov?

That would be legendary

 

[silverfish]

As for draft rankings, most rankings had Griffin Reinhardt higher than Brady Skjei, Ryan Strome higher than Mark Schiefele, and Burmistrov higher than Kuznetsov. Draft rankings are nowhere near infallible.

No doubt. Which is why I cited the draft rankings, and my own personal opinion.

Draft rankings are wrong a lot. They're also right a lot. They're not the end all be all. I'm also not claiming that my opinion is any more or less meaningful than anyone elses.

 

[cwede]

with Aug 1 this Tuesday, meaning Aug 15 getting close,
here is the HFB listing of pending NCAA UFAs
I removed guys who have signed AHL/ECHL deals

Toninato has been discussed here already,
IMHO he is promising, and a good fit as a C and playing all round top 3 F minutes at Duluth last 2 years
Maybe joining Pionk and Kotyk gives NYR an edge

curious if you guys have insights into any of the others, beyond the commonly discussed Butcher, Kerfoot and Toninato

if the chart UNSIGNED NCAA PLAYERS is fully up-to-date
at
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=122654931&postcount=2

then there are 19 guys becoming UFA Aug 15

UNSIGNED NCAA PLAYERS (Must be Signed by July 1st)
TEAM NAME POS AGE HEIGHT WEIGHT TEAM LEAGUE YR RD OV NOTES
CAR Olson, Collin G 23 6.04 209 Western Michigan NCAA 2012 6 159
DET McKee, Mike D 23 6.05 249 Western Michigan NCAA 2012 5 140
SJS Watson, Cliff D 23 6.02 190 Michigan Tech NCAA 2012 6 168
ARI Clifton, Connor D 22 5.11 194 Quinnipiac NCAA 2013 5 133
COL Butcher, Will D 22 5.10 190 Denver NCAA 2013 5 123
MIN De Jong, Nolan D 22 6.02 203 Michigan NCAA 2013 7 197
NYI Somerby, Doyle D 22 6.05 225 Boston University NCAA 2012 5 125
SJS Ausmus, Gage D 22 6.01 216 North Dakota NCAA 2013 5 151
ARI Soleway, Jedd C 23 6.03 220 Wisconsin NCAA 2013 7 193
CBJ Quenneville, Peter C 23 5.11 192 Aalborg Denmark 2013 7 195
NAS Stepan, Zach C 23 6.00 174 Minnesota-Mankato NCAA 2012 4 112
OTT Baillargeon, Robbie C 23 6.00 165 Arizona State NCAA 2012 5 136
TOR Toninato, Dominic C 23 6.02 194 Minnesota-Duluth NCAA 2012 5 126
NJD Kerfoot, Alex C 22 5.10 174 Harvard NCAA 2012 5 150
PIT Byron, Blaine C 22 6.00 172 Maine NCAA 2013 6 179
DET De Haas, James D 23 6.03 216 Clarkson NCAA 2012 6 170
CAR Collier, Brendan LW 23 5.09 176 Northeastern NCAA 2012 7 189
ANA Besse, Grant LW 22 5.10 174 Wisconsin NCAA 2013 5 147
CHI Calnan, Chris RW 23 6.02 203 Boston College NCAA 2012 3 79

 

[Savant]

Replying so you know I'm not ignoring you, but I have no desire to get into a conversation about the qualifications of players via GM opinions

If you believe scouting rankings, they unequivocally reached. And I think you're totally right that they went with the 'safe' guy. It seems that in the worst case scenario, LA is a good middle-6 center. But, his best case scenario and worst case scenario are awfully close, hence 'safe'.

Mittlestadt, Tippet, Vilardi, and Rasmussen are all further away from the NHL than Andersson is (though I'd argue that Tippet may be just as close), but I firmly believe they all have higher ceilings than LA does. Rasmussen is arguable, but Tippet, Mittlestadt, and Vilardi all have top-line potential because they all bring more offense to the table than LA.

Again, this is all my opinion.

I don't mind them going "safe" for Andersson. They really needed to go "safe" with the state of their system. Chytil was their home run swing and it's looking pretty good.

 

[Levitate]

I kind of forget that Raanta was in the deal too and yeah it is frustrating they didn't get more with him in there as well, but goalies seem to have very little value

I think the Rangers also possibly value DeAngelo higher than some around here do

 

[Off Sides]

It seems to me that the Rangers are taking a half to a full step back this year. They don't want to fall so far that they'll miss the playoffs but it's a bit of regrouping of things.

I think the window has closed on Lundqvist carrying the team through 4 playoff series on his own and that the Rangers are not going to be real contenders for a Cup until we have another goalie to take over from him and it's not Pavelec or Halverson. So this realigning of pieces and going younger while maintaining playoff viability is what they might be aiming for. With that in mind Nash, Zucc, Grabner and Staal are placeholders and the only one of them that might be around for the next time we start to push to the top is Zuccarello but it will have to happen kind of fast.

My hunch would be Nash who is on his last year of his contract will be gone by the TDL. Very good player but he always underwhelmed. Staal--I would buy out right now--there is no trade value--if not this year next year. Too much money for a bottom pairing d-man at best and IMO there are at least three rookies that would be better options this year than him.

I don't think they took a step back, more a step sideways. I guess maybe it more hinges on how well Pavelec does as the backup.

I think the defense is vastly improved but the center position is weaker. They balance out IMO with the possibility of the team being better if the defense really performs well.

I think people also aren't looking at what management is doing realistically. Or at least, people are saying "I think they should do this and management isn't doing that". The Rangers are obviously still trying to position themselves to make another run at the cup, while also trying to get younger to keep the team competitive in the future. People may not agree that what they're doing furthers those ends, but if they really though "we can't/don't want to contend' tehy would trade assets like Nash, Zucc, etc

This is why I am not sure what type of team they are trying to be, who trades arguably their best center for futures and is still thinking contention.

And rebuilding, they got those futures but they also rented Smith, gave Zbad a NMC, and I think they'll rent again this deadline if in position.

If just seems to me like two different directions and it based on what time of year it is and where the current team is.

They bought picks right before the draft, which is when they are their most expensive, they sold picks at the trade deadlines when they are worth their least. They sign players as UFAs when they are the most expensive they ever will be in their careers.

If the overall idea is to win a cup or cups, I just don't see how that back and forth culminates into it. To me it looks far more like the "anything can happen" if they make the playoffs plan, where they are hoping for the lower probability of anything happening good for them instead of building towards giving themselves a higher probability by planning to have everything come together at some certain future point.

 

[Thirty One]

I kind of forget that Raanta was in the deal too and yeah it is frustrating they didn't get more with him in there as well, but goalies seem to have very little value

I think the Rangers also possibly value DeAngelo higher than some around here do

I'm of the opinion that if Raanta carried little value in a trade, you keep Raanta.

 

[Kovalev27]

DeAngelo has a lot of talent and you get a 7th back in essence sending full salary to AZ taking nothing back. That was a good trade

Raanta is not a great goalie. He's ok. We weren't getting much back for him.

I love our off-season thus far. The question now is what do u do with staal Holden? One or both have to go. They didn't bring Bereglazov over here to sit in the press box and they aren't losing him to the KHL.

They've got to turn those two guys in a center some how.

 

[eco's bones]

I don't think they took a step back, more a step sideways. I guess maybe it more hinges on how well Pavelec does as the backup.

I think the defense is vastly improved but the center position is weaker. They balance out IMO with the possibility of the team being better if the defense really performs well.

I think people also aren't looking at what management is doing realistically. Or at least, people are saying "I think they should do this and management isn't doing that". The Rangers are obviously still trying to position themselves to make another run at the cup, while also trying to get younger to keep the team competitive in the future. People may not agree that what they're doing furthers those ends, but if they really though "we can't/don't want to contend' tehy would trade assets like Nash, Zucc, etc

Well we're still in the middle of summer and I don't think the Rangers are done. I'm half expecting them to make a move on a center--which one is the question. My main concern is they don't move Brady Skjei to get that player. If they don't shore up that position I do think they will take a half step/full step back.

There's a certain continuity that comes with making the playoffs. That's important I think. Once a team stops making the playoffs you can never be too sure when they'll start making them again. Where the team is positioned in late February could make a difference on whether players like Nash or Grabner or Zuccarello are moved or not--could make a difference whether we trade our first again--though I'm getting the idea that Gorton is much less likely to move a first than Sather. Having cap space is also something that can help a team with moves at the deadline. If we can position ourselves to sneak in at 7 or 8 and move Nash for a 1st or + at the deadline that would be optimum.

The other thing I'm looking at concerns college free agents--the Hobey Baker winner Will Butcher has announced he won't be signing with the Avalanche and will be free in August as well as Alex Kerfoot and Dominic Toninato. I would like to see (and with recent history I think there's strong possibility) the Rangers grab one of those guys and if I had a choice it would be Butcher.

 

[Raspewtin]

\
Anyway, I'm not as high on this off-season thus far as everyone else.

The Stepan trade was bad. i'm not sure the actual trade was bad, moreso the reasoning behind it frustrated me at least.

The Andersson pick was a reach. I don't quite understand this when you follow it up with wanting Rasmussen, the Lawson Crouse of this draft.

B. Smith is overpaid. he's overpaid in that you really want(ed) Franson as a better option but not according to the market. which is the only fair evaluation.

Buying out Girardi was good.

The Shattenkirk deal is great, but how much of that was actually Gorton and how much of that was Shattenkirk? - totally unfair evaluation and you know it.

DD - whatever move.

Not bridging Zibanejad was good.

Overall: Good.

I find this evaluation really unfair for the comments above.

 

[Levitate]

I just don't think that overhauling the defense but losing Stepan means a full step back.

I dunno I can see what the Rangers are trying to do and to my mind it's not "what are they doing it doesn't make sense!" and more "is this the right thing to be doing"

They're trying to change the makeup of the team, future proof it, and still remain in that spot where if they hit a good stretch of play in the playoffs they could go deep and possibly contend. They're trying to walk a lot of fine edges instead of going all in one way or another...it's a tough line to walk, it can certainly be argued they shouldn't be doing it, but we'll have to see how it pans out since what we complain about obviously isn't going to matter

 

[silverfish]

I find this evaluation really unfair for the comments above.

I think the actual trade was bad. If that's the best that JG could get for Stepan, he should've said: "thanks, but no thanks", and been more than happy to keep him.

I mentioned later on that Rassumussen is debatable.

Correct. I'm not saying that in a vacuum I want Franson more than Smith. I'm saying that I'd rather have Franson at 1 than Smith at 4.35.

I don't know how unfair it is. All reports point to Shattenkirk coming to the Rangers with that deal, and not vice versa. Bully to JG for saying "yes" to an obvious move? Not from me. I'm ecstatic that we have Shattenkirk on that deal, but I'm hesitant to give credit to Gorton for it. Whoever was GM of the Rangers at this moment would make the same deal. It wasn't JG dependent, it was Rangers dependent.

 

[NickyFotiu]

And then there's the in between, which is that I don't think at all the Andersson was a reach at 7, but I do think that the return on Stepan+Raanta was disappointing. There either should have been a 3rd asset in there or the prospect/young player should have been one of the Coyotes promising young Cs.

100% agreed. My guess is that Gorton wanted more for Stepan, but the market was limited and the clock was ticking, so he pulled the trigger on the best deal available before the draft. I very much get the sense that management wanted no part of Stepan in two years at $6.5MM AAV and a NMC, especially in light of the experiences with Staal and Girardi.

And while I was chomping at the bit for Pettersson, when the top six fell the way they did, I honestly didn't have a preferred alternative. I was just deflated that no one ahead of them made a mistake and let one of the top six fall.

I think the team is happy with the Step trade especially after they signed Shatty. I personally was hoping we could steal Max Domi. I think their only significant disappointment may have come from their hope that they could trade #7 and move down lower. Still when #7 came up they wasted no time drafting Anderson. I always find it weird that a team will not use all their allotted time just in case another team calls with a trade offer.

 

[Miamipuck]

I think the actual trade was bad. If that's the best that JG could get for Stepan, he should've said: "thanks, but no thanks", and been more than happy to keep him.

I mentioned later on that Rassumussen is debatable.

Correct. I'm not saying that in a vacuum I want Franson more than Smith. I'm saying that I'd rather have Franson at 1 than Smith at 4.35.

I don't know how unfair it is. All reports point to Shattenkirk coming to the Rangers with that deal, and not vice versa. Bully to JG for saying "yes" to an obvious move? Not from me. I'm ecstatic that we have Shattenkirk on that deal, but I'm hesitant to give credit to Gorton for it. Whoever was GM of the Rangers at this moment would make the same deal. It wasn't JG dependent, it was Rangers dependent.

You could also say that JG's flat out refusal to give a 6+ year deal made Shattenkirk acquiesce and come to JG with the ultimate deal they settled on.

The evidence points to that being more of the case then the contract just being thrown into JG's lap and he was just the recipient of good fortune.

He wouldn't be a Ranger if he insisted on the longer term. imo

 

[Gardner McKay]

So... Markov isn't going back to Montreal. Their GM is up there as one of the worst in the league. Any chance we could send Staal to Montreal?

 

[Thirty One]

I think the actual trade was bad. If that's the best that JG could get for Stepan, he should've said: "thanks, but no thanks", and been more than happy to keep him.

I mentioned later on that Rassumussen is debatable.

Correct. I'm not saying that in a vacuum I want Franson more than Smith. I'm saying that I'd rather have Franson at 1 than Smith at 4.35.

I don't know how unfair it is. All reports point to Shattenkirk coming to the Rangers with that deal, and not vice versa. Bully to JG for saying "yes" to an obvious move? Not from me. I'm ecstatic that we have Shattenkirk on that deal, but I'm hesitant to give credit to Gorton for it. Whoever was GM of the Rangers at this moment would make the same deal. It wasn't JG dependent, it was Rangers dependent.

I will give Gorton credit for playing hard to get with a player motivated to come to the Rangers.

Was Andersson a reach at 7? I don't know. The only scouting organization that I know for sure had him ranked higher than 13 is the New York Rangers, though.