Speculation: Roster Building Thread: New Season Edition

[RGY]

I hope this team performs much better than they did last year so that the unsustainable argument doesn't even have the opportunity to assemble.



I agree with the overrated portion of it considering that there were a few people here who had him penciled in as a long term fixture and even a few who wanted to move Fox off of the PP for him but I wouldn't categorize him as soft. Lets not get it twisted, MOST of this board thought he was going to be a NHL ready shoe in from day 1 (they were half right.)

Though I wouldn't call him soft. If anything, his most redeeming quality at the NHL level was how willing he was to play through contact. It was a problem because it happened way to often because he couldn't skate around/away from anyone and at his size he just isn't going to win those battles very often, but it wasn't for a lack of effort or being afraid to get hit/tied up.

I just dont find him to be overrated. He was doing things in the SHL that many before him had not done at his age. His trajectory was upward. I still think it is. I think he has a lot of the tools to be a successful defenseman in the NHL. He has the fluid skating, the passing ability with a good first outlet pass, the heavy shot, and he can be elusive to avoid big contact. I for one was not one of those guys ready to so easily pencil him into the lineup period let alone bumping Fox off of PP1. I think he has some growing and developing to do. I think if you are realistic and objective he is rated just fine, but if you are someone that had him in the top 4 from Day 1 and a guaranteed fixture moving forward then yes that small faction certainly overrated him.

 

[Levitate]

Panarin's issues last year at 5v5 stemmed from him doing more stupid shit than normal. Whether or not that was just because of a combo gone bad or age related regression I'm not sure (perhaps both), but it was there for most of the year.

The thing to me, and this isn't really easy to prove I think, is that in previous years his passing seemed to be locked on. He'd identify targets and find players you didn't think were there and he did it like clockwork.

Last season it felt like he spent all season forcing those passes. Lot of prayers thrown across the ice instead of passes with intention. Maybe it was teams adjusting, maybe it was a change in his play, maybe it was bad luck, but there seemed to be something missing in his puck management.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I just dont find him to be overrated. He was doing things in the SHL that many before him had not done at his age. His trajectory was upward. I still think it is. I think he has a lot of the tools to be a successful defenseman in the NHL. He has the fluid skating, the passing ability with a good first outlet pass, the heavy shot, and he can be elusive to avoid big contact. I for one was not one of those guys ready to so easily pencil him into the lineup period let alone bumping Fox off of PP1. I think he has some growing and developing to do. I think if you are realistic and objective he is rated just fine, but if you are someone that had him in the top 4 from Day 1 and a guaranteed fixture moving forward then yes that small faction certainly overrated him.

There is context that is needed here.

At his age, most of the top Swedish defensemen were already playing in the NHL. If Erik Karlsson were still in the SHL at 21, he wouldn't have sniffed any record. Adam Fox would have absolutely massacred the SHL in his D+3 season.

As to your second sentence, I disagree with all of the bolded and thats the crux of the issue with Nils. Those aren't things that you generally get better at with experience and as an undersized defender, those are things that you need to do well.

The thing to me, and this isn't really easy to prove I think, is that in previous years his passing seemed to be locked on. He'd identify targets and find players you didn't think were there and he did it like clockwork.

Last season it felt like he spent all season forcing those passes. Lot of prayers thrown across the ice instead of passes with intention. Maybe it was teams adjusting, maybe it was a change in his play, maybe it was bad luck, but there seemed to be something missing in his puck management.

No thats how I saw it too.

 

[IDvsEGO]

His career shooting percentage is 14.3. Last season was 12.4. That is well within a normal range.

He led the team in EVEN-STRENGTH scoring despite playing with linemates far inferior to Kreider and Zib.

If he wasn't under a big contract, he'd be universally beloved by the fanbase. Some fans turn on players as their contracts rise.

People here bitched about Kreider's contract, Zib's contract, Goodrow's contract, Trouba's contract etc,.

Some fans seem to believe that you should be able to put out a Stanley Cup contender every season without getting close to the Cap. Good luck with that strategy.

Metrics matter, but not more than results.

By the way, Schneider was a disaster by the metrics as the season wore on, including in the playoffs, yet some here think he's already a stud.

No schneider absolutely wore down. But he also was partnered with nemeth for a huge chunk of that time, and early in the season he was really good.
That being said he now gets to start the season in the NHL likely with a better LD.

a 2% drop isnt a "normal range" thats not within standard deviation. That means he's shooting from further out, and shooting less. One season isn't a trend though and if he goes back to being himself next season he's absolutely fine.

But remember that in 19-20 he was on pace for a 120+ point season before the season cancelled. Thats the level of player thats worth a 11.6m contract.

 

[GAGLine]

Elliotte Friedman discussed the salary cap in the latest 32T podcast. The NHLPA are hopeful the cap will go up next summer while the NHL sees a $1M increase next summer and the cap increases the following summer. The NHL and the NHLPA need to have a discussion.

The MOU has a provision for the NHL and NHLPA to work out a staggered increase. I think that's what they will ultimately do. Even if it doesn't start next summer, we will see it by 2024.

 

[chosen]

No schneider absolutely wore down. But he also was partnered with nemeth for a huge chunk of that time, and early in the season he was really good.
That being said he now gets to start the season in the NHL likely with a better LD.

a 2% drop isnt a "normal range" thats not within standard deviation. That means he's shooting from further out, and shooting less. One season isn't a trend though and if he goes back to being himself next season he's absolutely fine.

But remember that in 19-20 he was on pace for a 120+ point season before the season cancelled. Thats the level of player thats worth a 11.6m contract.

What a player is worth is what a team is willing to pay him and the numbers will continue to rise with time.

 

[IDvsEGO]

What a player is worth is what a team is willing to pay him and the numbers will continue to rise with time.

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yup. The panarin deal would look fine if one of two things happened. the cap went up OR he continued playing at his 120+ point pace.
Last season neither happened.
If the cap had been going up at the previous pace, we might've been able to make a bid for kadri, and lock up all the kids.
Since that didnt happen, we can only say that panarin's previous season was not a surplus value for his contract. Surplus value contracts are how you win stanley cups.

 

[chosen]

yup. The panarin deal would look fine if one of two things happened. the cap went up OR he continued playing at his 120+ point pace.
Last season neither happened.
If the cap had been going up at the previous pace, we might've been able to make a bid for kadri, and lock up all the kids.
Since that didnt happen, we can only say that panarin's previous season was not a surplus value for his contract. Surplus value contracts are how you win stanley cups.

I think when you lead the forwards on your team in even-strength points despite not being on the first line, you're holding up your end of the contract.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Elliotte Friedman discussed the salary cap in the latest 32T podcast. The NHLPA are hopeful the cap will go up next summer while the NHL sees a $1M increase next summer and the cap increases the following summer. The NHL and the NHLPA need to have a discussion.

If the owners want to keep the letter of the agreement then absolutely it wont go up until the following summer, where it will jump around 10-15m. And the owners will bitch about it jumping 10-15m, and call the players greedy and say that this isnt sustainable.
The players are going to argue, raise it 5m next , 5-7 the following, slow and steady growth rather than shafting three straight UFA classes.

The players are right, but the owners have the agreement on their side.
They may ask for something from the players, and the players should tell them to go to hell.

I think when you lead the forwards on your team in even-strength points despite not being on the first line, you're holding up your end of the contract.

Not being on the first line as defined by what? Panarin typically led all forwards in ice time.

 

[mas0764]

I think the report we got (which might not be the official version) was that kratsov wasnt entirely in shape and then he got hurt. They wanted him to get some conditioning minutes in hfd. It wasnt about prioritizing blais, it was about kratsov not coming into camp already in shape.
Kratsov in the nhl wasnt getting 20 minutes a game. In the A he could definitely get that for a few weeks to get him into shape.

Yeah, that was the report, but I don’t buy it for a second. He looked fine in the preseason.

They sent him down because they think he should be in better shape, but IMO it’s also cover for they wanted him to play harder for a too 6 spot, which they handed to f***ing Dryden Hunt over him instead. And they weren’t gonna let him get in shape on the third or fourth lines because those are their checking lines and they weren’t gonna allow skilled youth on those lines at that point of the season due to their philosophy. It was a horrible idea.

 

[mas0764]

How exactly should a team showcase a player, while also trying to win games and develop chemistry among new lines?
We're not in tank mode anymore.

There is a middle ground between tank mode and being foolishly overcommitted to winning right now and the Rangers are stupidly not in that middle ground.

 

[Ola]

Duncan from the Geico commercial

In the 3 on 3 action vid — that is a really nice move by Sykora on the last guy, that is high class. He is all over the ice too, Sykora-Henriksson-Othman, that is a good line. Looking forward to see what they can do against Philly.

 

[mike14]

Yeah, that was the report, but I don’t buy it for a second. He looked fine in the preseason.

They sent him down because they think he should be in better shape, but IMO it’s also cover for they wanted him to play harder for a too 6 spot, which they handed to f***ing Dryden Hunt over him instead. And they weren’t gonna let him get in shape on the third or fourth lines because those are their checking lines and they weren’t gonna allow skilled youth on those lines at that point of the season due to their philosophy. It was a horrible idea.

In the first 10 games of the season Hunt never played more than the 5th least minutes on the team, which he did once. 5 times he played the least minutes, once he was second last (when Reaves played 1 min), once 3rd last and once 4th last.
You don't have to like how Kravtsov (or hunt) were handled, but lets not make up shit about Hunt being handed 2nd line duties

 

[chosen]

If the owners want to keep the letter of the agreement then absolutely it wont go up until the following summer, where it will jump around 10-15m. And the owners will bitch about it jumping 10-15m, and call the players greedy and say that this isnt sustainable.
The players are going to argue, raise it 5m next , 5-7 the following, slow and steady growth rather than shafting three straight UFA classes.

The players are right, but the owners have the agreement on their side.
They may ask for something from the players, and the players should tell them to go to hell.


Not being on the first line as defined by what? Panarin typically led all forwards in ice time.

As defined by you.

Who do you believe was the Number 1 line on the Rangers last season?

 

[IDvsEGO]

As defined by you.

Who do you believe was the Number 1 line on the Rangers last season?

I think we had two lines which would qualify as #1.
Both Mika and Panarin were around similar ice times.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

I asked it earlier but didn't get an answer.

Is Panarin there yet? After his season last year, it would be nice if he showed up early and took this camp as seriously as possible.

He scored career high in points, lead the team in points (15 more than Zibanejad).

 

[IDvsEGO]

There is a middle ground between tank mode and being foolishly overcommitted to winning right now and the Rangers are stupidly not in that middle ground.

So the rangers who made the ECF shouldn't commit to winning right now? That is absolutely the most insane take ive heard on this board in a while, and that includes edjovo.

The Rangers have a young core, a fantastic goaltender. There is absolutely no reason not to go for it (without trading our A prospect).
Our expectation for last season was to make the first round.
We got out of the first round, and won the second.

The expectations this year should be 2-3 rounds minimum.

You don't lessen expectations from the past year just because you want to hedge your bet...

He scored career high in points, lead the team in points (15 more than Zibanejad).

He also had his lowest PPG season as a ranger. And his lowest shooting percentage since he was on chicago.

 

[egelband]

Excited for so many of these young kids but Cuylle especially because of his physicality

That kind of play can translate even if he's not quite ready offensively. Maybe this is our Reaves replacement. At least at some point.

 

[GAGLine]

He scored career high in points, lead the team in points (15 more than Zibanejad).

Strome had more points than Trocheck. Which player would you rather have on the Rangers?

Points aren't everything.

 

[Kocur26]

 

[egelband]

Elliotte Friedman discussed the salary cap in the latest 32T podcast. The NHLPA are hopeful the cap will go up next summer while the NHL sees a $1M increase next summer and the cap increases the following summer. The NHL and the NHLPA need to have a discussion.

Yeah. The league is going to have to find a way to raise the cap sooner rather than later. Not even keeping up with inflation while every other big league has been back on track for a while is ‘bad optics’. Not good for the league.

 

[egelband]

There is a middle ground between tank mode and being foolishly overcommitted to winning right now and the Rangers are stupidly not in that middle ground.

Case in point. The Mets right now. Not in the sense that they’re showcasing kids. But they’re not going balls-to-the-wall to win every game. They’re letting underperformed guys play and get back on their game. There’s usually a middle ground during the regular season.

 

[McRanger92]

There is a middle ground between tank mode and being foolishly overcommitted to winning right now and the Rangers are stupidly not in that middle ground.

What does this even mean? I know you hate Drury and every player over the age of 25, but what have they done that makes you think they are "foolishly overcommitted" to winning? They have all their draft picks, haven't traded any prospects for win now players. Even the ones who demand trades are guys no other team is willing to pay up for. I am genuinely curious why you think this way.

 

[TominNC]

There is a middle ground between tank mode and being foolishly overcommitted to winning right now and the Rangers are stupidly not in that middle ground.

We should be much closer to fully committed than to tank mode. And we should be for several seasons.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Lemieux said in a text message to Newsday on Thursday that Lundkvist remains in Sweden, waiting for the Rangers to trade him. Lemieux said Lundkvist requested the trade in January after the team sent him down to AHL Hartford.

Nils Lundkvist still in Sweden as agent says defenseman wants to be traded

Rangers GM Chris Drury declined to confirm the trade request and would not say if he was attempting to trade the defenseman.

www.newsday.com