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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: New Season Edition

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Boris Zubov said:
I had this suspicion long before you confirmed it by posting here. I think a lot of people severely underestimated how much damage was sustained when Wilson slammed him into the ice. He's so lucky his head wasn't the first body part to make contact with the ice.
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If it wasn’t a head injury, what do you suppose it was? Shoulder? This is actually the first I’ve heard Panarin’s lack of impact traced to the Wilson garbage.
 
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Must have been hard being a Ranger in the late ‘70s
This many days until opening night: 😃
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bleedblue94 said:
And? Malik was over a plus 30 twice in his career and no one would say he was a great 5v5 player.

The value of plus minus as a stat has been destroyed over the years, it is a horrible thing to rely on in an argument.

You would be hard pressed to have people agree that he was good 5v5 last year with a 49.8 cf percentage from a guy making what he is making...
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Malik was a pretty under-rated steady defenseman. He was a career +133. Everyone knows +/- is flawed. But at after a while it points to a trend. Back then it was the most advanced stat they really had before people started using actual advanced stats in hockey. They only started developing it around the first coupleof seasons post-lockout. Natural Stat Trick only goes back to 07-08. A quick check on hockey reference only logs his last two seasons in the NHL with any form of advanced stats. His last season with the Rangers (07-08) he was 52.5 CF% at 5v5. Which is good. And that wasn't his best season with the Rangers. I bet his 06-07 CF% at 5v5 was higher.

He also scored the slickest goal in NYR history.
 
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bleedblue94 said:
And? Malik was over a plus 30 twice in his career and no one would say he was a great 5v5 player.

The value of plus minus as a stat has been destroyed over the years, it is a horrible thing to rely on in an argument.

You would be hard pressed to have people agree that he was good 5v5 last year with a 49.8 cf percentage from a guy making what he is making...
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With today’s metrics I think many would have called him a great player.
 
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bleedblue94 said:
Ice said repeatedly that I know for fact there was a significant injury on the Wilson incident. This isn't speculation. I know this for fact. He has been a different player since that incident, not since COVID.

It isn't the linemates. You are drawing the metaphor of a great QB. A great QB can have a good ol and wideouts but once he is playing w a level of fear of getting injured he won't be the same. No one can play a contact sport with a conscious fear of getting injured (again), every athlete will tell you that it just changes you as a player.
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wait, you're complaining that he's a top paid player 'not producing' but you know for a fact he's injured, and that's why he's not producing at the same level. pick one.

He sucked at the play in. He was not the same in the season he got ragdolled. Injury may have been an exclamation point but it was not the only factor. Why has he looked more like old Panarin when Strome isn't on the ice with him? He played different with Copp and he's playing different now.
 
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bleedblue94 said:
Beyond physical damage there can be psychological affects to a player after an injury that makes them play not to get hurt. Once that happens it is very hard to change. A great example of that was lindross. When he came to nyr he was still playing guarded and wasn't terribly effective. He eventually shifted back to the more impactful player he had been. I remember an interview where he basically said as much and he was playing like himself again until he had another head injury which basically finished him.
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you're inferring he had a concussion? otherwise that injuries are not the same and that analogy doesn't stick. Lindros was sent to another dimension. That changes you permanently. The most recent example was Rick Nash who had back2back head trauma

You have to start to trusting yourself after any non head-injury. It normally takes a year to get back closer to 'normal'
 
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At what point is this team best served to make the kid line a top two line and
duhmetreE said:
wait, you're complaining that he's a top paid player 'not producing' but you know for a fact he's injured. That doesn't compute.

He sucked at the play in. He was not the same in the season. Injury may have been an exclamation point but it was not the only factor. Why has he looked more like old Panarin when Strome isn't on the ice with him? He played different with Copp and he's playing different now.
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I didn't say he is currently injured, in fact during the playoffs when everyone kept saying "he must be hurt that's why he's playing so badly" I kept saying he wasn't hurt and he himself confirmed that after they were eliminated. What I said before was I knew he was hurt in the Wilson incident with an injury that also affected his training last summer, which is part of why he looked out of shape when he came to camp. I have rarely criticized panarin's physical status (truthfully for a man his size he is incredibly strong in pick battles when he wants to engage), but I have been criticizing his willingness to go to traffic in the middle of the ice and the affects that has on opening up the kind of passing lanes he typically thrives on. This isn't a physical thing with him now, it is a mentality.

The play in against the canes is irrelevant to anything we are talking about here. It was 3 games after a long break and the entire team looked like ass. That has nothing to do with this.

Right now I don't see "old panarin," I see an ELITE talent carving up preseason rosters that are maybe 50 percent NHL quality players. Let's see what happens when the league settles in. It's usually about 20 games into a season until teams start falling into their structure consistently. Let's see if he's "old panarin" then. It is entirely a mentality thing w him right now.
 
RGY said:
Except that’s not the case here. He just sucks and is not suited for the NHL.
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I don’t think either of us can say definitively whether his development was affirmatively harmed by coaching he received (or lack of it), or whether it’s 100% his fault.

My guess is some of both.

bleedblue94 said:
At what point is this team best served to make the kid line a top two line and
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Kreider to the third line ;)
 
duhmetreE said:
you're inferring he had a concussion? otherwise that injuries are not the same and that analogy doesn't stick. Lindros was sent to another dimension. That changes you permanently. The most recent example was Rick Nash who had back2back head trauma

You have to start to trusting yourself after any non head-injury. It normally takes a year to get back closer to 'normal'
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I am not disclosing the exact injury information and I haven't regardless how much I've been pressed on it before. I think most people with sense can figure some of it out.

Nash is another good example of what I was saying although Nash is an example of a guy who's game never really recovered from his head trauma and it had last effects on his willingness to aggressively attack the house area. He became the king of skate wide and shoot it at the net from the outside instead of driving to the net the way he did prior to the head injuries. I don't fault him for that either, these guys have their entire lives ahead of them and living with scrambled eggs for brains isn't something any of them should be forced to do. I was actually happy Nash retired when he did for his own sake.
 
Rodolfo Lassparri said:
View attachment 591371
Must have been hard being a Ranger in the late ‘70s
This many days until opening night: 😃
View attachment 591373
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True story....Ron Greschner played his entire career without losing a tooth....until the last game of his career in the 1990 playoffs vs Washington. Lost 4-5 teeth late in the 3rd period or early in OT taking a puck to the face. Adding insult to injury John Druce scored yet again to end the Rangers season & Gresch's career was over. Sigh.
 
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bleedblue94 said:
I am not disclosing the exact injury information and I haven't regardless how much I've been pressed on it before. I think most people with sense can figure some of it out.

Nash is another good example of what I was saying although Nash is an example of a guy who's game never really recovered from his head trauma and it had last effects on his willingness to aggressively attack the house area. He became the king of skate wide and shoot it at the net from the outside instead of driving to the net the way he did prior to the head injuries. I don't fault him for that either, these guys have their entire lives ahead of them and living with scrambled eggs for brains isn't something any of them should be forced to do. I was actually happy Nash retired when he did for his own sake.
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That was my point. I don’t think it’s concussion. That’s why I don’t think it’s a fair analogy. Coming back from head trauma is a different animal.

I believe he was “off” before the injury. The injury made it that much worse in the following season. His entire line being perimeter and floaty was another part of the issue.
 
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