Speculation: Roster Building Thread: New Season Edition

[kovazub94]

Rangers preseason stock watch: Jimmy Vesey among players on the rise

Most of the lineup is set and a few players are vying for the last spots.

theathletic.com

I get it. Carpenter has played in the NHL, played for Gallant, was signed to be in Rooney's spot, blah blah blah. But he hasnt won a job. Its been painfully clear (up to this point) that Rydahl has more to offer this team.

Maybe in the end Rydahl will be ahead of Carpenter in the depth chart, since vets are given a longer leash, but both these guys make 750K and it bothers me that certain guys are just inked in at camp due to history. Why have a competitive camp then?

....

I will start with a disclaimer that I'd also prefer Rydahl over Carpenter. But we, fans, need to remember that season open roster is not (and not supposed to be) purely based on what happens in camp. As you noted Carpenter's history as NHL vet and familiarity with Gallant should be a consideration when comparing to someone coming as generally an unknown entity. Got to keep in mind that pre-season games are really not an exact "replica" environment to the actual season in a lot of ways.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

I will start with a disclaimer that I'd also prefer Rydahl over Carpenter. But we, fans, need to remember that season open roster is not (and not supposed to be) purely based on what happens in camp. As you noted Carpenter's history as NHL vet and familiarity with Gallant should be a consideration when comparing to someone coming as generally an unknown entity. Got to keep in mind that pre-season games are really not an exact "replica" environment to the actual season in a lot of ways.

But his NHL resume is so mediocre that if a player clearly plays better in camp and their contracts are equal, which they are, the player that played better in camp should get the spot. Otherwise what's the point of camp?

 

[Machinehead]

I get it when folks give the whole "we don't see them in practice" spiel but if they can't do what the coach is seeing, in real games, over large samples, it begins to not matter.

 

[RangerBoy]

Brooks brought up Noah Dobson's contract as a comparison to KAM. 3 years/$12M. The Dobson contract is a team friendly contract. McAvoy's 3 year bridge contract was 3 years. $4.9M AAV. Brooks mentioned Chychrun's 6 year contract. $4.6M AAV. Girard's contract. 7 years. $5M AAV. Morgan Reilly's previous contract. 6 years. $5M AAV.

Would Miller accept $5M AAV for 6-7 years?

A three year contract(Dobson) for Miller coincides with Panarin's contract expiring after 25-26. Miller will be one year away from group III with a 3 year contract. The Rangers will have space but the AAV will be much higher than $5M.

If the Rangers do a Goodrow buyout next summer, 2026-27 has the big cap hit at $3.65M. Panarin's money is off the books that year. $200,000 cap credit in 23-24 and $100,000 cap credit in 24-25. $1,150,000 cap hit in 25-26. Cap projection is $92M in 25-26.

 

[bhamill]

Brooks brought up Noah Dobson's contract as a comparison to KAM. 3 years/$12M. The Dobson contract is a team friendly contract. McAvoy's 3 year bridge contract was 3 years. $4.9M AAV. Brooks mentioned Chychrun's 6 year contract. $4.6M AAV. Girard's contract. 7 years. $5M AAV. Morgan Reilly's previous contract. 6 years. $5M AAV.

Would Miller accept $5M AAV for 6-7 years?

A three year contract(Dobson) for Miller coincides with Panarin's contract expiring after 25-26. Miller will be one year away from group III with a 3 year contract. The Rangers will have space but the AAV will be much higher than $5M.

If the Rangers do a Goodrow buyout next summer, 2026-27 has the big cap hit at $3.65M. Panarin's money is off the books that year. $200,000 cap credit in 23-24 and $100,000 cap credit in 24-25. $1,150,000 cap hit in 25-26. Cap projection is $92M in 25-26.

Yeah, I mean I get people's concerns with our coming cap, but it is certainly manageable. EVERY team that wants to win is going to go through this.

 

[GAGLine]

I get it when folks give the whole "we don't see them in practice" spiel but if they can't do what the coach is seeing, in real games, over large samples, it begins to not matter.

This is true, but there is a disconnect between what the coach expects a player to do and what the fans expect from that player. Fans focus much more on offensive talent (even if it doesn't match offensive production) than coaches do.

 

[Off Sides]

I don't agree. You only offer him a contract when his roster spot on opening night is secured. Don't think it's fair to declare that one week into camp.

They know who he is and what he brings.

Why not either say yes or no now to him making the team or not?

If yes, offer him a deal, if no, then cut him and move on to someone else who may get that spot.

 

[Off Sides]

Agreed.

Vesey will get a contract offer soon. If not from us, then from some other team.

He took the opportunity and made the most of it. He's played his way to a new one way NHL contract.

Even if he does not get any offers from other teams, and the Rangers are also not offering him anything, what is the point of him being in camp?

How can they be unsure at this point, the guy is what he is. They had him on their team not that long ago. He shoots a lot, so he must be somewhere near the other teams net during the games. (sure they are from bad angles and whatnot, but their on goal) Which is more than can be said for Carpenter at least, who had like half the amount of shots on goal in almost the same amount of games last year. He is not totally slow. He PK'd for ~2min average on the Devils last year, and he's not a mess defensively 5on5.

Either that is good enough for a league min offer, or just cut him. If he wants more than league min, then best to find out now instead of waiting to find he is going to ask for more to sign and them at that point having to think if they want that extra cap hit or not.

 

[Vitto79]

Yeah, I mean I get people's concerns with our coming cap, but it is certainly manageable. EVERY team that wants to win is going to go through this.

Agreed. Let’s say Miller gets the 3 yrs x4
That’s basically the buyout money coming off the books

Then you gotta Bridge Laf too but Halak , Blais , Reaves Money plus the cap bump adds up

Chytil likely a goner imo though

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

Agreed. Let’s say Miller gets the 3 yrs x4
That’s basically the buyout money coming off the books

Then you gotta Bridge Laf too but Halak , Blais , Reaves Money plus the cap bump adds up

Chytil likely a goner imo though

Knowing rangers they will target another 30 year old forward.

 

[Mac n Gs]

How is anyone actually worried about losing Carpenter and his 26 career goals in 308 NHL games?

How will we ever be able replace that elite level scoring? Or his 48% faceoff percentage? Or his -5 CF% rel?

He's the most replaceable player the Rangers have had in recent years. Even McKegg provided something more substantial.

Just about the most worthless hockey player I've seen in a Rangerd sweater in the last decade.

This shouldn't even be a discussion. Rydahl and Vesey earned spots. Carpenter and Hunt have not.

Not that I even care about Carpenter, but it might help to not misquote stats about him. He isn’t a -5 CF%rel player for his career, and he has his entire playing history of being a good defensive forward with good PKing skills. The faceoff stuff is also overblown since it’s just variance and mainly impacted by one bad season when he was at 43%. If he loses out the spot, so be it. They can waive him without a problem.

 

[GAGLine]

They know who he is and what he brings.

Why not either say yes or no now to him making the team or not?

If yes, offer him a deal, if no, then cut him and move on to someone else who may get that spot.

And yet they only offered him a PTO, so obviously there were things they wanted to see before they committed to him. Why not wait as long as possible before making that decision? What's the rush?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Brooks brought up Noah Dobson's contract as a comparison to KAM. 3 years/$12M. The Dobson contract is a team friendly contract. McAvoy's 3 year bridge contract was 3 years. $4.9M AAV. Brooks mentioned Chychrun's 6 year contract. $4.6M AAV. Girard's contract. 7 years. $5M AAV. Morgan Reilly's previous contract. 6 years. $5M AAV.

Would Miller accept $5M AAV for 6-7 years?

A three year contract(Dobson) for Miller coincides with Panarin's contract expiring after 25-26. Miller will be one year away from group III with a 3 year contract. The Rangers will have space but the AAV will be much higher than $5M.

If the Rangers do a Goodrow buyout next summer, 2026-27 has the big cap hit at $3.65M. Panarin's money is off the books that year. $200,000 cap credit in 23-24 and $100,000 cap credit in 24-25. $1,150,000 cap hit in 25-26. Cap projection is $92M in 25-26.

I would jump for joy if he were to sign that. That would be a complete steal in 1-2 years...

 

[Profet]

Even if he does not get any offers from other teams, and the Rangers are also not offering him anything, what is the point of him being in camp?

How can they be unsure at this point, the guy is what he is. They had him on their team not that long ago. He shoots a lot, so he must be somewhere near the other teams net during the games. (sure they are from bad angles and whatnot, but their on goal) Which is more than can be said for Carpenter at least, who had like half the amount of shots on goal in almost the same amount of games last year. He is not totally slow. He PK'd for ~2min average on the Devils last year, and he's not a mess defensively 5on5.

Either that is good enough for a league min offer, or just cut him. If he wants more than league min, then best to find out now instead of waiting to find he is going to ask for more to sign and them at that point having to think if they want that extra cap hit or not.

Then there is the other side...

He has a Rangers contract in hand, he's just waiting to see if other teams offer him more than league minimum based on his play during this PTO.

It takes two to tango, and we're just assuming it's the Rangers holding things up.

 

[Off Sides]

And yet they only offered him a PTO, so obviously there were things they wanted to see before they committed to him. Why not wait as long as possible before making that decision? What's the rush?

What else could they possibly need to see?

They know the player, he played for them from 2016 to 2019. He played for the Devil last year.

He has now played in camp and 2 preseason games.

The point to offering him league min now, to see if he will sign it, or them finding out he wants more than that. If they don't want to make that offer, then why are they going to continue wasting so much camp time on him rather than seeing what some other prosect or player could do if he was given the Vesey opputunity?

 

[SA16]

What else could they possibly need to see?

They know the player, he played for them from 2016 to 2019. He played for the Devil last year.

He has now played in camp and 2 preseason games.

The point to offering him league min now, to see if he will sign it, or them finding out he wants more than that. If they don't want to make that offer, then why are they going to continue wasting so much camp time on him rather than seeing what some other prosect or player could do if he was given the Vesey opputunity?

Who is "they?" This coaching staff was not the coaching staff from 2016 to 2019. The GM was, in a lesser role but I don't think he's going to make the final roster decision on his own without input from the staff.

 

[Thirty One]

What else could they possibly need to see?

They know the player, he played for them from 2016 to 2019. He played for the Devil last year.

He has now played in camp and 2 preseason games.

The point to offering him league min now, to see if he will sign it, or them finding out he wants more than that. If they don't want to make that offer, then why are they going to continue wasting so much camp time on him rather than seeing what some other prosect or player could do if he was given the Vesey opputunity?

The decision about whether Vesey gets a roster spot isn't just about Vesey. It's about Vesey, Othmann, Carpenter, Hunt, Brodzinksi and Rydahl.

 

[GAGLine]

What else could they possibly need to see?

They know the player, he played for them from 2016 to 2019. He played for the Devil last year.

He has now played in camp and 2 preseason games.

As far as what else they could possibly need to see, you'd need to ask them.

Everything they know about him from 2016 to 2019, or from last year with the devils, obviously wasn't enough to earn him a contract prior to camp.

And maybe it isn't him they want to see more of. Maybe they want to see more of other players before making a final decision.

The point to offering him league min now, to see if he will sign it, or them finding out he wants more than that. If they don't want to make that offer, then why are they going to continue wasting so much camp time on him rather than seeing what some other prosect or player could do if he was given the Vesey opputunity?

I'm sure they have talked to his agent. They know what it will take to sign him. There were no other teams offering him a contract this summer. All of those teams saw him last year with the devils. If some team wants to offer him more than league minimum based on 2 preseason games and he takes it, so be it, but the odds are against it. All those other teams have their own players and PTOs to deal with, and Vesey probably wants to stay in the area anyway. He's a Boston guy and has played his entire career in the northeast.

 

[Off Sides]

Who is "they?" This coaching staff was not the coaching staff from 2016 to 2019. The GM was, in a lesser role but I don't think he's going to make the final roster decision on his own without input from the staff.

Coaching has not seen Carpenter in 3 years, yet the Rangers signed him. Maybe the GM should not always take coaching's advice when it comes to team building?

The decision about whether Vesey gets a roster spot isn't just about Vesey. It's about Vesey, Othmann, Carpenter, Hunt, Brodzinksi and Rydahl.

These should be easy choices.

Carpenter has shown nothing.

Othmann is 19

Brodzinski is waived

As far as what else they could possibly need to see, you'd need to ask them.

Everything they know about him from 2016 to 2019, or from last year with the devils, obviously wasn't enough to earn him a contract prior to camp.

And maybe it isn't him they want to see more of. Maybe they want to see more of other players before making a final decision.



I'm sure they have talked to his agent. They know what it will take to sign him. There were no other teams offering him a contract this summer. All of those teams saw him last year with the devils. If some team wants to offer him more than league minimum based on 2 preseason games and he takes it, so be it, but the odds are against it. All those other teams have their own players and PTOs to deal with, and Vesey probably wants to stay in the area anyway. He's a Boston guy and has played his entire career in the northeast.

If it's "so be it" with Vesey, that should apply to say waiving Carpenter too, the odds of him being plucked off waiver are pretty low, no?

 

[SA16]

If you're making a decision on Carpenter, or any player, after two games you're making a bad decision.

 

[BBKers]

I have it from "good" sources that Miller and LAF will both be bridged. 2 years is the likeliest and best outcome for both parties. Neither player has leverage coming off their ELCs. There will likely be a casualty or two somewhere, but Brass also evidently likes what is coming up. Vesey all but sure to get a contract too. Finally got some good intel...Praise something somewhere

 

[EdJovanovski]

I have it from "good" sources that Miller and LAF will both be bridged. 2 years is the likeliest and best outcome for both parties. Neither player has leverage coming off their ELCs. There will likely be a casualty or two somewhere, but Brass also evidently likes what is coming up. Vesey all but sure to get a contract too. Finally got some good intel...Praise something somewhere

Can't overcommit to everybody when they know about the incoming 8Y/7.4M AAV next year (which will be a steal)

 

[GAGLine]

If it's "so be it" with Vesey, that should apply to say waiving Carpenter too, the odds of him being plucked off waiver are pretty low, no?

Yes, but again, what's the rush? You're trying way too hard to make something out of nothing.

 

[Thirty One]

I have it from "good" sources that Miller and LAF will both be bridged. 2 years is the likeliest and best outcome for both parties. Neither player has leverage coming off their ELCs. There will likely be a casualty or two somewhere, but Brass also evidently likes what is coming up. Vesey all but sure to get a contract too. Finally got some good intel...Praise something somewhere

I feel the urge to ask why good is in quotations.

 

[QJL]

Not a fan of waiving Robertson this early in camp. Clearly the Rangers don’t think he’s pushing for a spot, but an early cut tor a young highly drafted does not help trade value.