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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: New Season Edition

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You’re again getting rightly crushed for this but I’ll add on.

You know what else doesn’t happen?:

Teams don’t trade recent top 6 picks, which would probably be top 3 picks in a redraft, PLUS a second rounder, for an aging veteran. Seriously, it’s a miracle that we acquired Zibanejad when we did. A miracle. He’s a monster.

Teams don’t trade a soon to be Norris Trophy winner for two second round picks.

The BEST winger in the league becomes a free agent and takes less money to play on your team.

Your fourth round draft pick goalie wins the Vezina at 25 years old.

You are anchored to draft position so deeply that you are unable to see how absurdly fortunate this organization has been with its acquisitions over the past few years. You don’t seem to understand how good this team is. If everything breaks perfectly for Laf and Kakko, the team at that time is likely not as good as this one given that all of these other elite pieces will have aged out or priced themselves out.

Prime, top of the most optimistic development curve Laf and Kakko are going to be really good players but still probably not as good as Zib and Panarin are right now. Their draft position is meaningless at this point.

I'm not the smartest guy in the world and I'll admit to not being nearly as good at player evaluation as most people here. However, the mind boggling lack of logic in his posts is so blatant that I almost can't believe it's real.
 
You’re again getting rightly crushed for this but I’ll add on.

You know what else doesn’t happen?:

Teams don’t trade recent top 6 picks, which would probably be top 3 picks in a redraft, PLUS a second rounder, for an aging veteran. Seriously, it’s a miracle that we acquired Zibanejad when we did. A miracle. He’s a monster.

Teams don’t trade a soon to be Norris Trophy winner for two second round picks.

The BEST winger in the league becomes a free agent and takes less money to play on your team.

Your fourth round draft pick goalie wins the Vezina at 25 years old.

You are anchored to draft position so deeply that you are unable to see how absurdly fortunate this organization has been with its acquisitions over the past few years. You don’t seem to understand how good this team is. If everything breaks perfectly for Laf and Kakko, the team at that time is likely not as good as this one given that all of these other elite pieces will have aged out or priced themselves out.

Prime, top of the most optimistic development curve Laf and Kakko are going to be really good players but still probably not as good as Zib and Panarin are right now. Their draft position is meaningless at this point.
Truly a hockey miracle. Zibanejad has turned into such an incredible force and I’m glad the Rangers gave him his big deal. A couple years ago I was all for trading him (selling high, of course). I thought he was injury prone and has peaked. I was so wrong.
 
Please keep in mind the available cap space that we will have. I believe its only about 4m
I get that if everything stays the course; I'm not gonna get into predicting what cap maneuvers we might do, or injuries that come up, etc.
 
There's nothing frustrating about the PP situation. It's a great PP and the ideal structure. If the younger guys aren't on the unit then so be it. They can learn to shoot right handed in the offseason if they want.
You are wrong. Feeling frustration is subjective - if you’re not frustrated you can’t tell someone that he’s not frustrated too.
 
Without being disrespectful to those who disagree, we've pretty well established on this board that NYR's build is going to look a little different than those of Colorado, Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Chicago, etc.

NYR never bottomed out the way those teams did.

Most rebuilding teams establish a core of young guys that develop into top line players, then add veteran pieces as they get close.

NYR is trying something a little different where we have an established core of star veterans that we traded for/signed, and are trying to fill out the depth positions in the roster with youth and draft picks.

Whether it works is TBD because not too many teams rebuild like we did. It's why I was a little surprised when we signed Panarin, re-signed Kreider, and traded for Trouba when we did. The book is out, but I don't think its a good faith argument to assume that there is only one way to build a championship roster.

The 1994 Rangers roster had young stars (Zubov, Leetch, Kovalev) but it also had acquired veteran leadership (Messier, Graves, Lowe)
 
Trocheck on the PP - great face offs and puck retrieval. Massively better than Strome in those regards. And can hit an empty net.

With Mika not having to worry about face offs they can run more plays off of a face off win.
 
Constantly complaining about a predominantly young team that is trending in an upward trajectory has become so visceral for a few here that it is becoming intolerable. The constant rhetoric is going to an unreasonable level of hyperbole. We are listening to complaining about a successful* PP unit because the personnel doesn’t include exactly how the couch potato fan wants it deployed as. We read things like Trocheck is a “glorified 3rd line center” or that Gallant who took this team to the ECF in his first year and has ended up playing Kakko/Laf in the top 6 even with Blais returning, is a jackass. Sure you can say just put them on the “ignore” list but this thread just gets hijacked by this nonsense for several pages because there will be other posters that will still engage, so why bother even ignoring.
 
Just for clarification. I don't have anything against Trocheck. He's a good player. Not great. But good. And im of the strong belief that this team won't win a Cup until Laf and Kakko are the guys and the sooner they are they better. And I want the same thing everyone else wants: winning. But as I said, I don't believe it's going to happen until our two cornerstone picks are the guys leading the way. I kind of hope I'm wrong. But until they're the ones the team leans on and guys like Zib, Panarin, and Kreids are looked at as support, I don't think it's going to happen. I look around the league and at history. That's how it works nearly all the time. Doesn't make Zib, Panarin, etc any less important. Look at Chicago. As good as Hossa was he was support for Kane and Toews.
We have two guys, ones a center, who can put up 100 points each this season. But we won’t win until Kakko and Laf are better than them?
 
We have two guys, ones a center, who can put up 100 points each this season. But we won’t win until Kakko and Laf are better than them?

The bigger point of having 2 100 point guys is that theyre doing it on separate lines. Its insane.

You both took the words right out of my mouth.

I could care less who thinks it's delusional. We'll see if they win the Cup before then or at all. Fact is no one knows shit until it happens. But look at recent history in the league. No teams are winning Cups without their top picks developing into the players that lead them to Cups. Show me a team that did it and I'll show you an outlier. St. Louis is the closest thing to an outlier. And they still had top picks leading the way. You'd have to go back to the 98-99 Dallas Stars to find a team that won the Cup with a team comprised of leaders not their own high draft picks. Still they had Modano. The Rangers are going to be the one to buck a 2 decade long trend. OK. I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

That's because teams are rarely able to acquire guys like Zibanejad, Panarin and Fox without drafting them the way we were.
 
Why can’t NHL players shoot from both sideds-right and left? MLB has switch hitters. There were more prominent switch hitters years ago. Bernie Williams. You can learn how to hit lefty or righty. Throwing with both hands is difficult.
 
Why can’t NHL players shoot from both sideds-right and left? MLB has switch hitters. There were more prominent switch hitters years ago. Bernie Williams. You can learn how to hit lefty or righty. Throwing with both hands is difficult.
If you had both sticks on the bench it could be done, so you are suggesting Laf figure out how to play righty and come out on the PP1 in the bumper slot?

Problem solved. lol

There have been a few goals scored like that after a stick has been broken
 
A cap jump to $86.5M would be a huge deal for this team. We can keep the group together. I still think we see a few bridge deals but the possibility of Laf or Miller long term is now in play.

Projected deals:

Lafreniere - $4m x 3 years
Miller - $4M x 3 years
Chytil - $4M x 5 years
Jones - $1.2M x 2 years
Vesey - $1M x 1 year
Kravtsov - $1M x 1 year
Rydahl - $0.9M x 1 year

Kreider (6.5M) - Zib (8.5M) - Kakko (2.1M)
Panarin (11.642M) - Trocheck (5.625M) - Laf (4M)
Othmann (0.894M) - Chytil (4M) - Krav (1M)
Cuylle (0.828M) - Good (3.642M) - Vesey (1M)
Rydahl (0.9M)

Lindgren (3M) - Fox (9.5M)
Miller (4M) - Trouba (8M)
Jones (1.2M) - Schneider (0.925M)
Robertson (0.798M)

Shesterkin (5.667M)
Garand (0.828M)

= 84.549M / 86.5M
 
If you had both sticks on the bench it could be done, so you are suggesting Laf figure out how to play righty and come out on the PP1 in the bumper slot?

Problem solved. lol

There have been a few goals scored like that after a stick has been broken

The stick companies can make sticks with flexible blades.

The Rangers want a righty in the bumper.
 
The stick companies can make sticks with flexible blades.

The Rangers want a righty in the bumper.
Most blades can be fired to bend the blades to their liking but they cant be too flexible since most NHLers want a really stiff blade.

If they want a righty there, just leave Trocheck. It works
 
Totally disagree with this thinking. Mika, Panarin, Kreider, Fox, and Shesty are still the players that stir the drink and they can absolutely win a cup if Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Miller continue to progress. If Laf and Kakko are solid 60 point players this year and continue to grow they can win a cup without the kids being "the" guys.
If Kakko and Lafreniere put up 60 points with the PP time they are going to get, the Rangers sure as hell need to win the cup. Just for refrence, last season Panarin had 59 and 5v5 points. Zibanejad had 48. Leon Draisaitl had 68, so did Mitch Marner.

People fail to realise how big of a portion PP points make of the total scoring of super star player.
 
The cap itself needs to change. Teams are punished for drafting well and building good teams. Install exceptions into the cap for team's own players. Have them pay with money or draft picks or whatever. Not for anyone signed in FA, but for players the teams have raised as their own.
Teams need a cap discount for re-signing players they drafted/developed. How much that should be in order to retain competitive balance is up for debate. Getting a 10% cap discount on those kinds of contracts might move the needle, but good luck getting ownership to sign off on it. Penny-pinching owners (which represents a large chunk of the league) don't want any money outside of the cap system. These teams are an investment for them, and they won't take a cent less than the 50% HRR share they're owed. If there was ever an argument for allowing a compliance buyout, it would have been during this Covid crunch. But the owners refused. That should tell you all you need to know about the willingness of the owners to address this issue.
 
I could care less who thinks it's delusional. We'll see if they win the Cup before then or at all. Fact is no one knows shit until it happens. But look at recent history in the league. No teams are winning Cups without their top picks developing into the players that lead them to Cups. Show me a team that did it and I'll show you an outlier. St. Louis is the closest thing to an outlier. And they still had top picks leading the way. You'd have to go back to the 98-99 Dallas Stars to find a team that won the Cup with a team comprised of leaders not their own high draft picks. Still they had Modano. The Rangers are going to be the one to buck a 2 decade long trend. OK. I hope I'm wrong, I really do.
This is a disingenuous argument. Let's go back 5 short months, to the current Cup winner and their #1 & #2 overall picks who didn't win until their 9th & 11th year respectively. Our kids are just starting their 3rd & 4th years. You're being incredibly short sighted here. It's really complaining for the sake of complaining at this point. Lighten up, it's a long season.
 
If the cap indeed goes up by $4m, then what that really does is allow the team to not buyout Goodrow or keep Chytil. Both of which are good choices.
 
Without being disrespectful to those who disagree, we've pretty well established on this board that NYR's build is going to look a little different than those of Colorado, Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Chicago, etc.

NYR never bottomed out the way those teams did.

Most rebuilding teams establish a core of young guys that develop into top line players, then add veteran pieces as they get close.

NYR is trying something a little different where we have an established core of star veterans that we traded for/signed, and are trying to fill out the depth positions in the roster with youth and draft picks.

Whether it works is TBD because not too many teams rebuild like we did. It's why I was a little surprised when we signed Panarin, re-signed Kreider, and traded for Trouba when we did. The book is out, but I don't think its a good faith argument to assume that there is only one way to build a championship roster.

The 1994 Rangers roster had young stars (Zubov, Leetch, Kovalev) but it also had acquired veteran leadership (Messier, Graves, Lowe)
3 yr window with current vets..then retool with expanded cap
 
Teams need a cap discount for re-signing players they drafted/developed. How much that should be in order to retain competitive balance is up for debate. Getting a 10% cap discount on those kinds of contracts might move the needle, but good luck getting ownership to sign off on it. Penny-pinching owners (which represents a large chunk of the league) don't want any money outside of the cap system. These teams are an investment for them, and they won't take a cent less than the 50% HRR share they're owed. If there was ever an argument for allowing a compliance buyout, it would have been during this Covid crunch. But the owners refused. That should tell you all you need to know about the willingness of the owners to address this issue.
This is 100%. The owners are shortsighted. More cap space = the ability to put a better product out on the ice every night = more winning (if built correctly) = more people want to watch.
 
I could care less who thinks it's delusional. We'll see if they win the Cup before then or at all. Fact is no one knows shit until it happens. But look at recent history in the league. No teams are winning Cups without their top picks developing into the players that lead them to Cups. Show me a team that did it and I'll show you an outlier. St. Louis is the closest thing to an outlier. And they still had top picks leading the way. You'd have to go back to the 98-99 Dallas Stars to find a team that won the Cup with a team comprised of leaders not their own high draft picks. Still they had Modano. The Rangers are going to be the one to buck a 2 decade long trend. OK. I hope I'm wrong, I really do.
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Totally disagree with this thinking. Mika, Panarin, Kreider, Fox, and Shesty are still the players that stir the drink and they can absolutely win a cup if Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Miller continue to progress. If Laf and Kakko are solid 60 point players this year and continue to grow they can win a cup without the kids being "the" guys.
Thank you.

Panarin, Zibanejad, Fox and Shesterkin are ELITE top 30 players in the entire league RIGHT NOW. Wtf is even going on in this thread the past few pages? The Rangers have serious elite talent, the types we haven't had all on the same team in decades, what the hell is there to be complaining about?

We literally have an ELITE player at all four positions on this team. PP1 is probably the best in the entire league. We have players in their early 20s taking the next step and looking better and better without the pressure of needing to be THE guys carrying the team yet. What the hell is there to complain about? Kakko and Lafreniere and Chytil are playing important roles on a competitive team. You want them on PP1 because that's what most top picks get? Most top picks are on shit teams, not on a team with an ELITE power play. Their time will come whether it's this year or next or in a couple, it will come when Lafreniere and Kakko ARE the guys on the team and the veterans are the secondary guys but we're not there yet. You don't break up a PP unit that is basically the envy of the whole league because you want your 21 year olds to get more points.
 
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