Speculation: Roster Building Thread: New Season Edition

[IDvsEGO]

I don't only oppose it for ideological reasons of fairness & being against forced parity, but I also oppose it because I think it prevents the growth of the sport and it ruins peoples lives. Kids work their ass off their entire life, parents sacrifice everything they have to put a kid through high level hockey; all to be drafted by whatever incompetent management is at the bottom of the league and have their development often times ruined. Imagine how much more popular hockey would be if McDavid were drafted by a competent team. Imagine LA drafted him right after winning the cup, hockey would literally be 50% bigger sport than it is. Go on the street of any American city and show them a pic of McDavid, most people will have no idea who he is. Gretzky going to LA is what put hockey on the map in mainstream America. But we'll never have things like that happen again in this upside down salary cap world. Imagine all the "busts" who wouldn't have been busts. Who knows what Yakupov would've become if he were drafted by LA, Chicago, one of the better run teams of that era.

Rewarding failure is morally reprehensible, there's no way a team should be rewarded for being last place and basically be penalized for just barely missing the playoffs. You should never be better off for doing worse in any facet of life

And yet every professional sport uses inverse record in some fashion to set the draft order.
The NBA/NFL/MLB all do it.
We bitch about it in hockey because we have the arizona's of the world, but its about balancing and creating as much parity as possible. We have the cap to help with parity and it does work. The draft and 8/27 yrs before UFA is another aspect. Giving you a star player for 8-12 years potentially. Edmonton may have suffered through mcdavids early years, but theyve built around him and they're sucessful.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Would have preferred keeping Vesey on the 3rd line. It's not a significant difference however so eh. But I liked that line against Anaheim.

Vesey has legitimately transformed into a good defensive forward.

If theres a guy you want to sub in for someone less reliable late in a game/period, it should be him. I have no problem moving him down, but not sure that this is the route I would have gone.

I get that Kravtsov had a mediocre camp (at best) but you need to let him get in and at least try to make an impact. If you're just going to scratch him and let him skate around with the extras and get reps with the skills coach after practice, just trade him.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

If Kravtsov can find a way to earn a top 9 spot this season, that's a really, really solid pre-deadline forward group. Very solid.

 

[duhmetreE]

I don't think the cap should be abolished but there should be franchise type players that do not count against the cap.

Teams should be encouraged and able to keep their draft picks.

Maybe there needs to be a cap or restrictions on RFA contracts?

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

The cap was never about parity, it was about the owners saving money. Parity was the front to get it.

The teams that make money and that are attractive to players are the ones that win. The Coyotes are going to disband before they every win a championship.

Agreed that cost certainty is the main reason behind the cap.

But the financial results still vary by market and the league is ultimately a collection of 32 owners.

If ~10 teams are on the cusp of profit/loss in any given year, that is a sizable voting block who has an interest in ensuring that the 5-10 most financially successful teams (that spend to the cap, have great ticket sales in good and bad years, and likely earn a substantial profit to boot) don't receive additional advantages that make it harder for those teams on the cusp to attract talent, build a winning team, and drive more gate revenue.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I don't think the cap should be abolished but there should be franchise type players that do not count against the cap.

Teams should be encouraged and able to keep their draft picks.

Maybe there needs to be a cap or restrictions on RFA contracts?

The problem is neither the PA nor the owners want to have a system like that. Star players in the nhlpa don't really have the outsized power they do in the NBAPA. NBA PA is mostly the absolute star players so the cap reflects that. The PA will argue that a super star contract raises the value of the middle tier player, and it does, but theres 10 of those and teams can and do win without them in the NHL.
Most owners don't see those superstar players as an overall need. They can help a middling team sell more jersey's and whatnot, but they don't do a whole ton for league revenues or anything that the team can't do better, so theres no reason to give the players and assistance on that 50% split (which is what would need to happen).

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Kreider - Zib - Kakko
Panarin - Trocheck - Laf
Blais - Chytil - Kravstov
Vesey - Carpenter - Goodrow

If Kravy can get his shit together thats a strong lineup, yes.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Agreed that cost certainty is the main reason behind the cap.

But the financial results still vary by market and the league is ultimately a collection of 32 owners.

If ~10 teams are on the cusp of profit/loss in any given year, that is a sizable voting block who has an interest in ensuring that the 5-10 most financially successful teams (that spend to the cap, have great ticket sales in good and bad years, and likely earn a substantial profit to boot) don't receive additional advantages that make it harder for those teams on the cusp to attract talent, build a winning team, and drive more gate revenue.

Without creative accounting, theres almost 0 teams losing money (coyotes might be the exception considering the situation they're in). Teams claim poverty, but the full answer is that the league makes good money, and theres a reason that its not hard to find willing owners for an NHL team in most places. (the south is a bit different). Teams make money. But they also use creative accounting to show alot lower profit.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Without creative accounting, theres almost 0 teams losing money (coyotes might be the exception considering the situation they're in). Teams claim poverty, but the full answer is that the league makes good money, and theres a reason that its not hard to find willing owners for an NHL team in most places. (the south is a bit different). Teams make money. But they also use creative accounting to show alot lower profit.

It's almost impossible to say from the outside. But owning a team is definitely a vanity purchase as well as a financially driven investment in most cases.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Dont mind the Goodrow/Vesey swap. Vesey hasnt shown much offense so let’s see if Goodrow can bring a little more.

 

[duhmetreE]

Kreider - Zib - Kakko
Panarin - Trocheck - Laf
Blais - Chytil - Kravstov
Vesey - Carpenter - Goodrow

If Kravy can get his shit together thats a strong lineup, yes.

Kravtsov going to be moved for Bertuzzi.

Hajek+2nd+conditonal pick for Soucy

that's our TDL

 

[Beer League Sniper]

I don't want the NHL becoming like the NBA, where before the season starts you know that 90% of the teams have no chance of winning and where superstars gang up to create the best teams.

In hockey, teams can eventually win if they manage well and get lucky. There are a lot of teams in the NBA that have a near zero chance of winning for a decade.

The NBA has an imbalance of talent, and the top players play almost the entire game. If McDavid was able to play nearly the entire game, it would change the landscape of the league too. Basketball is just tailor-made for collusion amongst players to create "super-teams." Grab 3 max contract talents, then fill out your roster with ring-chasers taking well below their market value. That model just doesn't work in modern hockey.

 

[JimmyG89]

Would have preferred keeping Vesey on the 3rd line. It's not a significant difference however so eh. But I liked that line against Anaheim.

With Carpenter back, Goodrow is great insurance on faceoffs for the 3rd line. I also feel his offensive abilities are greater than Vesey.

 

[NYR Viper]

With Carpenter back, Goodrow is great insurance on faceoffs for the 3rd line. I also feel his offensive abilities are greater than Vesey.

That's because they are. Even strength numbers below

2021-2022
Goodrow
.7 G/60
.9 A/60

Vesey
.4 G/60
.5 A/60

2020-2021
Goodrow
.5 G/60
1.2 A/60

Vesey
.5 G/60
.4 A/60

 

[irishlaxburger2]

 

[Raspewtin]

Vesey reinventing himself as a defensive specialist that is being properly utilized is a nice surprise of the year.

 

[duhmetreE]

Vesey reinventing himself as a defensive specialist that is being properly utilized is a nice surprise of the year.

He's been great. Perfect bottom6 player.

If his play keeps up, I'd give him another year too tbh

 

[rangersfansince08]

I don't think the cap should be abolished but there should be franchise type players that do not count against the cap.

Teams should be encouraged and able to keep their draft picks.

Maybe there needs to be a cap or restrictions on RFA contracts?

There should be no cap for players you drafted imo.

 

[GAGLine]

I don't think the cap should be abolished but there should be franchise type players that do not count against the cap.

Stuff like that won't work. No matter how you fudge the cap numbers, the end result is a 50/50 split in HRR. The money being paid to those players not counting against the cap would come out of everyone's salary via escrow to ensure the 50/50 split.

The only way they could do something like that would be if the owners agreed that those contracts don't count against the players' share, but why would they do that? They fought through 2 lockouts to get to the 50/50 split. I don't see them now reversing course and paying players more than 50%.

Maybe there needs to be a cap or restrictions on RFA contracts?

I can't see why the NHLPA would agree to that.

 

[Chytilmania]

Why can’t NHL players shoot from both sideds-right and left? MLB has switch hitters. There were more prominent switch hitters years ago. Bernie Williams. You can learn how to hit lefty or righty. Throwing with both hands is difficult.

Sounds like we need to hire George Costanza

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Today’s Media Availability. Coach Gerard Gallant:


New York Rangers Off the Boards: Season 2 Episode 1:

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Today’s Media Availability. Jacob Trouba and Ryan Carpenter:

 

[duhmetreE]

Stuff like that won't work. No matter how you fudge the cap numbers, the end result is a 50/50 split in HRR. The money being paid to those players not counting against the cap would come out of everyone's salary via escrow to ensure the 50/50 split.

The only way they could do something like that would be if the owners agreed that those contracts don't count against the players' share, but why would they do that? They fought through 2 lockouts to get to the 50/50 split. I don't see them now reversing course and paying players more than 50%.


I can't see why the NHLPA would agree to that.

Because certain costs are nearly the same but Revenues are taking off. There's a certain cost to run operate a team/org.. Maybe it wont be an issue as long as the cap actually normalizes according to revenue.... but even then, Teams will start making record profits shortly

Isn't the NHLPA influenced by Vets, who are not RFAs. There's an underlying issue when players are getting $8-12M off of their ELC. Who does that effect? The middle and low tiers, ie the majority

If there's a 20% max salary, I don't think it's far fetched for there to be a 10% max salary for RFAs. ( or whatever arbitrary number )

 

[Chytilmania]

I don't only oppose it for ideological reasons of fairness & being against forced parity, but I also oppose it because I think it prevents the growth of the sport and it ruins peoples lives. Kids work their ass off their entire life, parents sacrifice everything they have to put a kid through high level hockey; all to be drafted by whatever incompetent management is at the bottom of the league and have their development often times ruined. Imagine how much more popular hockey would be if McDavid were drafted by a competent team. Imagine LA drafted him right after winning the cup, hockey would literally be 50% bigger sport than it is. Go on the street of any American city and show them a pic of McDavid, most people will have no idea who he is. Gretzky going to LA is what put hockey on the map in mainstream America. But we'll never have things like that happen again in this upside down salary cap world. Imagine all the "busts" who wouldn't have been busts. Who knows what Yakupov would've become if he were drafted by LA, Chicago, one of the better run teams of that era.

Rewarding failure is morally reprehensible, there's no way a team should be rewarded for being last place and basically be penalized for just barely missing the playoffs. You should never be better off for doing worse in any facet of life

So what if they did something where the best teams to not make the playoffs get first pick and then the lottery teams pick 14-16 and the playoff teams round it out?

I agree with your point of training/playing your whole life for this opportunity to just get drafted by the Coyotes and waste your career. Sucks. Idk any other solutions besides finding competent front offices.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

I feel like no one could have predicted Vesey becoming so effective defensively, but you have to give some credit to Drury. That is literally the exact type of find for the bottom 6 that was needed at $750k cap.