Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIX: Going 11-3 to close out this crazy year should do it!

[Synergy27]

His players either do not respect him or do not care enough to listen to him. Either way, the Coach isn’t able to connect with his players, get them to buy in, and get the most out of them. Have said it all year long. Saw it in previous years.

Edit: Also, maybe the players arent buying in because his system sucks. Maybe they dont trust him based on how he coaches. Maybe the players see right through him. Something isnt connecting here because it happens all the time with this team’s inconsistent effort.

I see a lot of similarities between the Rangers and my favorite soccer team Tottenham Hotspur. Both teams have ridiculously skilled lineups, have had several huge blowout wins, but both have also been prone to blowing leads late and failing to rise to the occasion for big, important games.

One big difference though. Tottenham just fired their manager, who happens to be a larger than life, legend of the game. They won their first game under the new regime today (not an unexpected win) and it was really interesting to hear some players openly state many things that fans have been speculating about - wanting to be more aggressive, wanting to be allowed to attack the other team, etc.

The Rangers situation isn’t identical because of how young they are, but it’s very hard to not think that they might have very similar issues watching them day in and day out.

The Rangers aren’t quite ready to compete yet, but the bones of the contending team are in place. I see very little reason to delay the inevitable wrt the coach anymore.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Enough comments on DQ. Some lay of the land thoughts regarding our players.

1. Brett Howden is playing pretty good hockey for us, IMO. I don't at all agree with the trash he is getting. He is skating really well, slowly but surely moving in the right direction. I think he could use some better guiding offensively, but there is still some potential there. Good young hard working players that should be valueable for us going forward. Should have a good cost/performance ratio too given how his stats don't really match his contribution.

2. Adam Fox has simply been amazing for us. But I want to add one thing, and that is that we should not take his play for granted at this level. Many things play a part in how you perform. Our opponents have been very very predictable for Fox. The schedule hasn't been super crazy, and of course there was a long long rest before the season started. Tougher schedule, more travel, new teams, all of a sudden Fox games is a bit more up and down. He is only human too. Confidence goes up and down.

We shouldn't take anything away from his play and his potential. But for example in the perspective of for example looking at next season and predicting how much better we should be, you can't count on Fox playing at the insane levels he have this season.

3. K'Andre Miller I will break my own rule and bring in DQ in this post too, but only because I won't be crapping on him. I think its super important that Key is pushed to keep making -- too -- risky plays on the ice. Keep trying to expand his register. Not to attack some other poster, but I saw someone say something like 'I will reserve judgement another year because Key is so young, but if he keeps making dumb misstakes ....'. But that is exactly what his orders should be. If he don't make dumb mistakes he isn't trying. Its super important that he doesn't go the route like Marc Staal did and just shrink and shrink and shrink his game until there was nothing left. Vic Hedman is the best D in the league today. He has made many dumb mistakes. I think our coaching staff is doing a good job here. Hopefully they aren't pressured into getting away from that. If Key keeps making dumb mistakes 5-6 years from now, it should warrant a post, not until then.

4. Pavel Buchnevich play should be put in its right perspective, 5 on 5 he is top 15 in scoring in the league. No matter how you slice or dice that, its remarkably good. It also shows that he is doing something well, but also his linemates.

5. Kravy has certainly brouht a breath of fresh air. And it accentuate our log-jam up front. I've been crying a lot about how all kids need super strong support and sheltering to have success. But at the same time, depth (should) be a good thing.

6. Hajak/Smith/Bietto I think that its important to point out that our issue isn't either of these guys individually, becaus I clearly don't think that is the case, but its that the fact that any combination of these three so-so LDs cannot form a NHL caliber defense pairing.

No matter what, we shouldn't underestimate the negative impact on the team overall from having such a totally crappy 3rd D pairing.

Love your take on K’Andre, Ola, and I think you’ve highlighted on a really important point. K’Andre is still so new to the position that he’s trying to figure out what does and doesn’t work at this level, and it’s actually remarkable how much he’s been able to get away with simply because of his size, skill, and speed. Some of his decisions have been frustrating, but I could at least see the thought process behind what he wanted to do in those situations.

At the end of the day, the key with him is patience and letting him grow into his game. It’s possible that he takes another 3-4 years to really hit his stride, and it’s imperative that we all give him the chance to prove himself. He’s also shown that he’s a really eloquent, well-spoken kid, and I wouldn’t be shocked to see him have a letter on his sweater one day.

 

[aufheben]

Enough comments on DQ. Some lay of the land thoughts regarding our players.

1. Brett Howden is playing pretty good hockey for us, IMO. I don't at all agree with the trash he is getting. He is skating really well, slowly but surely moving in the right direction. I think he could use some better guiding offensively, but there is still some potential there. Good young hard working players that should be valueable for us going forward. Should have a good cost/performance ratio too given how his stats don't really match his contribution.

2. Adam Fox has simply been amazing for us. But I want to add one thing, and that is that we should not take his play for granted at this level. Many things play a part in how you perform. Our opponents have been very very predictable for Fox. The schedule hasn't been super crazy, and of course there was a long long rest before the season started. Tougher schedule, more travel, new teams, all of a sudden Fox games is a bit more up and down. He is only human too. Confidence goes up and down.

We shouldn't take anything away from his play and his potential. But for example in the perspective of for example looking at next season and predicting how much better we should be, you can't count on Fox playing at the insane levels he have this season.

3. K'Andre Miller I will break my own rule and bring in DQ in this post too, but only because I won't be crapping on him. I think its super important that Key is pushed to keep making -- too -- risky plays on the ice. Keep trying to expand his register. Not to attack some other poster, but I saw someone say something like 'I will reserve judgement another year because Key is so young, but if he keeps making dumb misstakes ....'. But that is exactly what his orders should be. If he don't make dumb mistakes he isn't trying. Its super important that he doesn't go the route like Marc Staal did and just shrink and shrink and shrink his game until there was nothing left. Vic Hedman is the best D in the league today. He has made many dumb mistakes. I think our coaching staff is doing a good job here. Hopefully they aren't pressured into getting away from that. If Key keeps making dumb mistakes 5-6 years from now, it should warrant a post, not until then.

4. Pavel Buchnevich play should be put in its right perspective, 5 on 5 he is top 15 in scoring in the league. No matter how you slice or dice that, its remarkably good. It also shows that he is doing something well, but also his linemates.

5. Kravy has certainly brouht a breath of fresh air. And it accentuate our log-jam up front. I've been crying a lot about how all kids need super strong support and sheltering to have success. But at the same time, depth (should) be a good thing.

6. Hajak/Smith/Bietto I think that its important to point out that our issue isn't either of these guys individually, becaus I clearly don't think that is the case, but its that the fact that any combination of these three so-so LDs cannot form a NHL caliber defense pairing.

No matter what, we shouldn't underestimate the negative impact on the team overall from having such a totally crappy 3rd D pairing.

Don’t take away from Fox—takes away from Fox.

Enough comments on DQ—comments on DQ.

 

[CLW]

His players either do not respect him or do not care enough to listen to him. Either way, the Coach isn’t able to connect with his players, get them to buy in, and get the most out of them. Have said it all year long. Saw it in previous years.

Edit: Also, maybe the players arent buying in because his system sucks. Maybe they dont trust him based on how he coaches. Maybe the players see right through him. Something isnt connecting here because it happens all the time with this team’s inconsistent effort.

The question is what does management do about it? Change the coach, or bring in players to fit the coach/management's philosophy? The chance that management makes a move for Eichel are probably 80%, especially if they decide to stick with Quinn.

 

[CLW]

Oleksiak is UFA this summer. Does the Rangers have cap room to add him? If the Rangers are looking for size at the back Big Rig has it in spades, and he's only 28.

 

[Barnaby]

The big problem I have is, this have never and can never be a "copy cat league".

You must have your identity. I think we are really soft too and I've been talking about that for a long time, (half) joking about Curtis Lazar and the likes. But we are also a very big team up front. The Champs got 2 forwards taller than 6'1 and we got what 8-9?

But the important thing is -- no matter what weakness you have, there have never been a team that won a Cup doing things exactly how someone else did it. We are definitely not STL. We are not Washington. We are not Tampa. But at the same time -- look how different those teams are compared to each other? And if we go further and look at the teams beat in the finals. Dallas for example, darn a bunch of plus 30 over the hill vets up front lol.

So what is my point with this? No matter what, you just must play the hand you are dealt. We must play to our strengths. Embrace what we do well.

But that alone of course won't win you a cup, or make you a true contender. The POs takes grinding and we need to add more of that, no doubt. But if you look at the roster we have, the only legit question should be -- what can we do better than everyone else? That is what we should embrace. If over passing and playing finesse hockey is your answer, well there you go. You only got one chance to win a Cup, and that is to make just that work. And when making it work, sure that includes rounding out the roster. Making the team adjust. But that is fine tuning. Tampa fine tuned by getting Maroon and Goodrow. They didn't change identity. Washington fine tuned under Trotz. STL just filled out (and won many many close games and series that could have gone either way).

We have many players that moves the puck really well. We should definitely try to use that as a strength. But when we fail to do it well enough -- we have a coach that tries everything and anything to get us away from that style, instead of seing just how extremely much room for improvement we have in these areas. Detroit won many Cups during the trapping era playing that style -- something that should have been impossible. Then it was said, but they have Yzerman, Federov, Larionov and co, nobody have the talent to do what they did. Then they did it again, this time lead by a 7th round pick in Zetterberg, what a 5th round pick in Datsyuk, an undrafted winger in Franzen (or was he drafted? Late in any event), Holmström, Cleary and the likes. .

Sure we get into big problems making bad decisions with the puck. But seriously, with the roster we have, should we (a) stop making decisions with the puck or (b) try to make better decisions with the puck?

Here is what really have made me lose all confidence in management, because even if its not black and white -- they are so obviously trying to get us towards (a).

Im going to disagree a little bit. Sure, you play to your strengths, but those teams do have some things in common. TB was swept a year prior then went out and addressed what they felt were needs to add more talent and grit in the lineup. Washington and St Louis can both play a gritty style. All 3 won with a big and talented back line.

I’m all about playing to your strengths but I think you also need some versatility.

 

[egelband]

Well once again that game showed why we would be ousted early once again in a playoff series . We are at least 3 decent 6ft 210 + pounders with an attitude away from being able to go with some clubs and providing some room for some of our more slight sized skilled guys and our bigger soft playing types to work . I'm hoping that management can make those changes in the next two seasons . We should be able to land one via a UFA signing and one via a trade to add that to our roster . Next season maybe Schneider cracks our lineup ? I would love to see Miller add more nastiness into his game . Trouba was playing so good for us as of late.....albeit was only against NJ . Have at it guys !

I agree we need a little more weight. But I don’t think it’s because we have a bunch of weaklings. Actually, the only little guys we have are Panarin and Fox, I think. And they rarely get touched.

 

[Barnaby]

One game in the NHL is not going to destroy his devleopment. I really don't understand where this theory even comes from.

If he’s woefully under prepared then I get it. I don’t get that impression so give him some type. It could help him start to develop a foundation for next season.

 

[Alluckks]

Don’t take away from Fox—takes away from Fox.

Enough comments on DQ—comments on DQ.

I make liberal use of the ignore function and the board is still a cesspool

 

[wafflepadsave]

Guy is headed towards Herman territory with an outrageous tweet like this. Rangers can still reach 72 points. Bostons magic number is hence 15, not 5 as he claims here. To think he gets money & privileges being a "beatwriter" too...

They are cut from the same cloth.

 

[NYR Viper]

Oleksiak is UFA this summer. Does the Rangers have cap room to add him? If the Rangers are looking for size at the back Big Rig has it in spades, and he's only 28.

I mentioned him in the last thread. It will be unpopular but I’d sign him for a year or two. He’d add a dimension the team needs

 

[pld459666]

I'll say this about the current team/coach dynamic

The way the players want to play will NEVER succeed in the playoffs.

You may beat up on hapless teams and an occasional gem against a better team in the regular season, but by and large, when good teams bear down on us, we look impish at best.

Straight line hockey wins.

Period. Full stop.

The Rangers best players do not like to play straight line hockey.

It sucks because it is THOSE guys that are setting the tone for the youth and thats unfortunate.

 

[jay from jersey]

Love your take on K’Andre, Ola, and I think you’ve highlighted on a really important point. K’Andre is still so new to the position that he’s trying to figure out what does and doesn’t work at this level, and it’s actually remarkable how much he’s been able to get away with simply because of his size, skill, and speed. Some of his decisions have been frustrating, but I could at least see the thought process behind what he wanted to do in those situations.

At the end of the day, the key with him is patience and letting him grow into his game. It’s possible that he takes another 3-4 years to really hit his stride, and it’s imperative that we all give him the chance to prove himself. He’s also shown that he’s a really eloquent, well-spoken kid, and I wouldn’t be shocked to see him have a letter on his sweater one day.

Agreed. I think he’s going to be a tremendous player. He already has great physical tools. I wish he would throw his body around a bit more but that’s just not his game. Maybe in a few years he’ll add more sandpaper. You can already tell he’s a very smart player. He went from not being a defenseman for too long to going in the NHL as a top 4 regular right out of college

 

[haohmaru]

Jess Rubenstein blocked me years ago, thank god.

 

[haohmaru]

I'll say this about the current team/coach dynamic

The way the players want to play will NEVER succeed in the playoffs.

You may beat up on hapless teams and an occasional gem against a better team in the regular season, but by and large, when good teams bear down on us, we look impish at best.

Straight line hockey wins.

Period. Full stop.

The Rangers best players do not like to play straight line hockey.

It sucks because it is THOSE guys that are setting the tone for the youth and thats unfortunate.

You know, this is exactly what I thought last year during the "play in" - they can't get away with the shit they get away with during the regular season. Their "system" is built to fail with what's required beyond the regular season.

 

[jay from jersey]

Oleksiak is UFA this summer. Does the Rangers have cap room to add him? If the Rangers are looking for size at the back Big Rig has it in spades, and he's only 28.

This is the type of 3rd pair D they would be able to add. Those guys are out there in spades. Guys that won’t cost much but that will give you solid 3rd pair play and PK duty. Add snarl too. It’s always an option for the rangers to go that route if they feel they need to make a deal to fill other holes in the line up. Problem is they feel a good 3rd pair option would be Jack Johnson smh lol

 

[rangers1314]

Oleksiak is UFA this summer. Does the Rangers have cap room to add him? If the Rangers are looking for size at the back Big Rig has it in spades, and he's only 28.

Freidman has mentioned that he wasn't moved at the deadline b/c Dallas is bent on resigning him.

He was Winnipegs target.

 

[GAGLine]

Sounds like a something I would post...

He does not sound like someone in control. He knows he can make adjustments? Tell his players to play a certain way?

Telling them to play a certain way and having them do it are 2 completely different things. Players can't just instantly change the way they play. Habits are ingrained in them. We are a team that thrives on the east-west passes, and when teams take that away from us, we struggle. Quinn can tell them to play more north-south all he wants, but until they actually do it consistently, it won't matter who is behind the bench.

 

[Daves a mess]

I'll say this about the current team/coach dynamic

The way the players want to play will NEVER succeed in the playoffs.

You may beat up on hapless teams and an occasional gem against a better team in the regular season, but by and large, when good teams bear down on us, we look impish at best.

Straight line hockey wins.

Period. Full stop.

The Rangers best players do not like to play straight line hockey.

It sucks because it is THOSE guys that are setting the tone for the youth and thats unfortunate.

I agree. The coach has lamented about this and Gorts helped build a straight line powerhouse in Boston. So he gets it.

So who are we talking about specifically regarding East/west players negatively affecting our youth? I assume we are just talking forwards and forward mentality. So...
Bread
Mika
Strome
Buch

What youth becomes negatively effected under your premise?
Laf
Chytil?
Kakko
Kravtsov

Howden, Goats are North/South and neither are part of the future.

What do we do about those 4 to help become a North/South style team?

Looks like the over simplified answer is to trade 3.

 

[MrAlmost]

I am not a particularly big fan of Quinn, but I do find it interesting that he is saying a lot of the things we say here about needing to be tougher to play against, simplify our game, make smart plays and attack mistakes, like, a playoff team. Yet, when Quinn says it, people don't like it.

The team has a lot of skill, and you need a balance of skill and grit to succeed in the playoffs. This team often wilts under the weight of a gritty game, though.

Maybe Quinn just isn't good at getting his players to play both styles? Or maybe the players we have need to shifted to get a little tougher, so to speak.

Count me as someone who would move Buch and Chytil for Horvat. I know people like Lundell, Krebs, Glass, Newhook, etc. But this team needs something a little different I think. Of course, I doubt any team that has any of these players actually trades them.

 

[kovazub94]

That Trouba is only day to day is amazing. Doesn't matter for this season but I hope for his sake that reduces the amount of post concussion issues.

Most realistic (slim as they were) chances of playoffs were eliminated on Tuesday so there’s no need to risk Trouba’s long term health in these circumstances. I’d give him till the weekend at least to see if any symptoms appear before reinserting him into the lineup (where his benefit will continue to impact Miller’s development and as a leader on the team as a whole).

 

[Daves a mess]

You know, this is exactly what I thought last year during the "play in" - they can't get away with the shit they get away with during the regular season. Their "system" is built to fail with what's required beyond the regular season.

Exactly. Fun to watch but never gonna work in a playoff game where pucks get funneled to the net and you whack a mole like a maniac.

Deflections, bounces, grease, structure, puck management.

 

[BBKers]

I actually think that, in 2 years time and with a few roster modifications, our marinating core could very well compete in the playoffs playing a skill game combined with an edge. Our kids should have developed considerabely more by then and our "vets" not deteriorated that much, if at all. Optimal situation, in theory at least. The roster tweeks need to be the right ones too. But we would then need to hire a new head coach with a consistent and realizable offensive vision adapted to the rosters strengths (with things like PP setup, line compositions, adaptibility and in game coaching, game preperation, street smarts/hanky panky when the going gets rough, aso taken into account). Martin and Allaire could stay tho.

 

[kovazub94]

These quotes says everything:

“We just weren’t playing the way we needed to if we were going to have a chance,” head coach David Quinn said. “I thought we were sloppy, I thought we were too high risk, too east-west, and weren’t playing fast enough. Once Troubs went out, our level of play dropped even more.”

“When we score goals [as against the Devils], we tend to play the way we played tonight and sometimes get carried away with it,” Quinn said. “Against a team like this, in games like this of this magnitude, that stuff doesn’t work shift in and shift out and expect to succeed.
“We learned the hard way.”

This is a guy that doesn't want us to play the way we do. And don't make this into us on a detailed level not executing or something, these are 100% structural fundamental issues. Its not about poor execution, poor decisions. Its about whether you buy into the game plan to move the puck up ice ASAP, get it deep, not risking things more than necessary or if you try something completely different and try to beat a team like the Islanders by out manuevering them.

Right or wrong, on how we should play, the issue of mind boggling proportions is that we got a team that don't play the way the coach wants. And who are the biggest culprits? Ziba, Panarin, Buch and co. The leaders of the team. This is the worst of two worlds. The players get no support from the practices designed by the coach, the game plan, the Xs and Os. Some players will buy in more than others, resulting on the playerse not being on the same page as each other. DQ says that this works against NJD but not NYI, well we just looked like complete crap for long long stretches against NJD too and stole a win, at a tremendously important part of the season. You get to that level of crappiness when you have a team that don't buy the coaches vision.

This is not what Quinn was saying AT ALL. The players were able to get away with sloppy plays and lower intensity against the Devs and it absolutely didn’t work in the last game. The Devs series in itself was a curse as the Rangers we’re playing the “right” - disciplined - way prior to these 4 games and then facing the Isles they couldn’t get back to it because young teams don’t have that vet experience to be able to quickly increase intensity levels.

 

[kovazub94]

I actually think that, in 2 years time and with a few roster modifications, our marinating core could very well compete in the playoffs playing a skill game combined with an edge. Our kids should have developed considerabely more by then and our "vets" not deteriorated that much, if at all. Optimal situation, in theory at least. The roster tweeks need to be the right ones too. But we would then neeed a new head coach with an offensive vision adapted to the rosters strength (PP setup, line compositions, adaptibility and in game coaching, game preperation, aso). Martin and Allaire could stay tho.

Agree about needing time for the youngsters to get marinated but at the same time I don’t see how Quinn is moved either (in the immediate future). He’s in the same boat as far as “let’s wait and see” goes.