Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIX: Going 11-3 to close out this crazy year should do it!

[jay from jersey]

Cuylle

Berard

 

[cheech70]

5x5 for Strome with a limited NTC, who says no?

Same contract we gave Brassard in 2014 after only a 45 point season.

Just right and Mika 5 yrs 10 million per

 

[Fitzy]

Just right and Mika 5 yrs 10 million per

If Mika was repeating last season's productivity, sure.

With what he is more realistically, which is the level he was at in 2019, I'd do 5x8 maximum.

 

[jay from jersey]

There are those who still think C positional value is a thing and that you can't win with out an elite "C". I can guarantee that those same people would have said the same thing about the Blues before they won.

The Step/Brass Rangers were good enough to win, they came close twice and the true deficiencies of that group really lied elsewhere (D, more specifically Staal and Girardi in the top 4.) Even if you subscribe to the C positional value theory, what they have right now 1-2-3 has been as productive (if not more) than most of the teams people would consider contenders - Both Zibanejad (with a rough start) and Strome would be pacing 70+ points in a full year and Chytil would be around 45 over an 82 game season.

Seems kind of silly to sell the farm when it's unnecessary, especially when that farm would go for Eichel who comes with his own list of concerns. I think they'll try as well, but I also don't think they're going to go nuts for him. I get that the entire landscape at the position for the Rangers will shift dramatically in 14 months as both Zibanejad and Strome will be UFA's, but their will be other options available between now and then too. You don't need Eichel to win, every team in the history of the NHL has won with out Jack Eichel at the position and many have won with lesser talents than Eichel down the middle.

Also your time line is a bit off. Brass for Zibanejad was well before the rebuild on the fly. Stepan was really the move that kicked that short lived process off but the situations between this group and that one couldn't be more different. It wasn't so much that Stepan and Brass weren't "elite" enough to win with, but it was about replacing them (or attempting to replace) them with younger players who could contribute more in the coming years. I think most of us would sign up for a replay of the Zibanejad trade right now rather than doing what would be the equivalent of the Rick Nash route with Eichel.

This is a great post. Agree with most everything said here. But I still don’t get the Eichel to Nash Comparisons. They both have big names and that the extent of it. Jack is only 24. He’s done some great things already but there’s nothing written in stone that if he’s traded here he’s going to stay the same or get worse. What if he has another gear to him and he gets better? I’m not saying break the bank and pull out all the stops to make him a ranger. But depending on cost, he’ll yea I want him here. This would be the most talented team he’s ever played with. We all know the top 2 lines of teams get the brunt of the minutes. If the rangers can trot out a top 6
LaF- Eichel- ??
Panarin-??/Strome- kako/Kravtsov

That’s pretty devastating skill. I don’t think Eichel is a finished product by any means. But I think he’s worth the gamble depending on cost and need and his age and term Fit this teams wheel house. He’s not the only avenue to explore, but what if rangers add a motivated jack Eichel who gets a taste for playoff hockey here and turns out for the 1st time in his career, he excels at it. Especially with all the other pieces this team has in place?

 

[Kodiak]

5x5 for Strome with a limited NTC, who says no?

Same contract we gave Brassard in 2014 after only a 45 point season.

Strome got 4.5m in arbitration after scoring 59 pts in 70 games. This year, he's putting up almost a point per game. He's going to be looking for more of a bump than 500k.

 

[jay from jersey]

Strome got 4.5m in arbitration after scoring 59 pts in 70 games. This year, he's putting up almost a point per game. He's going to be looking for more of a bump than 500k.

Strome is going to cost between 6.5 and 7 per. 2-3 years fine. Anything more then that, I’d start looking elsewhere. Tbh I’m very concerned even spending that kind of cash on strome. But if things take a disastrous turn for the worse with him, a 2-3 deal on a buyout doesn’t cripple the team

 

[jay from jersey]

If Mika was repeating last season's productivity, sure.

With what he is more realistically, which is the level he was at in 2019, I'd do 5x8 maximum.

If Mika takes a 5 yr deal he’s going to want 9-9.5 maybe even 10. This is his retirement contract. Him and his agent are going to want 7 years. For 5 expect to over pay a little. Look at kreider. He sacrificed a little less money for more years. If we expect Mika to do the opposite expect a higher number per year

 

[Matt Rentfree]

What's working and what isn't and what do we need to do to fix what isn't working?

IMO, bolded is working, non bolded isn't:

Kreider - Zibanejad - Buchnevich
Panarin - Strome - Blackwood
Lafreniere - Chytil - Kakko
PDG/Rooney - Howden/Rooney - Kravtsov/Gauthier

Miller* - Trouba
Lindgren - Fox
Hajek - Smith

Laf doesn't seem to gel well with Chytil and Kreider hasn't been good for the last month. Is switching Kreider and Laf worth a shot?

I don't necessarily mind any of our 4th liners (aside from Howden) - they all do good stuff and bad stuff in equal measure, but Kravtsov has earned a spot higher in the lineup. Common sense says Blackwood is the one to move down but he's also earned his ice time.

The star next to Miller only indicates that he's a rookie and he's going to make mistakes. He just needs time and experience but he's going to be responsible for some GA - just the way it is.

The third pairing will hopefully be fixed next year with some combination of Jones, Lundqvist, Robertson, Schneider, Reunanen.

So really, we don't NEED a whole hell of a lot. Mostly it depends on future cap space and what Zib, Strome, Buch and Fox are going to want on their next contracts. Aside from that, we need the kids to keep taking steps forward.

EDIT: I'm not the best at this, but was messing around with Capfriendly. At the start of the 23-24 season.

If Zib gets 8.5, Strome gets 6.5, Buch gets 6.5, Chytil/Kakko/Kravtsov all get 3.5, Fox gets 8x8, Lindgren gets 2.5 and Hajek gets 1.5 it leaves us with 5,932,143 to sign a 4th line, a spare F, and a backup G (assuming all the young D are still on ELC's and the cap stays flat). Do-able? Have I underpaid people? Overpaid?

 

[Kodiak]

If Mika takes a 5 yr deal he’s going to want 9-9.5 maybe even 10. This is his retirement contract. Him and his agent are going to want 7 years. For 5 expect to over pay a little. Look at kreider. He sacrificed a little less money for more years. If we expect Mika to do the opposite expect a higher number per year

Both Zibanejad and Strome will be 29 and know that this is their last shot at a big contract. I would be surprised if either gave much of a discount in salary or term.

 

[leetch99]

5x5 for Strome with a limited NTC, who says no?

Same contract we gave Brassard in 2014 after only a 45 point season.

I say we figure that out at some point next season .....a lot can happen before he is a UFA . The numbers though are well within the limits of what he deserves .

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Rangers should be shopping Strome. Any kind of contract they’d want would kill our cap and/or be a huge issue in the latter years of the deal. Both have earned their upcoming contracts. but it shouldn’t be with us unless they take a super team friendly deal, which they have no reason to do. Mika has a NMC, so trading him would be difficult. Strome has some value if you look to move him in the offseason.

 

[Kocur Dill]

What if, the end result was we trade for Eichel then send Mika to LA for Turcotte+?

Lias, Lemmy....Zibby?

Gorts loves the circle back trades.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Both Zibanejad and Strome will be 29 and know that this is their last shot at a big contract. I would be surprised if either gave much of a discount in salary or term.

My hope is that the flat cap plus the direction of the team trending up will give them reason to not try and milk every penny out of us, although that is their right.

I'd love to lock them down to slightly under market value deals but if we start talking what they could get at UFA I think you need to identify which you want to keep and look to move the other and maybe bring in someone younger with cost certainty, which is why Eichel becomes appealing. 10m is a large cap hit for him but he's an elite player and will be 29 when that deal ends as opposed to Mika who will turn 30 in the first year of his next deal, making him 37 potentially at the end of it depending on term. So with Eichel you're basically getting the player for his entire prime and with Mika you might get the last year of his prime if any of it at all. Most big contracts signed by 29 year olds are getting maybe a year or two of prime at best, Panarin being the notable exception to this.

 

[CLW]

Both Zibanejad and Strome will be 29 and know that this is their last shot at a big contract. I would be surprised if either gave much of a discount in salary or term.

I agree. Imo all 3 NYR centers (including Chytil) are potential trade ammo in the right deals. Maybe not all of them in one off season, but one or two of them are going to be traded. The Rangers have an insane amount of trade ammo right now. Everyone wants and needs scoring centers, especially teams that don't have them, and they are hardly ever available in trades. On top the Rangers have a huge amount of top rated kids coming through the ranks.

The Rangers problem is to fit all the pieces into their window. The kids will have to grow, they will have to become NHL regulars, then get play off experience, then learn what it takes to be a winning TEAM going all the way.

 

[jay from jersey]

Both Zibanejad and Strome will be 29 and know that this is their last shot at a big contract. I would be surprised if either gave much of a discount in salary or term.

Me too broski. I don’t think this is going to be a happy ending for either with this franchise

 

[duhmetreE]

There are those who still think C positional value is a thing and that you can't win with out an elite "C". I can guarantee that those same people would have said the same thing about the Blues before they won.

The Step/Brass Rangers were good enough to win, they came close twice and the true deficiencies of that group really lied elsewhere (D, more specifically Staal and Girardi in the top 4.) Even if you subscribe to the C positional value theory, what they have right now 1-2-3 has been as productive (if not more) than most of the teams people would consider contenders - Both Zibanejad (with a rough start) and Strome would be pacing 70+ points in a full year and Chytil would be around 45 over an 82 game season.

Seems kind of silly to sell the farm when it's unnecessary, especially when that farm would go for Eichel who comes with his own list of concerns. I think they'll try as well, but I also don't think they're going to go nuts for him. I get that the entire landscape at the position for the Rangers will shift dramatically in 14 months as both Zibanejad and Strome will be UFA's, but their will be other options available between now and then too. You don't need Eichel to win, every team in the history of the NHL has won with out Jack Eichel at the position and many have won with lesser talents than Eichel down the middle.

Also your time line is a bit off. Brass for Zibanejad was well before the rebuild on the fly. Stepan was really the move that kicked that short lived process off but the situations between this group and that one couldn't be more different. It wasn't so much that Stepan and Brass weren't "elite" enough to win with, but it was about replacing them (or attempting to replace) them with younger players who could contribute more in the coming years. I think most of us would sign up for a replay of the Zibanejad trade right now rather than doing what would be the equivalent of the Rick Nash route with Eichel.

With our roster and modern day hockey, I would like our centers to be our best skaters, relentless with great motors/compete and to excel on defense.

It’s why I have been enamored with Cirielli. It’s why I’d rather go after a player like Larkin.

Center is the last position that needs to be defined. Can a player fill that role who’s already on this team? It’s the last piece to the puzzle and management will have to make it clear, real soon.

 

[cwede]

i guess sometimes we do agree with Pierre McGuire

 

[AWall THE CLAW]

Kravtsov has shown enough to warrant at least some consideration on any wing in the Top 9, and it's obvious KZB isn't working anymore (but Zib-Buch is). Also, that Laf/Chytil ain't it, chief. They always seem to get in each others' way... yesterday's nice tally notwithstanding. Blackwell can be that guy that slots in anywhere if there is an injury without the whole offense missing a beat because of it. Our cap space ought to be used to retain this group, which includes extensions for Zibanejad and Strome (the one that is Top 8 in both goals for and goals against on the season playing in the Division From Hell) and to fortify depth players, specifically the 3rd defensive pair and 4th line. I don't have an issue with Chytil or Kakko being 3rd line players. Pouliot - Brass - Zucc was a "third" line and look at the matchup hell they caused for the opposition in the 2014 playoffs.

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Buchnevich
Panarin - Strome - Kravtsov
Kreider - Chytil - Kakko
something something Blackwell or kids or a solid vet i.e. Dominic Moore in 14-15... they'll figure it out.

 

[bl02]

Will suck to see Strome and Buch go but their trade value has to be pretty good. On other hand I would love to see what this roster could do next year mostly intact.
But thinking down the road one or maybe both have to go.

 

[ETTER DE]

Yes LOL ...Barkov will be the ripe old age of 31 .....AFTER his 5th season as a Ranger ! He will be so OLD he won't be of any use to us LOL.....I think if we had a shot I would take my chances of him being successful until the Senior Home age of 33 on a 7 year deal starting in the 22-23 season .

Havent even mentioned Barkov. WTF are you talking about?

 

[cwede]

Both Zibanejad and Strome will be 29 and know that this is their last shot at a big contract. I would be surprised if either gave much of a discount in salary or term.

Everyone expects every player to just try to max out.
Is there a meaningful difference, to the quality of life for the player and his family,
between $35 and $50M?
what gets overlooked sometimes is this -
one of the best things about having money is that you don't have to make decisions based on money

 

[The New Russian Five]

Everyone expects every player to just try to max out.
Is there a meaningful difference, to the quality of life for the player and his family,
between $35 and $50M?
what gets overlooked sometimes is this -
one of the best things about having money is that you don't have to make decisions based on money

Yes, when you basically factor in the amount lost in taxes, agent fees, union dues, etc. and the fact that they basically retire at the tender age of 35ish.

 

[Fitzy]

Everyone expects every player to just try to max out.
Is there a meaningful difference, to the quality of life for the player and his family,
between $35 and $50M?
what gets overlooked sometimes is this -
one of the best things about having money is that you don't have to make decisions based on money

Oh for sure.

When you consider that you can usually invest 75% of that money and usually live pretty comfortably, and the average rate of returns on investments, that 15 million (maybe 9 after taxes) could turn into 20, 30 million many years down the line. You could potentially set your family, and extended family up with tuition, stipends, summer homes, ect.

I had an Aunt who retired with 5 million in assets that turned into 8+ in the 20 years before she passed. That's a lot of cheddar to spread around the family.

 

[bobbop]

I take this as their no-fly list is just Byfield.

I'd imagine LA offers Turcotte, Bjornfot/Kaliyev, young roster player and a 1?

I wasn’t told but it’s a good guess.

 

[bobbop]

One thing that gives me pause about any major trade is that one of the strengths of this team is you have a group of young players (who are really good) growing up together. This is how great teams are built. I could see one trade if the right pieces are available but the Rangers may be content to add on the edges and let this team grow together. This was always Glenn Sather’s mantra and even though he isn’t on the letterhead anymore, he still is an influence here.

Pierre is right. Just don’t f*** it up.