Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXII: Stepping up in a Perfect Storm?

[True Blue]

yes?

When he's given PP2 time, in the same position Blackwell is on in PP1... It's very bad. If you're implying Quinn is getting directives to keep Lafreniere off of PP1, I don't know what to say to that.

It's obvious and simple. Starting to think, Quinn believes doing the obvious is a super power. You put your best players/talent on the ice on the PP. Players like Lafreniere excel with space and time. He should be a staple on the PP/4v4/3v3.

I am implying that the way that the top pick is being handled is a decision that does not solely lie with the coach.

Clearly you do as you believe that Quinn is a super power that can do what he wants to with impunity Believing that how to develop players is a decision that is not done in consultation with Gorton & JD is pretty silly to me.

 

[Machinehead]

It has to. It looks like the plan is to shelter young rookies. It happened with Kakko and now with Laffy. I don’t think I agree with this, but this has to be the plan.

Don't they know that you could not possibly be more sheltered than powerplay? Your team is going to be getting 85% of the shots.

Like...they don't know this?

 

[True Blue]

not in rage at all. Just wanna see the only true first overall prospect we will probably see in our lifetime get a chance over two guys who are what they are.

Ok. Am more than fine in seeing how things unfold. If Lafreniere's play shows that he deserves it, am sure that Quinn will move him there. There really is nothing to worry about until there is something to worry about. At least not me.

 

[Machinehead]

It's not always about deserving it. Sometimes you need to get guys going by putting them in the best position possible.

It's probably not worth harping on the rest of the day and the entire GDT (you guys are gonna do that anyway, I'm sure) but it's really hard to defend this one.

 

[pld459666]

It has to. It looks like the plan is to shelter young rookies. It happened with Kakko and now with Laffy. I don’t think I agree with this, but this has to be the plan.

That's my thought as well.

I do not agree with it, but I have aa feeling that the plan is to bestow more TOI and Responsibility to Laf as the season wears on.

However, much like his inability to manage in game, DQ is not showing an ability to manage this player on the fly.

I personally believe, as @Machinehead stated, playing him more with the man advantage will both help develop his offensive instincts and allow him to relax knowing that mistakes are less costly 5 on 4 vs. 5/5

right now, my PP1 would be

AL on the left boards
KK on the right boards
CK in Front
Mika and Fox manning the points with Mika being a roamer as well.

Need to get Strome on PP1

 

[eco's bones]

Not sure why playing Blackwell on PP1 and Lafreniere on PP2 is bad for morale. Who's morale? The players? The fans? So far Blackwell has made more shit happen.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Is that because you also correctly precited that at the time of Gorton trading for Fox he was already a near elite player and that Miller was fully developed in Wisconsin?

No it’s because Tob correctly points out all the reasons why Quinn has not been as successful as you desperately want him to be. I hate to break this to you but Quinn isn’t going to be your friend. He doesn’t know who you are.

 

[duhmetreE]

I am implying that the way that the top pick is being handled is a decision that does not solely lie with the coach.

Clearly you do as you believe that Quinn is a super power that can do what he wants to with impunity Believing that how to develop players is a decision that is not done in consultation with Gorton & JD is pretty silly to me.

You are all over the place...

The decision/strategy/formula to develop our kids, comes with the directive that they cant play on PP1?? what? How did you come to that conclusion? How would PP1 time hurt their development? Kakko started on PP1 last year. He played well and was taken off for some reason I cant remember. Lafreniere looks much better than Kakko did for the majority of last season.

Panarin is going to be missing for 2 week. Put Laf on PP1. Playing a certain way 5v5 and getting PP1 times are two completely different things. Lafreniere is our best option. He gives the PP the best chance for success, in turn giving the team the best chance to win. Not Blackwell. If they are 'sheltering' Lafreniere from PP1 times.... that just flat out embarrassingly dumb

Are we playing to win as a team? or are we playing to develop individuals? Lafreniere getting PP1 time does both, so I really do not understand your argument.

 

[HonestGabe]

It's not always about deserving it. Sometimes you need to get guys going by putting them in the best position possible.

It's probably not worth harping on the rest of the day and the entire GDT (you guys are gonna do that anyway, I'm sure) but it's really hard to defend this one.

Not that I have played at any level comparable to professional hockey, but I had a coach growing up who would do this when players were in a drought or playing a defensive role on a lower line.

Being on a man advantage gives the player a confidence boost and (this goes without saying) slows the game down for them to make better decisions with and away from the puck in the offensive zone.

I think young skilled players in particular should play down low on the power play to give them an opportunity to adjust to pace and see the ice better. Over time, that breeds confidence and can simplify the game for them.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Can you imagine attempting to defend putting Blackwell over Laf on the top PP? That person would have to be a David Quinn burner account.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

It has to. It looks like the plan is to shelter young rookies. It happened with Kakko and now with Laffy. I don’t think I agree with this, but this has to be the plan.

Shelter them from success is all it’s doing

 

[bobbop]

Hockey coaches are the ultimate perishable. Julien and Laviolette have been fired four times (and Laviolette is working on his fifth) and Gallant has been whacked three times.

I would love to have John Cooper come in here but that's unlikely. Tippett would be a perfect choice but I think he is pretty well set in Edmonton. Long term coaches are very much the exception to the rule.

Coaches are hired to be fired. Quinn has an expiration date that's probably sooner than later. The only question is when does that happen.

Just remember though, we will probably be hiring a guy who has been (recently) fired.

 

[duhmetreE]

Can you imagine attempting to defend putting Blackwell over Laf on the top PP? That person would have to be a David Quinn burner account.

@True Blue goes to extreme lengths to defend/excuse Quinn. There's no need to complicate the obvious and simple answer, that Quinn is not as good as some think he is. I know some like to play the part of contrarian but this is a weird one to choose. Quinn has always been bad with player/lineup management. There's no secret directive here... and it certainly does not entail 'keep them off PP1, so they can develop as planned'.

Quinn has struggled with many things while excelling in other areas. He doesn't 'suck' at everything. Overall, I do not think he's a good HEAD coach. He has served his purpose over the past 3 years. He can improve as a coach but the excuses and theories used, to explain his 'bad decisions' is baffling to me.

He is what he is. Saying anything different doesn't magically change it.

 

[Raspewtin]

Not sure why playing Blackwell on PP1 and Lafreniere on PP2 is bad for morale. Who's morale? The players? The fans? So far Blackwell has made more shit happen.

yeah and Rooney has "made more happen" than Zib and I sure as f*** want him far away from the PP.

 

[duhmetreE]

Hockey coaches are the ultimate perishable. Julien and Laviolette have been fired four times (and Laviolette is working on his fifth) and Gallant has been whacked three times.

I would love to have John Cooper come in here but that's unlikely. Tippett would be a perfect choice but I think he is pretty well set in Edmonton. Long term coaches are very much the exception to the rule.

Coaches are hired to be fired. Quinn has an expiration date that's probably sooner than later. The only question is when does that happen.

Just remember though, we will probably be hiring a guy who has been (recently) fired.

I think this team/locker room needs an Alpha-type personality. Unless I am missing someone, I only see Babcock as that type.

I honestly would love a Gallant/Martin combo.

 

[duhmetreE]

Not sure why playing Blackwell on PP1 and Lafreniere on PP2 is bad for morale. Who's morale? The players? The fans? So far Blackwell has made more shit happen.

A player like Laf, who has struggled... getting Blackwell chosen over him for the same position on the PP? You do not see how this can affect Laf's morale/confidence?

 

[Machinehead]

Hockey coaches are the ultimate perishable. Julien and Laviolette have been fired four times (and Laviolette is working on his fifth) and Gallant has been whacked three times.

I would love to have John Cooper come in here but that's unlikely. Tippett would be a perfect choice but I think he is pretty well set in Edmonton. Long term coaches are very much the exception to the rule.

Coaches are hired to be fired. Quinn has an expiration date that's probably sooner than later. The only question is when does that happen.

Just remember though, we will probably be hiring a guy who has been (recently) fired.

At this point, I just want an NHL coach.

We have some young guys that need to learn how to play the NHL. I don't think Quinn can do that because he doesn't know how to coach in the NHL. He's never been good in the NHL. His last job was as an assistant on Colorado's much maligned Joe Sacco staff. That team was one of the biggest laughing stocks since the lockout.

I haven't seen any improvement from Quinn insofar as developing an NHL system. "Rah rah rah let's go" only goes so far.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

It’s hard to even attempt a defense at Lafreniere not being on PP1 at this point. I’d have to agree with that.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Can you imagine attempting to defend putting Blackwell over Laf on the top PP? That person would have to be a David Quinn burner account.

Here's the thing though, LAF will start the game and get more minutes with better quality players than Blackwell will, all night long. That's more important than PP time.

 

[duhmetreE]

Here's the thing though, LAF will start the game and get more minutes with better quality players than Blackwell will, all night long. That's more important than PP time.

I disagree. I'd rather have him play when his probability of success goes up. I still want him to develop a complete 2way game but why not both?

Especially considering our PP1 usually gets 1:45 of the 2 minutes.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I disagree. I'd rather have him play when his probability of success goes up. I still want him to develop a complete 2way game but why not both?

Especially considering our PP1 usually gets 1:45 of the 2 minutes.

So the 3-5 minutes he would get on PPI is more important the the other 54 minutes? Sweet!

 

[bl02]

I disagree. I'd rather have him play when his probability of success goes up. I still want him to develop a complete 2way game but why not both?

Especially considering our PP1 usually gets 1:45 of the 2 minutes.

There is no such thing as pp2 on this team or many teams for that matter. It's a joke. You are either on the first unit or you're not getting real pp time.
The last 15 seconds of trying to enter the offensive zone is worth very little.

 

[bl02]

So the 3-5 minutes he would get on PPI is more important the the other 54 minutes? Sweet!

Why not have both? Great that DQ is giving him top line minutes but why not real pp time over two guys who are ok and we already know what they are.

 

[duhmetreE]

So the 3-5 minutes he would get on PPI is more important the the other 54 minutes? Sweet!

No....

The 3-5 minutes of PP1 along with 10-12 minutes of ES time.

as oppose to

1 Minute of PP2 time along with 12-14 minutes of ES time.

Do you understand the difference?

 

[Mac n Gs]

While Laf’s underlying powerplay numbers surely aren’t inspiring (most likely a by-product of small sample sizes), I do think it’s worth giving him the chance to run that unit through the left circle. Blackwell is probably there to keep the same set-up with Panarin out, but I wonder if we might be better off trying something similar with how TOR uses Matthews and Marner. Matthews is technically their left pointman in their first unit, but he rotates a lot between being above and in the left circle. Marner is used in the same way we use Strome, but I’d rather have Mika there.


That set-up forces a lot of play laterally across the slot, allows us to shift Kreider side-to-side as the net-front screen, and forces us to start shooting from both sides of the ice. Will it happen? Probably not, but it could be an interesting setup until Panarin returns. When he’s back, there’s really no reason they don’t use an umbrella setup with RHS and LHS option at the left and right circle, respectively. Zib can play the bumper and be a mid-slot shot option.

This is what I want when healthy:
Kreider
Panarin-Mika-Buch/Kakko/Laf
Fox