Generational all time greats and their sidekicks

[hangman005]

What she said.

 

[Toby91ca]

I would totally put Jagr as generational. He was the best player in the league for many years, sometimes head and shoulders above everyone else. Guy was scoring 127 pts when everyone was doing 90 and he had zero legit partners.

Like we said the generational players were all playing with all time greats but Jagr had no one after mario retired and he was still the best of his generation.

4 straight years leading scorer of the league and many more where he was at the top.

You make it seem like he was routinely scoring around 127pts when everyone else was in the 90s (so 30-40pt spread).....what exactly are you talking about here? I can't even find a single season where this happened.

He's absolutely an all-time great player, he's won 5 scoring titles, but your description of his domination over the rest of the league is a bit exaggerated. His 5 scoring titles:

1995 - tied with Lindros, he won on tiebreaker with 3 more goals (he also played 2 more games)
1998 - won by 9pts over Forsberg, who played 5 fewer games....so could have been closer
1999 - won by 20pts (this is the 127pt season....but everyone else doing 90 is inaccurate, #2 was at 107 (played 6 fewer games, so could have been closer), #3 at 101, #4 at 97, etc. Dominant year for sure....but you made it look like 40pts above everyone else.
2000 - won by 2pts (he played 11 less games though)
2001 - won by 3 pts.

What about Orr and Esposito?

Honestly, I don't think it's that odd. You can probably take an all-time list of great players and check to see who they played with and likely find another guy who is all-time or close to it...depending on how you define all-time great.

If you are a good player, I suspect if you joint he league and get to play with an all-time great player, you are going to do pretty good.

 

[NyQuil]

Coffey is the lucky one.

He basically played his entire career with generational or near-generational players.

Terrific player in his own right, but his teammates are a "who's who" of the all-time greats.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Ovechkin didin't need it , goat

Greatness leads to greater greatness, is my take. Backstrom, Carlson, those dudes produced better numbers and simply played better with the time and space Ovi opened up. Neither is a great sidekick, but another example is Rantanen. Sidekick material in Colorado, now struggling to be the man in Carolina. Jagr, meanwhile, went from sidekick to the man, and I’m not sure how much you can chalk up to Mario’s tutalage.

What I think I’m trying to say is- it’s less coincidence than you’d think. Highly skilled players often bring the most outta untapped talents- I’m not sure Drai is a 50 goal, 100 point guy unless he has some time to figure out what works while McD takes a lot of the focus.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I would totally put Jagr as generational. He was the best player in the league for many years, sometimes head and shoulders above everyone else. Guy was scoring 127 pts when everyone was doing 90 and he had zero legit partners.

Like we said the generational players were all playing with all time greats but Jagr had no one after mario retired and he was still the best of his generation.

4 straight years leading scorer of the league and many more where he was at the top.

I think Jagr's supporting cast is incredibly underrated.

Kovalev was obviously elevated his numbers playing with Jagr, but he was immensely talented. He had insanely great (and frustrating) games in New York, and even put up a 35goal PPG season as a solo artist in Montreal.
Straka was a PPG player with Jagr on 2 teams. He clearly elevated Jagr.
Robert Lang continued to be very productive. He was traded with Jagr to the Caps and even out-produced Jagr in their 2nd year.

Yeah, they weren't the same supporting cast as the 4 teams that would win all the cups, but the top end of the Penguins was still pretty potent offensively for most of Jagr's tenure there.

McDavid had to lug around Pat Maroon on his wing, and players like like Ty Rattie, Nail Yakupov, and Jesse Puljujaarvi.

 

[RRhoads]

Coffey is the lucky one.

He basically played his entire career with generational or near-generational players.

Terrific player in his own right, but his teammates are a "who's who" of the all-time greats.

I remember an interview back in the 90s that he said so himself.

 

[Bombshell11]

You make it seem like he was routinely scoring around 127pts when everyone else was in the 90s (so 30-40pt spread).....what exactly are you talking about here? I can't even find a single season where this happened.

He's absolutely an all-time great player, he's won 5 scoring titles, but your description of his domination over the rest of the league is a bit exaggerated. His 5 scoring titles:

1995 - tied with Lindros, he won on tiebreaker with 3 more goals (he also played 2 more games)
1998 - won by 9pts over Forsberg, who played 5 fewer games....so could have been closer
1999 - won by 20pts (this is the 127pt season....but everyone else doing 90 is inaccurate, #2 was at 107 (played 6 fewer games, so could have been closer), #3 at 101, #4 at 97, etc. Dominant year for sure....but you made it look like 40pts above everyone else.
2000 - won by 2pts (he played 11 less games though)
2001 - won by 3 pts.

What about Orr and Esposito?

Honestly, I don't think it's that odd. You can probably take an all-time list of great players and check to see who they played with and likely find another guy who is all-time or close to it...depending on how you define all-time great.

If you are a good player, I suspect if you joint he league and get to play with an all-time great player, you are going to do pretty good.

i generalised and exaggerated a little but actually when you look at the stats from “everyone else” he was 20-30 points above most of the best players from all teams combined

Yes you had a few exceptions like Colorado’s duo in Forsberg, Sakic and Anaheim’s Selanne and Kariya

But at the time Jagr’s best teammate was Straka, there was nothing in Pittsburgh for him to feed from.

102 season he was 23 pts ahead the 10th guy and 12 pts from Bure (3rd) with 5 lesser games played. 11 prs from Forsberg (2nd)

121 season, 25 pts from the third guy

 

[qc14]

Ovechkin didin't need it , goat

Either everyone admits that Backstrom and Carlson are HoFers or that he's the only one to do it with no help, I win either way

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Either everyone admits that Backstrom and Carlson are HoFers or that he's the only one to do it with no help, I win either way

Backstrom and Carlson are amazing players , just not at the level of the monsters that the OP was talking about

 

[Golden_Jet]

Stan Mikita and Bobby Hull, didn’t play on the same line though, not sure if that matters.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

i generalised and exaggerated a little but actually when you look at the stats from “everyone else” he was 20-30 points above most of the best players from all teams combined

Yes you had a few exceptions like Colorado’s duo in Forsberg, Sakic and Anaheim’s Selanne and Kariya

But at the time Jagr’s best teammate was Straka, there was nothing in Pittsburgh for him to feed from.

102 season he was 23 pts ahead the 10th guy and 12 pts from Bure (3rd) with 5 lesser games played. 11 prs from Forsberg (2nd)

121 season, 25 pts from the third guy

It's hard to overstate just how far ahead he was. Between 1995 and 2001, over about 450 possible games, there were only 4 guys who weren't 200+ points behind Jagr (Selanne -123, Sakic -138, Forsberg -160, and Kariya -198), and just 27 that were less than 300 points behind. In terms of PPG, he had a 0.21 lead on anyone not named Mario Lemieux.

 

[benfranklin]

If McDavid leaves, does Draisaitl fall off?