Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXX: Going 8-0 to close out might not be enough!

[McRanger]

Expansion Mock Draft on the Athletic:

Mock expansion draft 6.0: For the Seattle Kraken, now it’s getting real

There are actually 2 mocks here. The first was done by Eric Duhatschek (the writer of the article) and Ryan S. Clark, who reports on the Kraken for the Athletic.

Duhatschek's Ranger pick:



No mention of Gauthier, who will be exposed if Blackwell is protected. Also remember that if we protect Blackwell, we have to sign someone prior to the expansion draft to meet the exposure requirements. We have to expose 2 forwards who meet the games played criteria and are under contract for next year. Right now, only Strome, Blackwell and Rooney meet both requirements. PDG, Gauthier and Howden all meet the games played requirement, so if we re-sign any of them prior to the expansion draft, then we'll know that we are protecting Blackwell.

Clark's pick:



So they are both in agreement that Howden will be the pick.

If Gauthier is still around after the expansion draft, we will have the following winger options: Panarin, Kreider, Laf, Buch, Kakko, Kravtsov, Gauthier. Gauthier isn't a 4th liner, so again he will be without a role unless we move someone.

I’m not sure I see an analytics heavy team, like the Kraken are purported to be, taking Brett Howden.

 

[kovazub94]

I think it's okay not to be sold on a young player, but I do think when young players have certain attributes it is in everyone's best interest to fully explore them and see what you've got.

In the end, maybe you have nothing.

But I also think Gauthier is a pretty unique combination that requires more time, patience and development before making a judgement call. In my mind, he isn't competing for the same spot as Kakko, or Buch, or even Kravtsov. He's a guy you take a look at in a bottom six role.

At the end of the day, I don't find myself tired of seeing aforementioned three forwards. I get somewhat tired of rolling out there with not one, not two, sometimes not even three, but upwards of four forwards who really have little to no future here.

Frankly that's probably my biggest ongoing disagreement with DQ. I don't mind using some of those guys to plug holes. It's when we start to see all or most of them in the lineup, and the usage starts to occur on the regular.

 

[True Blue]

As I've said before, I'm not going to get on Quinn for going with Howden on the fourth line as long as they remain in the hunt for a PO spot. It makes sense that he'd take the guy who PKs and can play center/take faceoffs over a project who's still a WIP to play on the fourth line under such a circumstance. And despite having been a fan of Gauthier's potential from the beginning, by no means am I predicting he's a lock to realize the full upside of that potential here, or anywhere else in the NHL for that matter.

But the responses after you brought him up completely ignoring/forgetting/missing the bolded blow my mind. But for a couple of blips like the three high-stickings game (wherein he also scored a goal, let's not forget) he was showing clear and steady progression.

And that's a fair assessment. One of Quinn's issues seems to be going with the comfort guys. This is not about Rooney, who is just fine as a 4C. This is about Howden, Digi & Blackwell. And I have no real problems with Blackwell as a 4th line forward . But there does seem to be some reliance on his comfort guys, almost seemingly to treat them as if they are players on a level higher than they really are. I will say that is a thing that all coaches do, but it is still a thing.

With Gauthier, I am really beginning to think that despite the improvements in his game and in a stretch where he was playing at a level that has been the best, that there is something that the coaching staff wants from him that he is not doing. Be that board work, net front work, more assertive physical play, what ever. But that is just conjecture.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Delete

 

[Fitzy]

This team is not far away in the skill department from competing for a cup. I know that's probably a controversial statement, but the talent is there. It's just the third pairing that needs improvement, and more development from Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Miller.

The issue is consistency and experience, and (IMO) coaching.

So I'm not sure blowing up the center ice position by trading Zib and Strome for guys who won't peak for another 4 years is the best play.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Sounds like Blackwell will have to be bedridden before kravtsov gets bumped up. Pathetic.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Personally I liked glimpses of what Gauthier was showing. But let’s be honest he was in a wide open competition vs Blackwell and PDG for a permanent spot and didn’t grab it the way Blackwell did.

At the same time I will have absolutely no qualms which one of Blackwell, Gauthier, Howden or PDG gets protection or gets picked by Seattle. I was a lot more invested in Fast and Lindberg decision vs this group.

That's the he thing with the Gauth--gliimpses. Talent and speed out the wazoo. Quick to learn once he gets it, which might not happen. Blackwell is 10000% Prucha-will.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I’m not sure I see an analytics heavy team, like the Kraken are purported to be, taking Brett Howden.

If we as a group see problems with players like howden for example, I would think trained eyes see the same thing. We’re stuck with dq and howden.

 

[dshea19]

The issue is that Quinn has had it in his head since Fast walked that that line needs a garbageman to do the dirty work. That's why I've been a little indifferent on that spot--whoever plays there is going to be asked to play a limited game, a secondary role on the line in service to the other two guys. Panarin and Strome need to be split up. Put Chytil and Kakko with Panarin, and then put Strome between Kreider and Kravtsov. It makes those two middle six lines much more balanced.

Agreed. I think the only way Kakko works with Panarin is with Strome gone. Kakko and Bread both need to handle the puck. Strome and Bread both handle a lot and play a 2-man game, which then leaves Kakko out of it. That is, IMO, why Kakko hasn't worked on that line. If they aren't moving Strome, Kravy is better suited to that line. He can do everything Blackwell can and far more. He has shown enough in his D game to be trusted with more. On top of that, he has the speed to recover from a mistake that Blackwell doesn't have.
I get that Quinn is doing what he thinks is best in order to make the playoffs, but if/when they are eliminated, it is time to put more on the kids shoulders and let them make their mistakes. Invest now to reap later.

 

[Machinehead]

I could see leaning on Blackwell back when he was red hot and Kakko and Laf were doing nothing.

All of those ships have sailed.

 

[Raspewtin]

I could see leaning on Blackwell back when he was red hot and Kakko and Laf were doing nothing.

All of those ships have sailed.

feels like they perceive blackwell as a reliable enough two-way forward who can play a lite-Fast role. but the reality is he has a nice shot and decent speed with no defensive presence or forechecking speak of. he does not fit any irritating "reliable grinder" archetype, which is probably why people are frustrated with him. he's not even a veteran, he has less NHL games than Kakko.

 

[broadwayblue]

This team is not far away in the skill department from competing for a cup. I know that's probably a controversial statement, but the talent is there. It's just the third pairing that needs improvement, and more development from Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Miller.

The issue is consistency and experience, and (IMO) coaching.

So I'm not sure blowing up the center ice position by trading Zib and Strome for guys who won't peak for another 4 years is the best play.

They said Eichel will be ready to go on opening day.

 

[GAGLine]

I’m not sure I see an analytics heavy team, like the Kraken are purported to be, taking Brett Howden.

They may not have any better options.

 

[SA16]

They may not have any better options.

Almost anyone would be a better option, including just drafting a FA-to be and not signing him.

 

[haohmaru]

This much hostility to someone that plays less than 10 minutes of ES time on the 4th line? Oh my.

it is truly ridiculous

 

[kovazub94]

feels like they perceive blackwell as a reliable enough two-way forward who can play a lite-Fast role. but the reality is he has a nice shot and decent speed with no defensive presence or forechecking speak of. he does not fit any irritating "reliable grinder" archetype, which is probably why people are frustrated with him. he's not even a veteran, he has less NHL games than Kakko.

Maybe Coaches have a lot more information from practices to see why Blackwell worked (over Gauthier) both up and down the lineup. Kakko was given (and will continue to get) opportunities in top-6 but he wasn’t able to lock it down permanently. Eventually he will get it.

 

[RGY]

it is truly ridiculous

Is it though? Because against the Islanders Howden had a point blank chance to get the Rangers back in the game and of course failed miserably.

And then against Philly he couldn’t finish a tap-in shorthanded that likely takes the wind out of their sails.

Are those games all his fault? Maybe not, but the timing of each occurrence were crucial points in each game.

So I guess its crazy to want to give Gauthier a look instead, who is more offensively gifted...which the bar is set very low by Mr. Howden.

And for the people that clamor for his ability to PK, I guarantee Blackwell can be just as efficient in his spot next to Rooney.

I pray Seattle is dumb enough to take Howden

 

[Raspewtin]

This much hostility to someone that plays less than 10 minutes of ES time on the 4th line? Oh my.

didn't know that a bad player is ok as long as they play less than 10 minutes

Maybe Coaches have a lot more information from practices to see why Blackwell worked (over Gauthier) both up and down the lineup. Kakko was given (and will continue to get) opportunities in top-6 but he wasn’t able to lock it down permanently. Eventually he will get it.

well the actual games are not bearing out this practice information.

 

[jay from jersey]

Pros for keeping Strome

Chemistry with Panarin
Lack of center depth in prospect pool
Versatility to play multiple positions
Plays both PP and PK competently
Leadership

Cons for keeping Strome

Limited cap space
Quinn pp1 insistence
Questionable forechecking and d zone effort at even strength
Potentially blocks Chytil from top 6
Unclear on playoff performance

I really wish we had gotten to see him in the playoffs this season. That would have eased my mind a lot about a long term extension if he had performed well. But with the overwhelming depth we have at wing, I'm comfortable going to battle with Zibby, Strome, Chytil down the middle for the next 3-4 seasons.

Strome has been so good this year that he’s going to price himself out of his next contract with us

 

[Fitzy]

Strome has been so good this year that he’s going to price himself out of his next contract with us

If that happens then so be it. I’d send him a firm but fair offer like 5x5 and leave it in his hands.

I won’t blame him if he wants to cash in on the biggest contract of his career but if he asks more than we can budget it’s okay to move on.

 

[kovazub94]

didn't know that a bad player is ok as long as they play less than 10 minutes


well the actual games are not bearing out this practice information.

Which part? Kakko given chances in top-6 or that Blackwell did better than Gauthier over the whole season?

 

[leetch99]

Our message to Gauthier when we traded for him was to play big, use his size. He has started to drive to the net a bit more.

But I’ve said it before, I don’t quite buy the ‘excuse’ that someone like him ‘is not a physical player’. He just needs to be more aggressive on the ice and get more involved.

If he threw down a few times a year too...it would make him popular with his teammates . Just have to tweak his game as I have been saying for a few days now and he is a rich man and a 10 year NHL regular on a great club...same goes for Howden . Not sure why Gorton can't have a sit down with them both and show them the path they need to follow and if they won't....just move them out . We will soon enough have guys that will play that way for us .

 

[Raspewtin]

Which part? Kakko given chances in top-6 or that Blackwell did better than Gauthier over the whole season?

blackwell's been worthless since he stopped shooting 30% and he adds absolutely nothing to a line that desperately needs a forechecker.

im not saying he should sit but the whole top 6 thing with him should really be done at this point.

 

[RGY]

Gauthier is 5th on the team in penalties drawn with 8. Tied for 11th on the team in Rebounds created. And he is 11th on the team in Hits. Those numbers/rankings are definitely higher if he gets more than the lousy 27 games. The team lead for penalties drawn is 14 (Smith) with Zibanejad being 2nd at 10 drawn.

The point is, the kid makes things happen. He does get involved. He had one bad game of penalties. One. And somehow this kid cant get back in the lineup to take the 4th line minutes from Howden when he is creating more positive play?

This has been a completely mishandled situation by David Quinn.

 

[Raspewtin]

Gauthier is 5th on the team in penalties drawn with 8. Tied for 11th on the team in Rebounds created. And he is 11th on the team in Hits. Those numbers/rankings are definitely higher if he gets more than the lousy 27 games. The team lead for penalties drawn is 14 (Smith) with Zibanejad being 2nd at 10 drawn.

The point is, the kid makes things happen. He does get involved. He had one bad game of penalties. One. And somehow this kid cant get back in the lineup to take the 4th line minutes from Howden when he is creating more positive play?

This has been a completely mishandled situation by David Quinn.

right like I particularly don't understand Gauthier because he's big and physical, and he drives the net. definitely things not a lot of our players are known for. like, we're dying for a player that Gauthier could be but we're running blackwell instead. not as if he didn't earn it but this 19 minutes a game stuff for a career minor leaguer is just so odd. he's the exact kind of player where you ride the hot hand then move on when it dries up.