Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXX: Going 8-0 to close out might not be enough!

[EpicDing]

At this point it isn’t a bad strome narrative, but a what does he want for his next contract because no one assumes he stays at 4.5m.
If he takes a small raise for 4-5 years, say closer to 5-6m then i don’t think anyone has a problem.

Oh yeah, it wasn't really related to that post but I do still see it a bit around here.

 

[GAGLine]

At this point it isn’t a bad strome narrative, but a what does he want for his next contract because no one assumes he stays at 4.5m.
If he takes a small raise for 4-5 years, say closer to 5-6m then i don’t think anyone has a problem.

I'd like more of a 2-way player at that spot, but Strome isn't a bad choice in lieu of that.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Next year will reveal all that is secret to us now

 

[Ola]

Therein lies the problem.

Either you are that type of player, or you are not.

Hes clearly NOT that type of player so its never going to be a consistent thing for him.

You can't coach guys into being physical players. They have to want to be that.

Yeah maybe, but at the same time, I don't know if it really is a legit excuse.

First of all, absolutely, I think sometimes that is a large misconception that it is "easy" to play physical, to make hits etc. That its something someone either opts to do or not to do. That is of course not the case, its a skill. And often, the bigger you are -- the harder you will have catching players and landing hits. But there are many more small things someone like Gauthier can do. Like just making his presence felt in front of the net. He should hit more and harder. The speed he is moving around at, its not as if he never will get a shot at landing a heavy hit.

Ultimately its of course up to him, but if he doesn't start to play more physical, I don't think he stands a shot at winning and keeping a position in the line-up. And the same actually applies to Brett Howden. These guys can't become Kirk Maltby II over night. But I do think they can improve their chances of winning spots on the team and helping the team by simply becoming harder to play against.

 

[True Blue]

At this point it isn’t a bad strome narrative, but a what does he want for his next contract because no one assumes he stays at 4.5m.
If he takes a small raise for 4-5 years, say closer to 5-6m then i don’t think anyone has a problem.

Strome is a good complimentary piece or an excellent stop gap piece, however you want to view it. If he can be extended for let's say $6 for 3 years, I would take it. That will also get him to UFA status at 30, after another 4 years of playing with Panarin on an up and coming team.

What I do not see happening is both him and Mika here together. I think that as soon as next year, the "sink or swim" part with Chytil has arrived. He is trending to that min-40ish points while primarily playing on the third line, with no PP time and had a year with a fairly serious injury and Covid on top if it all. He looks to be the part of a 2C. If he is in the fold, then I think that Gorton & JD come back with one of Strome or ZBad.

Right now, my gut feeling is that they make some sort of a deal with Mika (not $10m for 8 years) and try to move Strome. But from a cost perspective, Strome and Chytil would allow for more cap space. Strome can continue to play with Panarin easily and that takes care of what the opposition would look at as the top line.

 

[Fitzy]

At this point it isn’t a bad strome narrative, but a what does he want for his next contract because no one assumes he stays at 4.5m.
If he takes a small raise for 4-5 years, say closer to 5-6m then i don’t think anyone has a problem.

Pros for keeping Strome

Chemistry with Panarin
Lack of center depth in prospect pool
Versatility to play multiple positions
Plays both PP and PK competently
Leadership

Cons for keeping Strome

Limited cap space
Quinn pp1 insistence
Questionable forechecking and d zone effort at even strength
Potentially blocks Chytil from top 6
Unclear on playoff performance

I really wish we had gotten to see him in the playoffs this season. That would have eased my mind a lot about a long term extension if he had performed well. But with the overwhelming depth we have at wing, I'm comfortable going to battle with Zibby, Strome, Chytil down the middle for the next 3-4 seasons.

 

[kovazub94]

Personally I liked glimpses of what Gauthier was showing. But let’s be honest he was in a wide open competition vs Blackwell and PDG for a permanent spot and didn’t grab it the way Blackwell did.

At the same time I will have absolutely no qualms which one of Blackwell, Gauthier, Howden or PDG gets protection or gets picked by Seattle. I was a lot more invested in Fast and Lindberg decision vs this group.

 

[Bruner4329]

We would only be so lucky if the team A exposes Howden and B he gets chosen

This is called addition by subtraction. Honestly if Howden is on this team next season you really have to wonder what is going on.

 

[bleedblue94]

I was actually thinking that earlier when I was posting about the mock draft. They could protect him if they wanted to though, so I'm not sure it's worth playing that game unless they firmly believe that Seattle will take Blackwell if they leave him exposed. Blackwell has been a good Fast replacement for us, and at a much cheaper price (relatively speaking).

I dont think the roster we have today is the complete roster we are working our protection list off of...

 

[GAGLine]

I dont think the roster we have today is the complete roster we are working our protection list off of...

It may not be, but I have no idea what Gorton is thinking or what sort of moves we might make prior to submitting our list for the expansion draft. It's possible that Hajek isn't protected and we bring in a dman to fill that spot. It's possible that none of Blackwell, Gauthier or Howden are protected and we bring in a player to fill that spot. It's possible we do nothing until after the draft. I'm sure Gorton is looking for opportunities to improve the value of those protection slots, but I'm not sure there's a deal out there to be made.

 

[kovazub94]

Strome is a good complimentary piece or an excellent stop gap piece, however you want to view it. If he can be extended for let's say $6 for 3 years, I would take it. That will also get him to UFA status at 30, after another 4 years of playing with Panarin on an up and coming team.

What I do not see happening is both him and Mika here together. I think that as soon as next year, the "sink or swim" part with Chytil has arrived. He is trending to that min-40ish points while primarily playing on the third line, with no PP time and had a year with a fairly serious injury and Covid on top if it all. He looks to be the part of a 2C. If he is in the fold, then I think that Gorton & JD come back with one of Strome or ZBad.

Right now, my gut feeling is that they make some sort of a deal with Mika (not $10m for 8 years) and try to move Strome. But from a cost perspective, Strome and Chytil would allow for more cap space. Strome can continue to play with Panarin easily and that takes care of what the opposition would look at as the top line.

The fact that Zibanejad is on 70+ point pace in virtually 1.5 months after being Covid-recovery horrendous for 2 months speaks volumes to the type of talent he is. He’s also an all situation 1C so really the issue is the price and I’m afraid it will be prohibitive (anything over $8.5 give or take).

I’m also higher (and have been for years now) on Chytil than most here. IMO He’s 1C in a couple of years and the Rangers must lock him up for 6- or more years this summer.

 

[Rongomania]

Next year will reveal all that is secret to us now

Kakko/Krav/Chytil/Laf/Miller/Whatever the f*ck Adam Fox is becoming/Lundkvist...

Breakout candidates literally pouring out of this teams ears.

 

[kovazub94]

Pros for keeping Strome

Chemistry with Panarin
Lack of center depth in prospect pool
Versatility to play multiple positions
Plays both PP and PK competently
Leadership

Cons for keeping Strome

Limited cap space
Quinn pp1 insistence
Questionable forechecking and d zone effort at even strength
Potentially blocks Chytil from top 6
Unclear on playoff performance

I really wish we had gotten to see him in the playoffs this season. That would have eased my mind a lot about a long term extension if he had performed well. But with the overwhelming depth we have at wing, I'm comfortable going to battle with Zibby, Strome, Chytil down the middle for the next 3-4 seasons.

I don’t think you even putting the decision in the right format. It’s not whether the Rangers will be able to keep Strome with Zibanejad and Chytil. It’s more like Strome at $6.5m vs Zibanejad at $9+ and losing someone else to adjust for the AAV cap impact. Plus the fact that moving Zibanejad will bring back a bigger return than Strome.

 

[pld459666]

Yeah maybe, but at the same time, I don't know if it really is a legit excuse.

First of all, absolutely, I think sometimes that is a large misconception that it is "easy" to play physical, to make hits etc. That its something someone either opts to do or not to do. That is of course not the case, its a skill. And often, the bigger you are -- the harder you will have catching players and landing hits. But there are many more small things someone like Gauthier can do. Like just making his presence felt in front of the net. He should hit more and harder. The speed he is moving around at, its not as if he never will get a shot at landing a heavy hit.

Ultimately its of course up to him, but if he doesn't start to play more physical, I don't think he stands a shot at winning and keeping a position in the line-up. And the same actually applies to Brett Howden. These guys can't become Kirk Maltby II over night. But I do think they can improve their chances of winning spots on the team and helping the team by simply becoming harder to play against.

I think we are on the track, but separate rails.

Being more physical in front of the net is a mindset that you either have or don't.

Its a battle mindset that one must have and enjoy to voluntarily venture to those areas of the ice that require sustained physical confrontation (not fighting per se)

One would think that as big and strong as he is, it would have been encouraged with him as a youngster, but it does not appear to have been the case

 

[True Blue]

I don’t think you even putting the decision in the right format. It’s not whether the Rangers will be able to keep Strome with Zibanejad and Chytil. It’s more like Strome at $6.5m vs Zibanejad at $9+ and losing someone else to adjust for the AAV cap impact. Plus the fact that moving Zibanejad will bring back a bigger return than Strome.

That's it. We know that they are a better team with Zibanejad and Chytil as opposed to Strome and Chytil The question then really boils down to does the cap saving with Strome staying as opposed to Zibanejad outweigh the hit to the roster by loosing a legit 1C.

 

[CLW]

With Zib we saw that if he is not in peak physical condition his game suffers. A long term contract may be a bit bothersome after say year 3/4.

If Chytil is about to break out I don't see how the team can invest in all three of Zib/Strome/Chytil. Strome is the odd man out for me, the team needs a very strong two way center in their top three, the team will have crazy firepower in any case. The defensive dimension is still lacking.

 

[Edge]

Im not sold on Gauthier really, i think there's a reason he got moved from Carolina after only playing 5 games for the big club. He's fast, big(doesn't really use it), doesn't pk, isn't good enough to pp, isn't defensively responsible for a bottom six role, isn't good enough offensively for a top 6 role. He's basically Boo Nieves without the pk ability. I said it early in the year that he needed to carve a niche for himself and abandon his hope of being a goal scorer in the nhl because he just isn't good enough. As much as people slack on Howden and Rooney they both had the brains to adapt to fill holes on the pk to keep themselves in the lineup. Julien needs to watch Kakko and how he plays and model his game after that defensively.

I think it's okay not to be sold on a young player, but I do think when young players have certain attributes it is in everyone's best interest to fully explore them and see what you've got.

In the end, maybe you have nothing.

But I also think Gauthier is a pretty unique combination that requires more time, patience and development before making a judgement call. In my mind, he isn't competing for the same spot as Kakko, or Buch, or even Kravtsov. He's a guy you take a look at in a bottom six role.

At the end of the day, I don't find myself tired of seeing aforementioned three forwards. I get somewhat tired of rolling out there with not one, not two, sometimes not even three, but upwards of four forwards who really have little to no future here.

Frankly that's probably my biggest ongoing disagreement with DQ. I don't mind using some of those guys to plug holes. It's when we start to see all or most of them in the lineup, and the usage starts to occur on the regular.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

With Zib we saw that if he is not in peak physical condition his game suffers. A long term contract may be a bit bothersome after say year 3/4.

If Chytil is about to break out I don't see how the team can invest in all three of Zib/Strome/Chytil. Strome is the odd man out for me, the team needs a very strong two way center in their top three, the team will have crazy firepower in any case. The defensive dimension is still lacking.

I agree 100%, even if it comes at the expense of some offense, we'll have other guys who can hopefully step up and make up the difference.

 

[GAGLine]

I think it's okay not to be sold on a young player, but I do think when young players have certain attributes it is in everyone's best interest to fully explore them and see what you've got.

In the end, maybe you have nothing.

But I also think Gauthier is a pretty unique combination that requires more time, patience and development before making a judgement call. In my mind, he isn't competing for the same spot as Kakko, or Buch, or even Kravtsov. He's a guy you take a look at in a bottom six role.

At the end of the day, I don't find myself tired of seeing aforementioned three forwards. I get somewhat tired of rolling out there with not one, not two, sometimes not even three, but upwards of four forwards who really have little to no future here.

Frankly that's probably my biggest ongoing disagreement with DQ. I don't mind using some of those guys to plug holes. It's when we start to see all or most of them in the lineup, and the usage starts to occur on the regular.

It could be that there's more going on there than is apparent. He hasn't played since April 3rd. We've played 12 games since then. It's hard to imagine that he would go that long without playing if he was simply being rotated with other players. In the 27 games he has played, he has the lowest average ice time on the team, other than Reunanen, who only played 1 game.

He doesn't seem to be injured. Maybe he asked for a trade and was held out prior to the deadline because of it? Maybe they are keeping him out to ensure that he is healthy so he can be traded in the offseason? Maybe he's part of a deal Gorton has the works? I really have no idea. It could be that Quinn just doesn't trust him and Gauthier isn't learning the things he needs to learn.

It would be nice if one of our beat writers could ask about him.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

blackwell and pdg aren't good at any of these things and outside of blackwell shooting 30% over a month he doesn't contribute much of anything.

gauthier had his best stretch right before he was banished.

As I've said before, I'm not going to get on Quinn for going with Howden on the fourth line as long as they remain in the hunt for a PO spot. It makes sense that he'd take the guy who PKs and can play center/take faceoffs over a project who's still a WIP to play on the fourth line under such a circumstance. And despite having been a fan of Gauthier's potential from the beginning, by no means am I predicting he's a lock to realize the full upside of that potential here, or anywhere else in the NHL for that matter.

But the responses after you brought him up completely ignoring/forgetting/missing the bolded blow my mind. But for a couple of blips like the three high-stickings game (wherein he also scored a goal, let's not forget) he was showing clear and steady progression.

 

[Edge]

It could be that there's more going on there than is apparent. He hasn't played since April 3rd. We've played 12 games since then. It's hard to imagine that he would go that long without playing if he was simply being rotated with other players. In the 27 games he has played, he has the lowest average ice time on the team, other than Reunanen, who only played 1 game.

He doesn't seem to be injured. Maybe he asked for a trade and was held out prior to the deadline because of it? Maybe they are keeping him out to ensure that he is healthy so he can be traded in the offseason? Maybe he's part of a deal Gorton has the works? I really have no idea. It could be that Quinn just doesn't trust him and Gauthier isn't learning the things he needs to learn.

It would be nice if one of our beat writers could ask about him.

It certainly could be. Admittedly, seeing Blackwell get minutes over Kakko, Kravtsov, Lafreniere and Chytil tends to make believe it's less a Gauthier thing and more a comfort thing for DQ, but it all ties into the same disagreement I have there.

I think we can be doing a better job there. I think we should be doing a better job there.

 

[Fitzy]

It would be nice if one of our beat writers could ask about him.

They did, and Quinn went on a bit about how he was handling it professionally, and that with how other guys have been playing it isn't the right time to substitute any of the current forwards on the roster.

Though if I was a betting man I'd say he's currently the #14 forward option behind PDG, which is unfortunate.

 

[JohnC]

The front office has a tricky off-season coming up.

Likely big decisions to make RE Zib/Strome/Buch.

Hopefully they look into upgrading the last expansion slots for both forward and defense without hurting the future cap situation.

To protect any of Goat/Rooney/Blackwell/DiGi/Hajek would be tragic.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

The fact that Zibanejad is on 70+ point pace in virtually 1.5 months after being Covid-recovery horrendous for 2 months speaks volumes to the type of talent he is. He’s also an all situation 1C so really the issue is the price and I’m afraid it will be prohibitive (anything over $8.5 give or take).

I’m also higher (and have been for years now) on Chytil than most here. IMO He’s 1C in a couple of years and the Rangers must lock him up for 6- or more years this summer.

Yeah. While I personally would not be adverse to moving all three of Buch/Strome/Mika and loading up on young centers/center prospects, I have a feeling a number of conditions (most notably what's available in the market as a return) will lead the team to accepting the risk and re-signing Mika, regardless of what happens with the other two. (My guess is that both of them are gone by next TDL.) And when that happens, there might be some discount, but at the end of the day, it'll still be more than I want to pay for a longer term than I want to lock in.

When that happens, my head will be uncomfortable, but my heart will be glad.

 

[True Blue]

This is called addition by subtraction. Honestly if Howden is on this team next season you really have to wonder what is going on.

This much hostility to someone that plays less than 10 minutes of ES time on the 4th line? Oh my.