Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXI - We are in The End Game now.

[JimmyG89]

I'm going back into the Buchnevich Summer Fitness Thread until 5pm tomorrow.

Can we officially name that thread "Lost 20 lbs, best shape of my life" fitness thread.

 

[Tawnos]

"Two years from now" isn't really a thing anymore with how expensive they've made this team, unless they pull the trigger on Kreider.

Ideally, we get a kick at the can with Kakko and Kravtsov on ELC's and Zibanejad on the ridiculous contact he's on. Staal actively works against that.

We aren't getting the kick at that can this year with or without Staal. Next year? Highly unlikely. The year after? Maybe... but guess what? Staal won't be here then anyway.

And this doesn't even get into the fact that they'd be better off trying to convince him to LTIRetire next year. Like anyone else with permanent physical damage, he can do that whenever he decides to stop playing.

 

[Tawnos]

I agree, but frankly, I don't even get that aspect of it.

What is he teaching our young players? How to run from contact? How to quit on plays? How to make absolutely awful line changes?

Staal has never really been a guy associated with "doing things the right way." He's never been touted as a vocal leader.

Even if we're doing the whole locker room thing here, he's not exactly Tanner Glass in that department.

What?!? He's been touted as that guy since before he was even drafted.

 

[Raspewtin]

TFW you can't wait to make all the same points you made in the same debate yesterday.

yesterday it was why Staal is the best candidate, today it's why Shatt is the worst

 

[GAGLine]

Do either Smith or Shatt save us enough space either? We'd have to make an extra move regardless of who gets bought out.

Shatty should if ADA and Lemieux get their QOs as Brooks suggested.

 

[SA16]

I agree, but frankly, I don't even get that aspect of it.

What is he teaching our young players? How to run from contact? How to quit on plays? How to make absolutely awful line changes?

Staal has never really been a guy associated with "doing things the right way." He's never been touted as a vocal leader.

Even if we're doing the whole locker room thing here, he's not exactly Tanner Glass in that department.

His apparent leadership is the result of being an older veteran player who was drafted by the organization who fought through multiple severe injuries to come back. I've asked before - if he's such a tremendous leader and he's been in the organization for 12 years why was he never named captain? Callahan/McDonagh both got the C over him despite having similar to less seniority. Now the talk around here is more Zibanejad. They've went only alternates the last couple of years instead of naming him the Captain also.

 

[Machinehead]

What?!? He's been touted as that guy since before he was even drafted.

Well that didn't translate. The guy is softer than angel's wings.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I've laid it out earlier in this thread but buying out Staal AND Smith leads to less than $1m in additional dead cap space in years 3 and 4. That jettisons both Smith and Staal in lieu of just Shattenkirk. That makes a lot more sense as neither of those guys hold much value or have shown the ability to rebuild their values

Also from an asset management standpoint:

Smith isn't playing. He will be buried. Ok let's say somehow he comes back to life, there are injuries and he cracks the lineup. His reputation still sucks. Bear with me.

Staal is done. There is no one trading for him with that contract, even if he has a GREAT year. Ok MAYBE you'll get a late round pick from a desperate idiot GM, based on Staal's reputation and family name. But doubtful. And you will certainly have to take money back or retain in doing so.

So what I'm saying here is beyond the positive cap ramifications that a Staal/Smith buyout package would provide, you are left with Shattenkirk, who has a much better chance of "returning to form".

If he has a decent season you can A. Keep him, or B. Shop him with greater success since he only has 1 year remaining, he's a RHD, especially to those desperate idiot GMs. Otherwise you will have a 34 y/o Staal with a 5.7 year left.

It's a hard decision but honestly if you could make the numbers work i'd keep Shatty and give him a shot to redeem. Staal provides very little to this team both short and long term, other than his attractive buy out details post year 1.

 

[Machinehead]

Ok, Staal comes off in two years. So does Shattenkirk.

Other people know about this stuff better than I do, but it seems to me that buying out Staal and waiting out Shattenkirk would be less expensive.

 

[Inferno]

Ok, Staal comes off in two years. So does Shattenkirk.

Other people know about this stuff better than I do, but it seems to me that buying out Staal and waiting out Shattenkirk would be less expensive.

Yeah the difference in the 2 is shattenkirks buyout solves all their cap issues in 1 fell swoop. It's just dumb though

 

[NYRFAN218]

Ok, Staal comes off in two years. So does Shattenkirk.

Other people know about this stuff better than I do, but it seems to me that buying out Staal and waiting out Shattenkirk would be less expensive.

The way the buyouts calculate, Shattenkirk saves us just over $5 million this year while Staal only saves $2.8. They’d need another corresponding move to get under with Staal while Shattenkirk alone will get it done (though I’ve mentioned before that they may need another smaller move such as Beleskey as well to make managing the roster and bonuses during the season easier).

Over the course of the buyout Shattenkirk is more than Staal but they need to find a way to get under right now and the only move that gets that done in one swoop is Shattenkirk. Not saying I agree, that’s just how the numbers shape up.

 

[Machinehead]

Yeah the difference in the 2 is shattenkirks buyout solves all their cap issues in 1 fell swoop. It's just dumb though

If they're keeping Staal, they're ok with being bad two more years.

If they're ok with being bad two more years, just trade Kreider.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I don't think he's the obvious candidate. Staal has his shortcomings, no doubt, but Shatty has absolutely no value to this team. He is a PP specialist who won't see time on the PP.

Beyond that, Staal doesn't save us nearly enough cap space, so what other moves are we making?

How is he a PP specialist? He still produced at a top-pairing rate at 5v5, had the best CF and xG% on the Rangers and was top-tier in the league. All the while having extremely low on-ice SH% at both 5v5 and PP. Sure he didn't get the toughest usage but it's not true that he's a specialist.

 

[Tawnos]

Ok, Staal comes off in two years. So does Shattenkirk.

Other people know about this stuff better than I do, but it seems to me that buying out Staal and waiting out Shattenkirk would be less expensive.

They'd cost about the same overall. You would get less savings from Staal this year and more savings from Staal next year. Then for 2 years after that you've got basically even cap hits... Shattenkirk's being a few hundred thousand higher.

But the cap problem is immediate.

If they're keeping Staal, they're ok with being bad two more years.

If they're ok with being bad two more years, just trade Kreider.

I think they'd be perfectly fine trading Kreider, but would prefer to do it at the deadline so he can also be around the kids for the bulk of this year.

 

[NYRFAN218]

This is just me openly speculating about things but I wonder what the offers for Kreider would be, if any, at the moment. This is obviously the point of the year where offers would be lowest given teams are capped out and have their rosters pretty much set but is it worth taking a lesser offer now than at the deadline to preserve a Shattenkirk buyout? The obvious con is the lesser return but if you’re that big of a believer in Shattenkirk; he can be a very tradeable asset if he has a nice bounce back season. 1 year left with essentially only $2 million in actual salary once his bonus is paid out. It’s a risk but maybe you recoup what you lost by dealing Kreider early and don’t have to deal with a substantial dead cap hit next year and the smaller ones the year beyond.

 

[Ola]

One thing is sure, either a buy-out is not on the table (highly unlikely from my POV, but who knows) or Gorton is holding out for something.

Of course a buy-out is never your first option, but in this case he must have a second option that he still has hopes on materializing. There are no gain in waiting until the last second hoping some life line will fall down from the sky. There must be some talks going on.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

One thing is sure, either a buy-out is not on the table (highly unlikely from my POV, but who knows) or Gorton is holding out for something.

Of course a buy-out is never your first option, but in this case he must have a second option that he still has hopes on materializing. There are no gain in waiting until the last second hoping some life line will fall down from the sky. There must be some talks going on.

Could be talks going on, could be hopes that talks will go on. No harm in waiting right if Shatty is who they decided to buy out?

Most likely outcome is Shatty gets bought out tomorrow. Actually, does he have to? Is a Kreider / Buch trade alone enough? Or would it have to be one of the two + Names traded too or + Shatty buyout?

 

[Tawnos]

One thing is sure, either a buy-out is not on the table (highly unlikely from my POV, but who knows) or Gorton is holding out for something.

Of course a buy-out is never your first option, but in this case he must have a second option that he still has hopes on materializing. There are no gain in waiting until the last second hoping some life line will fall down from the sky. There must be some talks going on.

I'm sure he's trying to leverage his options into better deals. Basically saying that he has other ways to get under the cap besides trading someone, and he'll exercise those options if he has to... so up your deal now or miss out on the player you want, because if he does have to buy someone out then he's not making a trade. And there's no harm in letting that play out until the end.

 

[bl02]

The way the buyouts calculate, Shattenkirk saves us just over $5 million this year while Staal only saves $2.8. They’d need another corresponding move to get under with Staal while Shattenkirk alone will get it done (though I’ve mentioned before that they may need another smaller move such as Beleskey as well to make managing the roster and bonuses during the season easier).

Over the course of the buyout Shattenkirk is more than Staal but they need to find a way to get under right now and the only move that gets that done in one swoop is Shattenkirk. Not saying I agree, that’s just how the numbers shape up.

Yep and only if it were easy to move Names this wouldn't be as difficult as it is shaping up to be. Come JG Names with a little money retained if necessary and buy out Staal if we Shatty is more expensive to buy out. I think that should be able to get it done? No?

 

[egelband]

Maybe this has been mentioned already before, but my service sucks here in Poland and there’s no wifi, so I don’t have the patience to go back and check. Why don’t we just buy out Namestnikov? Since he’s under 27 (I think that’s the cutoff), we would only have to pay for 1/3 of his contract, right? Then I wonder if we could trade a 50% retained Shattenkirk plus a Howden/Hajek/Barron for something.

Was thinking this too. Why not buy out deals with one year left. Much less down-the-road burden.

 

[bl02]

I know if we got full or near full value for CK (plus saving cap money) it would be in the teams best interest to deal but part of me would love to see him on the team thie year playing with the likes of Panarin, Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil etc

 

[Tawnos]

Was thinking this too. Why not buy out deals with one year left. Much less down-the-road burden.

You'd still have to make a second move and Names I believe is the only buyout candidate with one year left. It could happen, in which case the other buyout will probably be Smith.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

If they're keeping Staal, they're ok with being bad two more years.

If they're ok with being bad two more years, just trade Kreider.

The fact that they haven't is not proof that they haven't been trying.

 

[Zibanejbread]

Was thinking this too. Why not buy out deals with one year left. Much less down-the-road burden.

Kreider and Names are the only one-year deals left that we could buyout. Doing that to CK20 would be a terrible idea and I think JG believes Names will have value with retention at the TDL (if not sooner).

 

[bl02]

Was thinking this too. Why not buy out deals with one year left. Much less down-the-road burden.

Maybe I am overvaluing our young players but would hate to let go of a Howden/Hajek/Barron just to get rid of Shatty. I know we have a lot of Good young LHD but giving up Hajek so soon could be a mistake. Howden is a center we may need now and for the future and from what I hear about Barron from some posters who follow him he could be a real dark horse prospect (big centerman)