Speculation: Roster Building Thread LVIII: At part 58, I am out of titles.

[Irishguy42]

and arguably the greatest goalie of all time.

Mmmmmmmmm....Top 3/5 of all time, yes. GOAT, no.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

He is the greatest Ranger, and arguably the greatest goalie of all time.

Leetch is the greatest Ranger of all time.

Hasek is the greatest Goalie of all time.

Other than that, I do agree with you.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Mmmmmmmmm....Top 3/5 of all time, yes. GOAT, no.

Top 3/5? On what grounds? His singular Vezina?

 

[EdJovanovski]

Arguably the greatest goalie of all time?

No. There is no argument for that.

There are definitely arguments to be made for him lol
How many goalies are better? I’m young but when I watch highlights of old hockey the goalies look terrible and I’d think the greatest of this generation is the greatest of all time. Who’s better; Hasek? Fatso? Roy?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

There are definitely arguments to be made for him lol
How many goalies are better? I’m young but when I watch highlights of old hockey the goalies look terrible and I’d think the greatest of this generation is the greatest of all time. Who’s better; Hasek? Fatso? Roy?

Uh, yah, those three are way better than Lundqvist. So are Dryden, Sawchuk, Plante, among others.

 

[Irishguy42]

There are definitely arguments to be made for him lol
How many goalies are better? I’m young but when I watch highlights of old hockey the goalies look terrible and I’d think the greatest of this generation is the greatest of all time. Who’s better; Hasek? Fatso? Roy?

Hasek and Roy are, yes. Brodeur, no.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

There are definitely arguments to be made for him lol
How many goalies are better? I’m young but when I watch highlights of old hockey the goalies look terrible and I’d think the greatest of this generation is the greatest of all time. Who’s better; Hasek? Fatso? Roy?

Plante, Hall and Dryden too.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Hasek and Roy are, yes. Brodeur, no.

Hate the fatso, but Brodeur has easily had the better career. Pains me to say this considering Hank's my all time favorite player.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Lundqvist has 100x more value to this organization than he brings back in a trade, even with 50% retained. He is the greatest Ranger, and arguably the greatest goalie of all time. Having these two very young goalies in Shestyorkin & Georgiev make me think it’s MORE important to keep Hank, I couldn’t imagine a better mentor than him. Plus it’ll be beautiful to see Captain Mika refuse to lift the cup and make Hank lift it first in 2021

Greatest goalie in Rangers’ history? Or league history? There’s no way he’s the best in league history.

Edit: nvm you replied to others already

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Ya I’m sorry but Lundqvist isn’t better than Brodeur You’d have to be extremely biased to believe that. I f***ing hate Brodeur, but what argument can you really make in Hank’s favor? Brodeur has a massive edge in hardware.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Hate the fatso, but Brodeur has easily had the better career. Pains me to say this considering Hank's my all time favorite player.

Fatso was playing behind the team that invented the trap, Lundqvist dragged mediocre teams kicking & screaming on deep playoff runs. Every metric on high danger scoring chances & such put him in a class of his own

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Let’s take a basic goalie stat here: GSAA. Goals saved above average.

Hank’s career high: ~30, then ~28.

Brodeur’s two best GSAA seasons are ~35.

 

[NYR Viper]

There’s nothing that stops the team from carrying 3 goalies at certain times of the season if needed except the cap. If, in January the team decides it wants to give Hank a rest for a week they can call up Shestyorkin and split starts with Georgiev to give him a look. Again, the main thing here is going to be getting both guys enough games to build up what their used to. Shestyorkin has been splitting starts in the KHL so if the hope is that he will eventually be the starter he needs to build himself up to 55-60 games at a minimum.

 

[Fitzy]

There are definitely arguments to be made for him lol
How many goalies are better? I’m young but when I watch highlights of old hockey the goalies look terrible and I’d think the greatest of this generation is the greatest of all time. Who’s better; Hasek? Fatso? Roy?

Hasek. Easily.

I know Henrik's performance is about consistent results for a 10-12 year period. That doesn't change the fact that he has only one Vezina.

I'd put Hank in the top 15- which is an amazing career. That puts him with guys like Broda, Hainsworth, and Esposito.

 

[Rongomania]

Let’s take a basic goalie stat here: GSAA. Goals saved above average.

Hank’s career high: ~30, then ~28.

Brodeur’s two best GSAA seasons are ~35.

You really can't play the comparison game, unless you factor in quality of team surrounding these goalies, Hank is easily in the conversation for best ever.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Fatso was playing behind the team that invented the trap, Lundqvist dragged mediocre teams kicking & screaming on deep playoff runs. Every metric on high danger scoring chances & such put him in a class of his own

Not everything is based off of Metrics. At the end of the day, Brodeur holds the NHL records in wins (691), shutouts (125), games played (1,266). He also has 4 Vezina trophies and 3 cups.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

You really can't play the comparison game.

But when you factor in quality of team surrounding these goalies, Hank is easily in the conversation for best ever.

People are underrating our rosters with Lundqvist so they can overrate him.

Those teams are not nearly as devoid of talent as people want them to be.

The 2012 and 2014/2015 teams are easily playoff teams with an average goalie, and more talented than any of the Sabres teams with Hasek.

There is absolutely no argument for any of big three over Hank, especially Hasek. The “argument” is over once you say 6 Vezinas and two Harts.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Not everything is based off of Metrics. At the end of the day, Brodeur holds the NHL records in wins (691), shutouts (125), games played (1,266). He also has 4 Vezina trophies and 3 cups.

Most of those are team stats or accomplishments.

He is the most overrated player of all time. Throw him on a different team and he may not even be in the hall.

 

[RGY]

How can you talk about “all” the hardware Brodeur won when he has 5 Jennings trophies playing in the New Jersey Devils system vs Hank who has had a shit show in front of him the majority of his career. Maybe 1-2 seasons in his entire career where it was good.

I think the Bias is working against him the other way...

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Most of those are team stats or accomplishments.

He is the most overrated player of all time. Throw him on a different team and he may not even be in the hall.

Having watched him throughout his career, I couldn't disagree more. Throw him on a different team and he'd still be one of the greatest goalies in NHL history. Dislike him as a person. He was/is a piece of ****. But all personal things aside, he was a tremendous goalie.

 

[I Eat Crow]

There’s nothing that stops the team from carrying 3 goalies at certain times of the season if needed except the cap. If, in January the team decides it wants to give Hank a rest for a week they can call up Shestyorkin and split starts with Georgiev to give him a look. Again, the main thing here is going to be getting both guys enough games to build up what their used to. Shestyorkin has been splitting starts in the KHL so if the hope is that he will eventually be the starter he needs to build himself up to 55-60 games at a minimum.

If the team is otherwise healthy, I've been suggesting this.

If it were up to me, this would be the game breakdown:

Lundqvist: 30-35
Georgiev: 20-25
Shestyorkin: 15-20

 

[Fitzy]

Brodeur isn't Chris Osgood. This is ridiculous.

Its like reading NJD fans say Hank was only good because of "His padz!"

 

[Savant]

Brodeur had much better talent in front of him and a had the trap.

Someone please tell me how many Hall of Famers in their prime played in front of Lundqvist, then compare with the Devils with Brodeur

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Brodeur had much better talent in front of him and a had the trap.

Someone please tell me how many Hall of Famers in their prime played in front of Lundqvist, then compare with the Devils with Brodeur

So you're saying Henrik was better than Brodeur?

 

[RGY]

Having watched him throughout his career, I couldn't disagree more. Throw him on a different team and he'd still be one of the greatest goalies in NHL history. Dislike him as a person. He was/is a piece of ****. But all personal things aside, he was a tremendous goalie.

I disagree. He had his shortcomings in his game. I think Brodeur was a very, very talented goaltender, however, you put him in another system for his career and all of those Jennings trophies disappear.

His career GAA and SV% are right in the realm of where Hank is currently at.

And I also think the Vezina trophy is such a preferential bias trophy that is decided on judgement and could easily be argued for the other top 3 candidates every year.

You could argue that Brodeur was not the most valuable goalie those years. Just like the Jennings, look at the teams in front of him. You can bring up SV% and other stats, but dig deeper and look at how many dangerous scoring chances did he have to deal with? Where were all the shots coming from? Perimeter?

This is one of those things where you need the Advanced Stats to make a true analysis of who the best goalie(s) of all time are/is.