Speculation: Roster Building Thread LVI: Artemi, where art thou? In NY.

[Kupo]

Yup, it saved the franchise.

Something tells me Gorton would run this franchise differently than Slats if there was no cap either... And in a better way.

With no cap, you’re continuously paying a premium for a teams battered, beaten and abused sloppy seconds. And you’re doing so on the downside of their careers.

Paying more for less. Genius strategy.

Some posters here are just angry that there is a cap and and we can’t retain certain players forever, regardless of the cost or how much we’ll pay them to see their regression over time.

Chris ****ing Kreider just happens to be that magical and irreplaceable unicorn. The same people whining about CK’s fate were practically crying like pansies the day Callahan was traded.

 

[Mikos87]

The CBA

Article 50.5 (b)(i)

Fantastic thanks. What I've been missing is the projected benefits figure.

I've got HRR for every team, league, and revenue performance for the last 12 years. It would be great to know how much the projected benefits are. Essentially they are fully loaded costs of the player by the team but that aggregate figure is substantial.

Any idea what the projected benefits figure was the last few years?

 

[East Coast Bias]

Which they can because of the players in that genre come from different values.

They would rather join forces with 2 of their buddies with a team that has the cap space regardless of what podunk city it is for a 2 to 4 year stint than play in marquee cities and develop a family identity in a secure environment.

One one hand I get it. On the other, it ain't me. NHL players "mostly" covet a "home" in one city and security and a stable environment for their family no matter the outcome of their career.

NBA players "mostly" chase the money and championships...provided it's teamed up wit de' boi's.

This is so hilariously stupid. Every bit of it.

hockey player family man warrior!

 

[kovazub94]

The only thing that should adjust is tax, both federal and state should be allowed to adjust the salary cap per team.

The idea of having your home grown players not count against the cap make no sense. It would just revert back to big market teams paying their home grown all stars insane amounts of money and poaching other teams players who can’t afford similar contracts.

Also, what’s defined as home grown? Is Fox? What about Hajek? Must the player be drafted by that team or just play his first game for that team? What would happen is more Fox situations where young players decide not to sign only to become free agents and pick large market teams so that they can make more money than otherwise available.

This team has made more than a couple of poor decisions and they are paying for them. That’s the way it should work. Girardi, Staal, Smith and Shattenkirk. An aging Hank who is no longer that perennial all star player. These things will need to be dealt with either via a fortuitous trade, buyout or just time.

Also, let’s not act like the team only signed Panarin. They also acquired a RD in Trouba who they knew wanted a good amount of money long term. Those two together are going to be ~$19m.

This system has been in place for a while, the team knew the rules of the game and made their decisions. Just because it has turned out poorly doesn’t mean they can just request the rules to be changed.

Completely agree with the sentiment but I wouldn’t adjust for tax because where would you stop? For example financial opportunities that big market teams could provide that small markets can’t?

One thing that could be discussed is whether the 8th year is enough of the advantage or there could be more? Fully exempt a player’s salary would be excessive but maybe something like $1m off the salary for cap purposes could do the trick?

 

[Hellion]

So I guess things are looking good

 

[Roo Returns]

Something tells me Gorton would run this franchise differently than Slats if there was no cap either... And in a better way.

With no cap, you’re continuously paying a premium for a teams battered, beaten and abused sloppy seconds. And you’re doing so on the downside of their careers.

Paying more for less. Genius strategy.

Some posters here are just angry that there is a cap and and we can’t retain certain players forever, regardless of the cost or how much we’ll pay them to see their regression over time.

Chris ****ing Kreider just happens to be that magical and irreplaceable unicorn. The same people whining about CK’s fate were practically crying like pansies the day Callahan was traded.

Gorton would run the team different than Sather and better. He came into the picture after 2006 though and didn't really start influencing decisions until around 2010-2011.

 

[bobbop]

The solution for the NHL is to impose a soft cap with luxury tax thresholds similar to the MLB. It'll help offset the advantage that teams in states without income tax have other other teams that are in states that tax heavily.

As for soccer, the MLS and USL should combine and have a relegation and promotion system like every other ****ing country has for the sport, but that's a discussion for another day.

The hard cap is working well for the league. I doubt if you have many owners interested in changing the rules.

 

[JC704]

Something tells me Gorton would run this franchise differently than Slats if there was no cap either... And in a better way.

With no cap, you’re continuously paying a premium for a teams battered, beaten and abused sloppy seconds. And you’re doing so on the downside of their careers.

Paying more for less. Genius strategy.

Some posters here are just angry that there is a cap and and we can’t retain certain players forever, regardless of the cost or how much we’ll pay them to see their regression over time.

Chris ****ing Kreider just happens to be that magical and irreplaceable unicorn. The same people whining about CK’s fate were practically crying like pansies the day Callahan was traded.

Kreider isn’t a “unicorn.” Every player is expendable. Despite his inconsistencies, he still scored 28 goals last season on a bad team. Which is why, me included, some of us want to see what he does with this roster this season with his $4.6 million cap hit.

I’ve already made this point in multiple threads. If Marc Staal AND Brendan Smith are here on opening night and Kreider isn’t, specifically for cap reasons, and they needed to “dump him” to get under for whatever the return is, it’s dumb. He makes $4.6 million in his final season. If they trade a top-six forward before unloading the dead weight, via buy out or, in Smith’s case, attaching a draft pick/prospect in a trade, they are essentially making this season a much more uphill battle.

They absolutely can make the playoffs as constructed this season. Trading Kreider is way different than trading Hayes/Zucc. Last year’s team was never going anywhere. This year, we are going to get a significant look at just how much further we came along in regard to reaching the Cup goal. If the Rangers don’t take advantage of playing guys like Zibanejad/Kreider with the cap hits they have and trying to take step forwards with the kids on ELCs, they’re going to be the Winnipeg Jets AKA where everything comes together for that one fruitful season, and that’s that. Then... everybody needs to get paid, and when you accumulate so many assets, they all can’t get paid.

At this point, moving Kreider for a 2nd and a prospect or a first doesn’t move the needle for me, at all. It won’t move the needle for the team next season either. Kreider is that rare case where he is way too talented not to see what he can do with a vastly improved roster. BTW, he is absolutely NOT Ryan Callahan. Two entirely different players. People cried about Callahan because he was the “captain” and felt like that was bad juju. There is no guarantee Kreider ages well.... but there is also no guarantee everybody is 100% wrong on that and he remains consistent through his early 30s. Every player is different. If he gets traded and churns out 4/5 straight 60-point seasons while possibly playing for a contender, this forum won’t stop crying about it.

Like everything, it’s a calculated risk. They should retain him until the trade deadline. If they’re in the midst of a postseason return, keep him aboard.

 

[Barnaby]

Something tells me Gorton would run this franchise differently than Slats if there was no cap either... And in a better way.

With no cap, you’re continuously paying a premium for a teams battered, beaten and abused sloppy seconds. And you’re doing so on the downside of their careers.

Paying more for less. Genius strategy.

Some posters here are just angry that there is a cap and and we can’t retain certain players forever, regardless of the cost or how much we’ll pay them to see their regression over time.

Chris ****ing Kreider just happens to be that magical and irreplaceable unicorn. The same people whining about CK’s fate were practically crying like pansies the day Callahan was traded.

I think Gorton would be better but by how much, what about President Sather or Owner Dolan? Would they have been less afraid of Stepans contract, kept him, signed two guys, then rinse repeated? More years of no or mid draft picks? More bad contracts and no youth? Maybe now we’d have Stepan, Callahan, Kreider, all our old D... etc etc

 

[Rangers ftw]

Is this the year when we will have a captain again and if so, who?

 

[Barnaby]

I could get behind some type of franchise tag where a team can franchise based on say the average of 3 highest paid players at that position (not including other franchisees.) I could see where it could be absolutely devastating and crippling to some markets losing certain guys. The Isles shocked everyone last year, but if they’d lost JT then won 20 games it’d absolutely devastate their market which can’t be good for the league. That could lead to less on the cap rise.

I’d also like them to find a way to limit these post ELC deals. I’m not sure what the answer is that the players would accept. A percentage, a capped number? What would the players need to get?

I also want them to find a way to calculate tax rates so that teams can afford to offer the same amounts based on take home pay. Florida and NYR both offer a guy a deal based on 10% of their cap should be an equal offer - Rangers shouldn’t have to offer 14% of their allotted cap to match it.

Otherwise, I think it works relatively well. Selfishly, I’d like to see a better way for teams to dump bad contracts but that would mostly just benefit your larger markets. The Rangers made their own beds... we knew Staal, Girardi, and to a lesser extent Smith and Shatty would come back to bite them.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Completely agree with the sentiment but I wouldn’t adjust for tax because where would you stop? For example financial opportunities that big market teams could provide that small markets can’t?

One thing that could be discussed is whether the 8th year is enough of the advantage or there could be more? Fully exempt a player’s salary would be excessive but maybe something like $1m off the salary for cap purposes could do the trick?

5y for UFA
8y for rights retained

It could increase the number of sign and trade deals of course but the 1 year isn't much of an advantage right now.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

There is nothing wrong with the cap, it is doing its job effectively, the league is competitive now. If you start nitpicking for taxes then you have to add in climate advantages, big market advantages, etc etc. Leave it alone and hire better GM's, they are the ones allowing it all to get out of control. For example, the Nylander things last year, Dubas should have made him sit out,it was in his tool box to do it but he didnt and so he had to pay more than he was worth. If down the road Panarin costs us too much(I don't think he will) but that will be on the GM not the cap rules. The soft cap thing is super dumb,its why I cant watch baseball anymore, you know Boston and the Yankees wont be bad for long due to the market they are a part of and they are going to spend their way out of any and all bad decisions they make and win inspite of how they operate. With the NHL, even though we are a.big market team who could spend anything basically, we have become better managed because of the cap. Right now we would have Corey Perry, Joe Pavelski and Joe Thorton on this team right now. Thankfully those days are gone.

 

[SA16]

There is nothing wrong with the cap, it is doing its job effectively, the league is competitive now. If you start nitpicking for taxes then you have to add in climate advantages, big market advantages, etc etc. Leave it alone and hire better GM's, they are the ones allowing it all to get out of control. For example, the Nylander things last year, Dubas should have made him sit out,it was in his tool box to do it but he didnt and so he had to pay more than he was worth. If down the road Panarin costs us too much(I don't think he will) but that will be on the GM not the cap rules. The soft cap thing is super dumb,its why I cant watch baseball anymore, you know Boston and the Yankees wont be bad for long due to the market they are a part of and they are going to spend their way out of any and all bad decisions they make and win inspite of how they operate. With the NHL, even though we are a.big market team who could spend anything basically, we have become better managed because of the cap. Right now we would have Corey Perry, Joe Pavelski and Joe Thorton on this team right now. Thankfully those days are gone.

He didn't pay him more than he's worth. Nylander's contract is a bargain.

 

[dapowl]

For the guys that want to buy out Shatty.... no Shatty is the worst buyout



These are the buyout costs for most UFA's (CC Capfriendly) - i dont like any of those maybe Smith is feasable.
Yes, I do know that we can trade Strome and Names. Was just for perspective.

BUYOUT				2019-20	2020-21	2021-22	2022-23	2023-24	2024-25	2025-26
Shattenkirk, Kevin				$1,483,333	$6,083,333	$1,433,333	$1,433,333
Staal, Marc				$2,900,000	$3,700,000	$1,200,000	$1,200,000
Smith, Brendan				$970,833	$3,145,833	$1,145,833	$1,145,833
Namestnikov, Vladislav				$1,333,333	$1,333,333	$1,145,833	$1,145,833
Strome, Ryan				$433,333	$533,333	$1,145,833	$1,145,833
Beleskey, Matt				$900,000	$500,000	$1,145,833	$1,145,833

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Where is the daily morning RangersBoy post?

 

[Inferno]

There has to be something better than what the NHL does currently. The product is boring.

Oh that personality has the light today....

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

For the guys that want to buy out Shatty.... no Shatty is the worst buyout



These are the buyout costs for most UFA's (CC Capfriendly) - i dont like any of those maybe Smith is feasable.
Yes, I do know that we can trade Strome and Names. Was just for perspective.

BUYOUT				2019-20	2020-21	2021-22	2022-23	2023-24	2024-25	2025-26
Shattenkirk, Kevin				$1,483,333	$6,083,333	$1,433,333	$1,433,333
Staal, Marc				$2,900,000	$3,700,000	$1,200,000	$1,200,000
Smith, Brendan				$970,833	$3,145,833	$1,145,833	$1,145,833
Namestnikov, Vladislav				$1,333,333	$1,333,333	$1,145,833	$1,145,833
Strome, Ryan				$433,333	$533,333	$1,145,833	$1,145,833
Beleskey, Matt				$900,000	$500,000	$1,145,833	$1,145,833

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

View attachment 242963

If they go the buyout route, I guess Smith makes the most sense for this year and next. Saves approx. $3.5MM this year and $1.4MM next.

Shattenkirk makes no sense with the amount of the hit in year 2 and I also believe he will rebound his value to where he can be dealt at some point this coming season.

 

[pld459666]

Aside from Kakko, I doubt we see 40points or better from:

Chytil, Howden, Kravtsov, Lias, Lemieux

Most, not all, but most of the players drafted after #5 usually take a few years to gain the traction needed to be the every day contributors needed to power a team to the playoffs and beyond.

This team is not making the playoffs in 19-20.

Maybe we finish in the same position as we did last year.

We just entered the 2nd summer of the rebuild meaning Season #2 is still 3 months away.

Time to temper expectations boys.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Rangers currently have $8MM in cap space. Beleskey and Fox to the minors plus the trades of Kreider/Names along with a Smith buyout gives and additional $14MM in cap space. That's a grand total of $22MM in space with a roster of 16.

Going on the higher side of things, Trouba gets $8MM, Buch $3.5, ADA $2MM and Lemieux $1.5. Rangers would then have $7MM in cap space with 20 players. Kaako will get the max ELC so with potential bonuses the max cap hit for him is around $3.5MM. Would leave $3.5MM in space with 21 man roster. Sign a vet #7D for sub $1MM leaves $2.5MM to make moves during the season.

You roster would look like:

Panarin - Zbad - Kravstov
Kaako - Strome? - Buch
Lemieux - Howden - Chytil
Nieves - Andersson - Fast
McKegg

Skjei - Trouba
Hajek - ADA
Staal - Shattenkirk
UFA

Lundqvist
Georgiev

 

[Ola]

Where is the daily morning RangersBoy post?

It’s probably one of his cats (he has like seven birmans) that is ill again. Once he had to spend over 24 hrs in the waiting room at the veterinary...

 

[Vitto79]

Someone’s filing for arbitration today which gives them another buyout window

Deal Smith for Gagner and buy 1 yr of Gagner out

 

[RangerBoy]

Offer sheet coming?

 

[haohmaru]

Offer sheet coming?

Wouldn’t surprise me.

 

[nyr2k2]

I don't see how MM fits with the Isles' cap situation, both where they are now and with what they have coming down the pike.